Dress Code??

[tjm190]

It’s a cultural thing- you can spout “back in my day” and try to correlate respect and your standard of dress, but an individual cultural perspective is far from universal.

 

[garysibio]

Why not get a suit and a dress? There’s cheap ones all over the place. It’s a non-issue. It seems like you are saying you don’t have an issue with “dressing nicely” as long as it fits your definition of what dressing nicely is. They set the guidelines for their parish, they use words like “please” and “should.” I seriously doubt they will kick anybody out; rather they will be taken aside and corrected after mass. Then if the person persists, he is rebelling against the authority of the priest.

I don’t look good in a dress. (Sorry)

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

You can’t really make the cultural argument because I would argue that Christians are not supposed to be a culture of this world anyway. That is irrelevant.

**What is NOT irrelevant is that they have every right to set a dress code in the parish as they see fit in order to foster respect for the Blessed Host. Nowhere did the post say that they would refuse entry, kick you out, etc. etc. That is simply the majority of you all inserting your own bias into the actual words stated.

The priest set the rules. People can follow it. You don’t like it? It’s really simple, let go of the pride and buy a suit. That simple. Or go to a different parish. Subjecting yourself to the authority of the priest is something people seem to have a serious problem with. **

“My mother weighs 200+ pounds. She uses a walker and has neuropathy, which means she can’t feel anything below her knees.”
Response: What does that have to do with anything? It’d probably be easier for her to put on a dress than pants.

“Yes, lets make sure she wears a dress or skirt to Mass. Lets turn her away because she wears pants. Now she won’t die if she wears a skirt/dress, but she would likely have a hard time keeping it down to cover herself. But I guess that would be okay, since she would at least be worthy of being part of your religion.” Response: The post didn’t say she would be turned away or barred entry, so you’re just reading words into it that aren’t there. I think the fact that you “presume” to know her dress would fly up and not cover her is a bit ridiculous as well. I can’t recall this ever happening to my knowledge, and my mother wore dresses all the time. Your sarcasm is just coming off as ignorant. As for the “religion” comment, grow up. You’re putting people down that think it’s a good idea to dress up for Church and essentially calling them elitists, then implying that you are morally superior. Recognizing the irony, yet? News flash, we are Catholic too. The difference is, I see no reason not to obey the priest on a matter such as proper wear for mass. If you can’t obey the little things, how do you obey with the greater things entrusted to you?

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

"I don’t look good in a dress. (Sorry) "

**Response: You’re not there to impress other people. It’s not an issue about what you feel, or what you want to wear. It’s a very simple issue about obeying the priest. You are all making more out of this than necessary. As for speaking about priorities, your priority at that particular parish is to obey the ecclesial authority over you, and in this case, that authority says to dresss a certain way. That’s priority, not how good you look or don’t look in a dress. The post, once again, nowhere states that anybody will be kicked out, forbidden the host, etc. You are making an unwarranted assumption and then comparing it to someone not in good standing with the Church.

Now lets flip this. Suppose you knew the dress code at this particular parish and refused to dress as asked by the Priest. Now **you are not in good standing with the Church because you are in a mortal state of rebellion towards the authorities appointed over you. It’s pride, pure and simple. You’re absolutely correct. Priorities. This isn’t a cultural argument, it is an authority arguement. The Priest wins.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

It sounds like its a parish guideline, but suspect. I haven’t had many encounters with parishes from around the world, but I have been to a few different one around my state. In my local parish it’s not uncommon to have people coming to saturday night mass right after work. People will show up in ratty jeans, sweatshirts, shorts, work clothes, you name it. Who cares? No one cares. We generally believe that it matters more than you are there than how you are dressed. I personally thing Jesus cares more about what’s in your heart rather than what is on your back.

Not everyone agrees with this though, and while I am not going to judge those that demand formal dress as being “elitist” I think they do have their reasons for demanding the things that they do. Only they know their true motives, and that is between them and God. I personally don’t agree with them because I see too many examples where God seems to give a rip less about how people are dressed. I am thinking of David dancing nearly naked in worship to God, or John the Baptist who wore basically a burlap sack. I also think that getting too focused on dress code can begin unhealthy attitudes in a church body. There really are more important things to worry about.

Be that as it may, I’d think that if you are attending a parish where they require formal dress you should show respect for their devotion and obey that. It’s their culture, it’s how they worship, and it is what makes them comfortable in their devotion. If you don’t like it, find another parish that is more laid back about dress code.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I think that every part of our disposition matters when we go to the wedding feast of the Lamb, aka the Mass. Our interior disposition matters the most, of course, but the gestures we make (kneeling, signing of the cross, etc) and how we dress also matter. If we are willing to dress up for our best friends wedding (as nearly all of us are, regardless of culture or age) then we ought to be willing to dress up for our Best Friend’s Wedding. Isn’t it hypocritical to make a big deal out of dressing up for a special occasion-- going out to a nice restaurant, a funeral, a wedding-- for a dear friend here on earth, but to consider a gathering where we receive the Lord of less importance with regard to our attire?

Do I think people should be rejected if they do not have nice clothes? Of course not! However, if they can dress up, they should (in my opinion). It is only fitting considering Who our Host is.

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

I think that people need to realize, as whiteacre said, that this is an authority issue.

As for my personal viewpoint, my parish doesn’t require a suit. I have gone to the adoration chapel in flip flops straight out of a Judo lesson. However, my parish does not require this.

I do intend to get a suit, however. People want to spout nonsense about “cultural arguments” as an excuse not to dress up, yet they would instinctively dress up for a wedding. What about the wedding feast of the Lamb? Like or not, the majority of Catholics don’t really believe the Host is Jesus. The way we dress, the way we receive communion; all these things matter. They either foster reverence, or they foster a casual attitude. Apparently the Holy Father thinks similarly, because he has people take the Eucharist on their knees, on the tongue. I hope the whole Church goes to that, because you know if you really saw Jesus in front of you, that’s exactly the position you’d find yourself in.

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

Geez prayer warrior you beat me with my own analogy…

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I think that people need to realize, as whiteacre said, that this is an authority issue.

Well, authority and respect. I would respect my fellow catholics by wearing a headcovering should I go to a mass where the parish requires it…plus I think they are SO gorgeous!!

My only concern with all of this is people getting to wrapped up on focusing on other parishoners than on Jesus. It’s an easy vice to fall into. I know that one all too well.

My biggest concern is making sure a church that requires a dress code is fulfilling their mission to reach out to others, and preach the gospel to all. I frequently invite non-catholics and non-christians to mass with me. Many times they come over in work clothes because they are out in the garage with my husband. I am thrilled just to get them in the door so Jesus can work on their hearts! I can’t imagine how hard it would be to try to get them in to mass where everyone is judging them on what they are wearing AND the fact that they aren’t catholic. It doesn’t exactly speak of Christ’s love and acceptance. Especially to those friends I invite to church that feel that they aren’t “good enough” for God.

However, dress code can do a lot of good. For an assembly of the faithful to have formal services where people dress up, play really top notch hymns on an organ, and overwhelm the senses with their best…well that’s a pretty powerful tool, and just as necessary at times. We just have to make sure we find a balance, and make sure we don’t fall into the vices of a formal or informal lifestyle.

 

[lovemybatman]

I wear jeans to church, not because I want to be irreverent, but because I live alone in a big and unsafe city and go alone on the bus to church + a bit of a walk, and it’s scary for me and I don’t want to draw attention to myself. If I had my own transportation or lived closer I would dress up more.

 

[johankrava]

Shouldn’t it be much more important to be at mass, rather than how you’re dressed?

You are right. It should be much more important to be at mass. I wear jeans because I like it. Can somebody explain why it is inappropriate to wear jeans in church?

 

[Nowhere_Man]

I haven’t attended mass in a long time and am not currently a member of a parish.
While looking online at local area Churches to join, I came across one with a dress code.

DRESS CODE - Out of respect for the Most Blessed Sacrament, and for your fellow parishioners, please observe the following standards of dress in church:
· Jeans, shorts, “flip flops” and other casual attire are inappropriate at church services.
· Women and girls must cover their heads with a suitable hat or veil (I Cor. 11:5,6,10). Chapel veils are available for loan in the vestibule.
· Women and girls must wear dresses or skirts that cover the knee completely when sitting or standing. Slacks, sleeveless tops and tight or low-cut clothing do not meet the norm of Christian modesty.
· Men and boys should wear suit coats and ties.
· Tee shirts are not acceptable; please wear a collared shirt.


I’m not writing this to knock a practice, but in my mind this is a church concentrating on the wrong things.
Shouldn’t it be much more important to be at mass, rather than how you’re dressed?
Has this become a common practice during my absence from the church?

Would this, by any chance, be St. Mary’s in Tacoma? If so, they are a group of Sedevacantists who only celebrate the Latin Mass (obviously) and are VERY traditional. I’ve been there twice for Mass and they are very nice, especially the Pastor, Fr. Trough. However they are, unfortunately not in communion with Rome (again, obviously, haha). So if you do want to see a TLM, but don’t want to go all the way to Seattle, then it would be a great place to stop, although I wouldn’t receive Communion there as it isn’t clear on whether or not they have valid Orders.

 

[Caiden]

You are right. It should be much more important to be at mass. I wear jeans because I like it. Can somebody explain why it is inappropriate to wear jeans in church?

I believe some other forum members have made some significant contributions to this. It more or less lies within a person’s motives for even arguing against a dress code. There are two trains of thought that appear on this:

1. You are concerned for the motives behind a dress code and the fair treatment and availability to worship the Lord to all (e.g., the poor who cannot afford a suit)
2. You have no suit/skirt and think it is unreasonable for you to have to dress up for worship

Those appear to be the main trains of thought (at least presented so far). What some have argued, quite well in my opinion, is that we often use either one of those (if not both) as an excuse to avoid dressing up ourselves. I think it the nail was pretty much hit on the head when someone mentioned how we have little to no hesitation dressing up for a friend’s wedding when the occasion should arise, or going out to a nice restaurant; it is a respectful thing to do. You want to “look good”, given that why would we not want to show our utmost respect to God our Father on HIS day?

Humble yourself and do something that is out of your norm, show people that you are willing to go beyond for God and dress up sometimes. Understand that the importance in it is NOT in how expensive your clothing our, but the intent in which you dress up (to show respect for God). So long as an emphasis is kept on giving glory to God dress recommendations or encouragements are fine (although I personally would be nervous to join a church with a ‘dress code’, but that’s another issue of personal matters to me).

After all, if I am well off individual and can afford a grand suite, what does that say about me? Nothing more than God being the one who has given me all that I have, I am on equal footing with anyone else irregardless of dress.

Personally, I have very little stock in clothing. I don’t quite get how “dressing up” means anything, I hold very little value in clothing. I find it a very societal thing, I just don’t get it. Personally I dress very ‘poorly’ according to most people’s standards, and I am fine with that. Fashions and trends change so frequently and without any real value I don’t give it much mind myself.

 

[garysibio]

"I don’t look good in a dress. (Sorry) "

**Response: You’re not there to impress other people. It’s not an issue about what you feel, or what you want to wear. It’s a very simple issue about obeying the priest. You are all making more out of this than necessary. As for speaking about priorities, your priority at that particular parish is to obey the ecclesial authority over you, and in this case, that authority says to dresss a certain way. That’s priority, not how good you look or don’t look in a dress. The post, once again, nowhere states that anybody will be kicked out, forbidden the host, etc. You are making an unwarranted assumption and then comparing it to someone not in good standing with the Church.

Now lets flip this. Suppose you knew the dress code at this particular parish and refused to dress as asked by the Priest. Now **you ****are not in good standing with the Church because you are in a mortal state of rebellion towards the authorities appointed over you. It’s pride, pure and simple. You’re absolutely correct. Priorities. This isn’t a cultural argument, it is an authority arguement. The Priest wins.

Uh, Nathan, I don’t look good in a dress because I’m a guy. It was a joke.

Your authority argument is lame. The priest does not have the authority to tell you what to wear. If he tries, the problem is his. No where does the Church teach that we have to obey everything a priest tells us.

 

[crazzeto]

I know many people choose to observe traditional dress codes when attending mass, and I think it’s wonderful. I’m trying to move my way there more my self actually. But no Catholic church I know of in full communion with their local diocese or Rome has ever posted that. Perhaps it might be worth looking into the first 2 suggestions, is this a pre-vatican II missal (ugh, can’t remember the official name of it!) or perhaps they’re not in communion after rejecting Vatican II.

 

[maryjk]

I’m not interested in being a follower of those that dress down to attend church.

The priest set the rules. People can follow it. You don’t like it? It’s really simple, let go of the pride and buy a suit. That simple. Or go to a different parish. Subjecting yourself to the authority of the priest is something people seem to have a serious problem with.

Response: What does that have to do with anything? It’d probably be easier for her to put on a dress than pants.

Umm, no it isn’t. It is easiest for her to wear what she does.

The post didn’t say she would be turned away or barred entry, so you’re just reading words into it that aren’t there. I think the fact that you “presume” to know her dress would fly up and not cover her is a bit ridiculous as well. I can’t recall this ever happening to my knowledge, and my mother wore dresses all the time.

I wear dresses or skirts all the times and not just to church. In fact, when I wear pants or shorts, my family comments. My dress doesn’t fly up either. But as I said my mother weights over 200lbs. Maybe you don’t know, but as a woman grows larger, it becomes more difficult to find something that fits. Dresses and skirts on a woman that size tend to ride up.And since there is much of her body she can’t feel, she might not notice.

Your sarcasm is just coming off as ignorant. As for the “religion” comment, grow up. You’re putting people down that think it’s a good idea to dress up for Church and essentially calling them elitists, then implying that you are morally superior. Recognizing the irony, yet? News flash, we are Catholic too. The difference is, I see no reason not to obey the priest on a matter such as proper wear for mass. If you can’t obey the little things, how do you obey with the greater things entrusted to you?

Yes, we are all Catholic. And as I said, I wear skirts or dresses to church and just around town, so I don’t consider people that dress up for Mass elitists. But I do think that people that jump to conclusions need to back up and chill.

And yet, ricko seems to think that those that don’t dress according to his/her standards are really Catholic.

 

[DOShea]

The problem with this is their is no one definition of “good enough.” In its place, some choose to lay out a set of criteria (suit, jacket & tie, dress of X length, etc.) but that is their own idea. If they cannot see a situation where someone might not own a suit or dress of X length and presume they will not be welcome there, that is their pride problem, not a wardrobe malfunction on the part of the person looking for a place to attend Mass.

Certainly people should dress respectfully when attending mass, but nowhere in or out of Church doctrine is that associated with neckties or dresses specifically. The larger point is modesty and respectfulness. Why on Earth a cheap used suit from the charity store surpasses a tasteful collared shirt and dress slacks is beyond anything I’ve ever head explained. Using this criteria, we’d have to “speak to” half the saints were they to show up at Mass. None of them dressed according to that criteria.

Has the Blessed Mother ever appeared to anyone, anywhere in a suit & tie? What’s wrong with her taste then?

It’s also silly to argue that no one would be thrown out; if that is so, then why post them? What happens to those who don’t meet them - they are “spoken to?” Then what? Eventually told it’s okay, or asked to leave? Somewhere I see nothing but constant harassment in that scenario.

If you want to stand at the door of access to worship and pontificate on fashion, it might to well for you to review Jesus’ reaction to those at the gate of the temple who were scamming worshipers by finding fault with their sacrificial animals and forcing them to buy one from the Temple authorities at greatly inflated price. No animal, no sacrifice, no access to God. Drove them from the temple ring a bell?

 

[jeff417]

I used to be a Sedevacantist, and that sounds verbatum what was printed on our weekly bulletins. I also know that there are sedevacantist parishes in the Seattle-Tacoma area that are affiliated with the one I attended here. If you are looking at rejoining the Roman Catholic Church, please be advised that this group will lead you down a different path.
God Bless.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

I agree with you. The person’s heart is more important than his clothes. In 1 Sam 16:7 God told Samuel not to look upon appearance as a basis for making judgements. I wonder if a homeless man came to this church, how would he be treated.

It would seem that you are taking this quote from 1 Sam out of context. For one thing, God was commanding Samuel not to assume Eliab was in good standing with God just because he looked like it; he was not passing judgement on whether clothing matters when going before the Lord in worship.

Western civilization has a long tradition of “dressing for the occasion”. To dress inappropriately for the presence of the person you are visiting (or who is visiting) is to suggest indifference for that person’s status.

While Christ loves and accepts us regardless of our appearances, it is odd that so many people think “what you wear to Mass doesn’t matter because Jesus loves you!” but will go out and buy a whole new wardrobe when they get a new job.

BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, I’m a “nice jeans” and “decent shirt” kind of guy most of the time, too.

Peace,
Dante

 

[garysibio]

It would seem that you are taking this quote from 1 Sam out of context. For one thing, God was commanding Samuel not to assume Eliab was in good standing with God just because he looked like it; he was not passing judgement on whether clothing matters when going before the Lord in worship.

Western civilization has a long tradition of “dressing for the occasion”. To dress inappropriately for the presence of the person you are visiting (or who is visiting) is to suggest indifference for that person’s status.

While Christ loves and accepts us regardless of our appearances, it is odd that so many people think “what you wear to Mass doesn’t matter because Jesus loves you!” but will go out and buy a whole new wardrobe when they get a new job.

BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, I’m a “nice jeans” and “decent shirt” kind of guy most of the time, too.

Peace,
Dante

If you don’t like 1 Sam, and I don’t think I took it out of context, how about James 2:1-7 -

1 My brothers, [1] show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. 2 For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, 3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” 4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?

One of the most faithful and orthodox Catholic priests I ever talked to, he passed away in the mid-90s, was a nudist and used to say Mass and perform wedding at the resort he belonged to.

How about we just stop making judgments about people based on the way we are dressed. I don’t care what our culture says. Our culture now thinks that marriage is temporary, sex outside of marriage is no big deal and a woman should be free to kill her unborn baby.