Drinking and Gambling

[BillBame]

I was wondering how the Church views drinking and gambling(i.e. Bingo) . Catholic seem too be looked down upon or being hypocritical by many Protestants. Often they joke if you want to go out and drink be Catholic , you can do it then go to Confession. I am not trying to sound harsh but I don’t have a good answer for them. Should we not be concerned as to how we present ourselves ?

 

[Forest-Pine]

No, no. The joke goes that the Methodists drink, the Catholics kneel and eat fish! Here is another about drinking and gambling together:

As a man was walking, a dirty and shabby looking bum asked him for a couple of dollars for dinner. The man took out two dollars and asked, “If I give you this money, will you take it and buy whiskey?”
“No, I stopped drinking years ago,” the bum said.

"Then will you use it to gamble?” the man asked.
“I don’t gamble anymore; I need everything I can get just to stay alive,” replied the bum.

The stranger asked, “Then will you spend the money on green fees at a golf course?” “Are you NUTS! I haven’t played golf in twenty years!”

The man said, “Well, I’m not going to give you two dollars…instead, I’m going to take you to my house for a terrific dinner cooked by my wife.”

The bum was astounded. “Won’t your wife be furious with you for doing that? I know I’m dirty, and I probably smell pretty bad.”

The man replied, “That’s OK!! I just want her to see what a man looks like if he gives up drinking, gambling and golf!!”

Oh, OK. I’ll be serious. I’m pretty sure the hard and fast rule of Catholicism is “nothing in excess.” If a person were struggling with alcohol or gambling, they would be counselled to not be in the near occasion of sin, but others who are perfectly fine playing games or drinking wine and are able to keep the activities in moderation are fine in doing so.

 

[Della]

BillBame:

I was wondering how the Church views drinking and gambling(i.e. Bingo) . Catholic seem too be looked down upon or being hypocritical by many Protestants. Often they joke if you want to go out and drink be Catholic , you can do it then go to Confession. I am not trying to sound harsh but I don’t have a good answer for them. Should we not be concerned as to how we present ourselves ?

Yes, we should be concerned about what kind of witness we are being before others. Catholics who gamble and drink to excess are certainly being poor witnesses because the Church views doing such things to excess as a vice.

It’s one thing to play bingo once a week and quite another to buy every lottery ticket and frequent the race track more than the jockeys, and make the casinos our second home, or of having an occasional drink with friends and coming home roaring drunk.

Of course, there are Protestants for whom any gambling or drinking is a sin, so they naturally think Catholics wrong to engage in them even in moderation. But, that is their personal hang up which no Catholic ought to be held hostage to. If we have friends who feel this way, we should explain to them that total abstinence is not proof of Christian belief, that we aren’t violating any of God’s commands, and that they should practice what they want to and let us practice the way we see fit.

 

[kaymart]

I’ve heard these comments, just simply say, A game of bingo or buying a lottery ticket or two are not sins. Using the family food money for Gambling is. Having a drink or two not a sin, getting drunk on a regular basis, drinking your paycheck, getting behind the wheel of a car is a SIN. Some people of other Religions expect us to walk around heads bowed with our Rosary in hand at all times, on our way to Confession, otherwise we are “Bad Catholic’s”. Catholic’s are allowed to have some fun and I heard a rumor…we laugh too

 

[Forest-Pine]

Of course, if your die-hard teetotaler friends or family members are coming over, it probably would not be the wisest witness to break out the mixed drinks and poker table. You do need to keep their salvation in mind as well. Some relevent scripture verses:

“whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.” (Romans 14:6)

“I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; still, it is unclean for someone who thinks it unclean.” (Rom 14:14)

“It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.” (Mt 15:11)

“Do we not have the right to eat and drink? Do you not know that those who perform the temple services eat (what) belongs to the temple, and those who minister at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? I have not used any of these rights, however, nor do I write this that it be done so in my case. I would rather die.” (1 Cor 9:3, 13, 15)

“Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.” (1 Cor 9:19-23)

“Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do. But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak. If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols? Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died. When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.” (1 Cor 8:8-13)

 

[BillBame]

Most Protestants believe the Bible doesnt say you cant drink or is it a sin, but that drunkeness is the sin. Their arguement against gambling is that it shows lack of faith that God will provide all our needs. Also I do believe that the Bible does say something about causing our brother to stumble. For me its not a guestion of sin but character.

 

[Forest-Pine]

BillBame:

Most Protestants believe the Bible doesnt say you cant drink or is it a sin

Oh, there are PLENTY of that variety. “Not a single drop of alcohol will cross these lips” type. There is a joke about that, too, but not very family friendly. The “higher” Protestants–Anglican, Methodist, etc–drink while the “lower” Protestants are definitely against alcohol. The further from Catholicism you get, the more unbending they are. SDA, Baptist, Non-Denominational, “Christian,” Assemblies of God… I’ve heard all preach from the pulpit that alcohol in and of itself is evil and sinful. Of course, you can’t lump “all” Baptists together because they have no uniting faith, much less all Protestants. I just want to point out that I know plenty of Protestants who are of this variety.

BillBame:

Also I do believe that the Bible does say something about causing our brother to stumble. For me its not a guestion of sin but character.

Perhaps you mean the 1 Corinthians quotes I listed above. You might enjoy a reading of all St. Paul’s works.

 

[Forest-Pine]

Bill, I just looked at your profile and realised you are Southern Baptist, not Catholic. Your usage of “ourselves” in your first post lead me to assume. Now I understand and will address this from a different point of view.

BillBame:

I was wondering how the Church views drinking and gambling(i.e. Bingo) . Catholic seem too be looked down upon or being hypocritical by many Protestants. Often they joke if you want to go out and drink be Catholic , you can do it then go to Confession. I am not trying to sound harsh but I don’t have a good answer for them. Should we not be concerned as to how we present ourselves ?

Let me start over with a Biblical reasoning on WHY alcohol and gambling is allowable and moderation is the norm. WIll be back shortly.

 

[Forest-Pine]

I believe that the teetotaler mentality in America comes from our strong Puritan background. There is a mentality in America that if we enjoy ourselves or have fun then we can’t possibly be good Christians. This foundational beginning of our country has pervaded the American psyche in other areas as well, such as work ethic (early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise), family values (much to our benefit), and the development of Protestant groups and their theology.

The thing is that Catholicism does not go to either extreme. We recognize that there is a time for everything.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-14:

There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
What advantage has the worker from his toil?
I have considered the task which God has appointed for men to be busied about.
He has made everything appropriate to its time, and has put the timeless into their hearts, without men’s ever discovering, from beginning to end, the work which God has done.
I recognized that there is nothing better than to be glad and to do well during life.
For every man, moreover, to eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of all his labor is a gift of God.
I recognized that whatever God does will endure forever; there is no adding to it, or taking from it. Thus has God done that he may be revered.

By keeping everything in its proper place, we are living according to the will of God, and in doing so, praising him.

There are a number of Catholic saints whom we respect who were able to find God in their everyday lives. We believe a person can “pray” or worship God through singing, dancing, washing dishes, hanging clothes on the line, bathing kiddos, etc etc etc. There is a time and place and need to also worship Him in community at Church, but we are not limited to doing so only then.

We place a great amount of weight on a person’s interior motives in determining if a sin was committed. The same exact thing might be sinful for one person and not another based on the goals and desires of the person. You saw this mentality reflected in St. Paul’s writings that I quoted above. The point is to always keep the focus on the Lord.

 

[BillBame]

Bill, I just looked at your profile and realised you are Southern Baptist, not Catholic. Your usage of “ourselves” in your first post lead me to assume. Now I understand and will address this from a different point of view.

Let me start over with a Biblical reasoning on WHY alcohol and gambling is allowable and moderation is the norm. WIll be back shortly.

Sorry didnt mean to mislead. I am not content where I am at. I am searching for answers and I am look at the Catholic Church. Its where I started. I was baptised and confirmed a Catholic. What I meant by ourselves was from a Christian perspective. I looking at the “Journey Home” and asking question. I have taught Sunday school but and having some issues in the Southern Baptist because I dont agree with some of their Doctrine. In a sense it makes me a hypocrite. I didnt want to sound accusitory, but I may have come accross that way. I am finding more and more that when I search the scriptures I agree with Catholic Doctrine, which is where my Roots are.

 

[Forest-Pine]

You might wonder what the above post has to do with drinking or gambling. The fact of the matter is that Jesus clearly walked this same line of moderation, especially when it comes to alcohol. What do the Jews use in their passover and Shabbat rituals? Alcohol. What did Jesus drink? Alcohol. What do Middle Easterners drink? Alcohol. What do Europeans drink? Alcohol. What do Catholics and Orthodox use? Alcohol. How is it that all these cultures and groups have thousands of years of history of alcohol consumption, regularly espoused in the Bible, and it is only in the last couple hundred years and mainly in the US that a mentality of alcohol being a bad witness appears? Because Protestant sects sprung up that used this as their interpretation of the Bible. The question then becomes if we have an obligation to change our behaviors, knowing that we are not required to, but in the hopes of winning these groups over for Christ, as St. Paul says he did. I believe this is a personal decision and one to be made on a case-by-case basis. Afterall, he also became like one outside the law to win them over. So does that mean we should go get drunk at the local brothel? No. We simply must shine the light of Christ, always in moderation, and always thoughtful of the image we present.

For a wonderful article on the consumption of alcohol in the Bible, you can see this short piece by Patrick Madrid here.

 

[Forest-Pine]

BillBame:

Sorry didnt mean to mislead. I am not content where I am at. I am searching for answers and I am look at the Catholic Church.

Oh, no. No problem at all. I just realised that your question was different than the one I answered. Please feel free to ask more.

 

[BillBame]

Forest-Pine:

Oh, no. No problem at all. I just realised that your question was different than the one I answered. Please feel free to ask more.

I dont have a problem with it being a part of the Euchrist, or even drinking. My concern doesnt come just from being in the Southern Baptist. I was raised by a devout Roman Catholic. Does the Church have vows similar to what Sampson vowed to let no alcholic drink touch his lips /

 

[Forest-Pine]

There are some who take actual vows into religious communities which include not drinking alcohol. They choose to do this above and beyond what the “average” person is required to do. There are others who make this promise between themselves and God. The Eastern Catholic Church also has abstention from alcohol on a regular basis during fasting days.

 

[Mordocai]

Psh, when I get to heaven I wanna have a beer with God and watch the ballgame.
No but seriously…
As much as I’d love to smoke a cigar every once in a while, I know I shouldn’t and I know I can’t. I used to smoke, and the occasions that I go back to it for 1 cigar or 1 cigarette, the temptations to addiction becomes very very very annoying. So I have to pray for immense grace just to keep my peace! So I don’t know how many chances I have with the Good Lord. So I’m thinkin I just should abstain…
But ooo it’s so nice
As for drinking, I see it as similiar but of course different.
My view is, if it was good enough for Jesus, well then it’s good enough for me.
He’d have to have had a couple drinks every once in a while to deal with those pharisees
I believe the Church’s teaching is that it is a sin to intentionally get drunk. Everything in moderation. Nothing in excess.