druids and pagans

[magisterfaust]

Been doing some research on various religions/spiritual paths. I have seen that druids/pagans/wiccans are seen as unholy blasphemers in league with Satan. Well maybe that’s a bit over the top…

WHAT IS DRUIDRY?

Druidism, or Druidry as it is often called, is for some a spiritual path, for others a religion, and for others a cultural activity.

As a cultural activity, Druid ceremonies provide part of the context and pageantry for the National Eisteddfodau of Wales, Cornwall and Brittany.

As a spiritual way or philosophy, Modern Druidism began to develop about three hundred years ago during a period known as the ‘Druid Revival’. It was inspired by the accounts of ancient Druids, and drew on the work of historical researchers, folklorists and early literature. In this way Druidry’s heritage stretches far back into the past.

Above all else, Druidry means following a spiritual path rooted in the green Earth. It means participating in a living Western spiritual tradition drawn from many sources, including surviving legacies from Celtic wisdom teachings, but embracing the contributions of many peoples and times. It means learning from archaic traditions, from three centuries of modern Druid scholarship, and from the always changing lessons of the living Earth itself. It means embracing an experiential approach to religious questions, one that abandons rigid belief systems in favour of inner development and individual contact with the realms of nature and spirit.

It’s an attitude, an understanding, an exquisitely simple and natural philosophy of living. For a great many it is a rich and ancient religion, a mystical spirituality. For others it’s simply a guiding way of life. It is absolutely open and free for anyone to discover.

Rather than being an organised religion, Druidry offers a personal individual life path that can become part of a modern urban existence as easily as a rural life. It connects us instinctively to the life-giving energies of the earth beneath the pavements, and the sky above the highest office or apartment block.

 

[Eden]

Personally, I’m not interested in venerating trees and mistletoe plants, I’ve found more meaning in worshiping their creator.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Modern ‘‘Druidry’’ is a mish mash of neo pagan beliefs and new age ‘‘fuzzy feel good’’ type stuff, thats really about it. The only written sources available on them were written by Romans and Greeks, who probably exageratted what they wrote, and likely neglected to write a great deal more.

 

[ibkc]

Modern ‘‘Druidry’’ is a mish mash of neo pagan beliefs and new age ‘‘fuzzy feel good’’ type stuff, thats really about it. The only written sources available on them were written by Romans and Greeks, who probably exageratted what they wrote, and likely neglected to write a great deal more.

Actually there are two broad groups of modern neo-pagan druids. The first (and probably largest) group is just what you describe. The second group bases their practices and beliefs on what is known about pre-Christian Celtic culture via archeological, anthropological, historical and literary sources.

 

[deb1]

Actually there are two broad groups of modern neo-pagan druids. The first (and probably largest) group is just what you describe. The second group bases their practices and beliefs on what is known about pre-Christian Celtic culture via archaeological, anthropological, historical and literary sources.

We need to alert brotherrolf to this thread. I bet he would find all this interesting.

What literary sources do we have available for the practices of Celtic and Druid religious ceremonies? I didn’t think that they wrote anything down?

 

[ibkc]

We need to alert brotherrolf to this thread. I bet he would find all this interesting.

What literary sources do we have available for the practices of Celtic and Druid religious ceremonies? I didn’t think that they wrote anything down?

There is a ton of material available via medieval Irish monks, which should not be a surprise, really. They preserved much pre-Christian mythology which not only gives us the names of Celtic gods, but also gives us a great idea of their attributes, how they may have been worshiped, and what the actual role of druids was within Celtic society - which is quite different from the romantic, 18th century poetic view of the bearded hermit. Comparative mythology and religion is a big help here too, as there are striking similarities between the culture depicted in these old myths and the culture depicted in the Rig Veda. It is thought that pre-Christian Celtic culture was structured along lines similar to the caste system in India, with the Druids a rough equivalent to the Brahmans.

It can also be mentioned that information about the druids can further be gleaned from medieval Irish and highland Scottish society. There was a position in these old societies of a kind of sacred court poet, the filidh. There is much to suggest that the filidh retained at least some of the same function as the druids, but in a Christian context.

 

[rtconstant]

Well, we do have some information on early Celtic culture but this information isn’t really Druidic mysticism. The Druids didn’t share their lore with anyone other than an initiate. Most of the celtic lore we do have is from bards who with the help of Christian monks preserved the legal, poetic and seasonal traditions of the Celts. The bards persisted for quiet awhile actually.

Now the bards were part of the druid cast but it should be kept in mind that their function was not of the priestly/shamanistic type of the druids. They simply were not privy to it. They could give observational points but the internal lore is lost.

Simply put today there are no druids and unless something major happens archeologically speaking their shamanistic path is forever lost.

Now as has been said there are those who try to recreate and celebrate to the best of their ability the old Celtic holidays and such for ancestral solidarity. I don’t think that I’d count this as anything religious one way or the other. To me that’s a community and cultural celebration.

Also I noticed wicca mentioned in the OP. Wicca has nothing to do with the druidic path. Wicca (Saxon for wise man) is a completely invented religion created by Gerald Gardner in the 1950’s.

Anyway, no I don’t consider any of this devil worship. The ancient rites are no more, the modern recreations are really just festivals, and it might be giving wicca to much credit to call it “devil worship”.

 

[brotherhrolf]

We need to establish which Druidry of which we are speaking. Modern or ancient. Modern Druidry is a “fiction” - made up “whole cloth” of invention and fantasy. The past as it ought to have been - nothing wrong with that - Brother Hrolf was a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

The ancient Druidry of the past is another story…Bards, ovates, druids and brehons. Spiritual path or societal organization?

Having had this discussion with folks over the years, we have to define from the very beginning are we talking about neo-druidism (e.g. the romanticized druidism of the recent past) or are we talking about the Druidry of the past - particularly that of Alba, Albion and Hibernia…and then, in what centuries? It is useless to speak about continental druidry since the Romans did such a splendid job of wiping it out. It survived for a time in Alba and Albion and for a time longer in Hibernia - actually a long time in Hibernia if you consider brehon law.

Accounts of the ancient Druids? Well, yes, the Irish finally did get around to writing down the Brehon laws but Druidism was an oral tradition. So, yes, at a very start, let’s hear how Druidism was passed on from its virtual destruction on the Isle of Anglesey to the 18th century as an oral tradition.

 

[ibkc]

The ancient Druidry of the past is another story…Bards, ovates, druids and brehons. Spiritual path or societal organization?

Neither. The Druids were a social class - priestly and intellectual, like the Brahmans of India.

So, yes, at a very start, let’s hear how Druidism was passed on from its virtual destruction on the Isle of Anglesey to the 18th century as an oral tradition.

Druidism wasn’t completely destroyed on Anglesey. That was when the Romans were able to break the political power the druid class held over the tribal chiefs of Britain. Christianity was introduced into Britain fairly early, and that finally killed Druidism there. Druidism lived on in Ireland and Scotland a couple of hundred more years until the advent of Christianity in those places. After that, as I said earlier, aspects of druidic practice lived on in the art of the filidh and in folklore. I agree with rtconstant that the religious and shamanistic aspects of the druids are forever gone, although we can guess with some degree of accuracy what broadly these things entailed. Archeology is a very helpful adjunct to folklore and mythology in this.

 

[IanCorrigan]

What literary sources do we have available for the practices of Celtic and Druid religious ceremonies? I didn’t think that they wrote anything down?

As a modern Druid I’ll take a shot at this.
The single source we have for the idea that Druids didn’t write down their religious ideas is Julius Caesar, who says that the Gaulish Celts wrote their own language in Greek letters, but that their Druids forbad writing down religious matters. By the time we get to the end of the Druidic religion in Ireland it’s some 500 years later, and a lot of technological change had come in Europe.

The Irish saints’ lives record various instances of the ‘burning of Druidic books’. This suggests either that latter Druids took up writing, or that the hagiographers were imitating the Book of Acts, with its Ephesus story. In any case we have reason to think that some Gaelic Druidic wisdom passed into the monasteries and ‘secular’ poetic schools of Ireland and Scotland, and from there we have one of our major sources of hints about Irish Gaelic pre-christian wisdom.

There are four basic sources that modern ‘Druidic’, or Celtic Pagan reconstructors use:
1: The comments of Greek and Roman writers who described the continental Celts and their Druidic priesthood.
2: The writings of early Irish writers, many of them monks. When you find a book of ‘Celtic mythology’ this is the main source for those tales.
3: Archeology in the various Celtic regions, which has verified and clarified many things, including providing details of the names and forms of the Gods, and examples of pre-roman Celtic language.
4: Comparative mythology, ritual and lore with other cultures in the region, and across the Indo-European spectrum. This can include later-period ‘folklore’ from Celtic regions such as Ireland, Wales, Brittany, etc.

So, we take those sources and we create rituals and meditations that in turn lead us to an experience of the Gods and Spirits. From that experience we build the relationship with the divine that is our spirituality.

There’s no question that what modern Druidic Pagans do is a reconstruction, with no provable lineage to the ancient world. However, we believe that we have been able to craft ways that would be recognized by the ancients - they’d say… “Oh yeah, I know what that is…” even if they told us we were all wrong on the details.

In the little Order in which I work, we argue a lot about how to use the very high-fallutin term ‘Druid’. For myself, I more or less function as a Druid - I lead rites both seasonal and for marryin’ and buryin’, provide poetry and song, do divination and the seer’s work (not my specialty…) and the like. I serve a growing community of dozens or more as a priest, and produce theology and philosophy on the side.

I’m not an iron-age Gael, but then you guys aren’t first-century romans, either - religions change and grow. The Old Ways were interrupted by the violence and economic coercion of the Roman conversion and its militarist expansion. Now they are returning, bringing the old Gods and Spirits back into a modern awareness.

In any case, the point is that Neopagan revival is being supported by real scholarship and creative vision - those are the very presence of divine inspiration among humans.
Ian

 

[IanCorrigan]

Simply put today there are no druids and unless something major happens archeologically speaking their shamanistic path is forever lost.

On a scholastic level I couldn’t argue - barring some miracle manuscript turning up in the piles of mouldering parchment under the Dublin colleges we’ll never know for certain what Druidic practice was like in detail.

On an experiential level I think we can do more. The Druids weren’t ‘Shamans’ in the asian/pacific sense, but they seem to have used various trance and ‘magical’ practices. These we can reconstruct, and apply directly to the symbols and remnants of Celtic cultures. In this way we can bring the function and depth of Druid mysteries into modern times, even if the details change - they’d have changed over the past 1600 years anyway.

Now as has been said there are those who try to recreate and celebrate to the best of their ability the old Celtic holidays and such for ancestral solidarity. I don’t think that I’d count this as anything religious one way or the other. To me that’s a community and cultural celebration.

Those practices are the heart of neopagan Druidry and Wicca. They are specifically religious for me and for hundreds of thousands of others. The spiritual mystery of the turning of the seasons is among our greatest lessons. Through them we worship the Gods and Spirits, and bring their blessing to the land.
Ian

 

[Swan]

As a modern Druid I’ll take a shot at this.
The single source we have for the idea that Druids didn’t write down their religious ideas is Julius Caesar, who says that the Gaulish Celts wrote their own language in Greek letters, but that their Druids forbad writing down religious matters. By the time we get to the end of the Druidic religion in Ireland it’s some 500 years later, and a lot of technological change had come in Europe.

The Irish saints’ lives record various instances of the ‘burning of Druidic books’. This suggests either that latter Druids took up writing, or that the hagiographers were imitating the Book of Acts, with its Ephesus story. In any case we have reason to think that some Gaelic Druidic wisdom passed into the monasteries and ‘secular’ poetic schools of Ireland and Scotland, and from there we have one of our major sources of hints about Irish Gaelic pre-christian wisdom.

There are four basic sources that modern ‘Druidic’, or Celtic Pagan reconstructors use:
1: The comments of Greek and Roman writers who described the continental Celts and their Druidic priesthood.
2: The writings of early Irish writers, many of them monks. When you find a book of ‘Celtic mythology’ this is the main source for those tales.
3: Archeology in the various Celtic regions, which has verified and clarified many things, including providing details of the names and forms of the Gods, and examples of pre-roman Celtic language.
4: Comparative mythology, ritual and lore with other cultures in the region, and across the Indo-European spectrum. This can include later-period ‘folklore’ from Celtic regions such as Ireland, Wales, Brittany, etc.

So, we take those sources and we create rituals and meditations that in turn lead us to an experience of the Gods and Spirits. From that experience we build the relationship with the divine that is our spirituality.

There’s no question that what modern Druidic Pagans do is a reconstruction, with no provable lineage to the ancient world. However, we believe that we have been able to craft ways that would be recognized by the ancients - they’d say… “Oh yeah, I know what that is…” even if they told us we were all wrong on the details.

In the little Order in which I work, we argue a lot about how to use the very high-fallutin term ‘Druid’. For myself, I more or less function as a Druid - I lead rites both seasonal and for marryin’ and buryin’, provide poetry and song, do divination and the seer’s work (not my specialty…) and the like. I serve a growing community of dozens or more as a priest, and produce theology and philosophy on the side.

I’m not an iron-age Gael, but then you guys aren’t first-century romans, either - religions change and grow. The Old Ways were interrupted by the violence and economic coercion of the Roman conversion and its militarist expansion. Now they are returning, bringing the old Gods and Spirits back into a modern awareness.

In any case, the point is that Neopagan revival is being supported by real scholarship and creative vision - those are the very presence of divine inspiration among humans.
Ian

Excellent post! Thanks for the great info. Can you suggest any resources?

 

[cheddarsox]

Great posts Ian!

I would like to add this, the practice of a faith brings deeper understanding and revelation. So, the modern Druids took what they had, and began to practice it, and THAT leads to greater understanding through spiritual experience.

A religion is not a static set of ideas on paper, stone, or in oral tradition, it is a dynamic practice. And the practice itself brings deeper understanding of it’s true nature and purpose.

I have certainly found that to be true in my faith. Over the years, I have come to deep understandings and had experiences I could never have imagined before. The faith has a foundation, but the real aspects are what comes out when one lives it.

So not having access to every bit of original beliefs, rituals, etc does not preclude one from having the authentic faith. One starts with what they have and in partnership with the Divine (isn’t that what religion is all about?), and through sincere and earnest practice, the rest falls into place.

This is true of all religions. People come to know them through their practice, not be reading a book about them, but by living them.

cheddar

 

[brotherhrolf]

Druidic writing? Ogham? I had that question thrown at me by a professor during my oral examination for my master’s. Ogham was for inscriptions. Ancient Druidic tradition was based upon memorization and passing the lore down to the ages verbally.

As an anthropologist and calligrapher, the only manuscripts I am aware of deal with brehon law in Ireland.

Howdy, cheddar! Long time no see! As we say down here in the South, “I don’t have a dog in this hunt”. So, I’ll make the same caveats I have made before:

I am by training an anthropologist (archaeology is one of the four branches of anthropology). I also have the credentials in history. So, I differentiate between ancient Druidism and modern Druidism. As I have asserted before, modern Druidism is a “construct” separate and distinct from ancient Druidism.

As a person of Celtic ancestry (Irish, Scot and Breton), I’ll cede to you that there are things which are inexplicable and are part of Celtic culture and folklore. I’ll cede to you that many of the traditions of my family probably have their roots in the distant past (I’m Irish doncha’ know ) - but these have been passed down from generation to generation. There are no manuscripts for these traditions.

I have no written instructions on why the mirrors in the house needed to be draped in black crepe nor why the clocks needed to be stopped at the moment the relative died. I have no written history of the visitation of the ban sidhe when my great grandmother died - only that which was told to me as a child (there’s a whole lot more to THAT story). I DO know that these traditions were common to the Irish who came here to America in Black '47.

So, we come to our modern Druids who are “reconstructing” the past. My family is profoundly Catholic and profoundly nineteeth century Irish (I make that distinction because it seems that the modern Irish have different values). What do those traditions mean?

They are not “Catholic” in that HMC does not say “You must get married with the long hand of the clock sweeping upward for good luck”. (Laugh all you want but DW and I went toe-to-toe over this 30 years ago). They exist. Those traditions certainly do exist. I am not willing, however, to construct a religion “whole cloth” based upon folk tradition.

And just to keep the record straight, I am more than aware of and have read all of the Celtic myths, legends, and heroic stories.

Sadly, I am also aware of the possibility of what can happen when explorations into that which should not be explored happens.

 

[IanCorrigan]

Druidic writing? Ogham? I had that question thrown at me by a professor during my oral examination for my master’s. Ogham was for inscriptions. Ancient Druidic tradition was based upon memorization and passing the lore down to the ages verbally.

Correct, Ogham is mainly for inscriptions, and all the actual examples we have use it that way. The written ancient source material on ogham (in the Scholar’s primer) does give examples of oghams that could be used for manuscripts, but we have no examples of such a thing.

Continental Celts wrote their own language in greek letters. We can’t say that the Irish did the same - more likely they adopted the latin alphabet. Ogham isn’t really an ‘alphabet’, like Runes, so much as it is a poet’s cypher-script, easier to inscribe than latin letters and less likely to be readable by nonprofessionals.

And again, to be clear, we have only the word of Caesar that the Druids didn’t write down their religion. A single reference in all the classical writings about the Druids. So it’s far from settled that Druidic ways were strictly oral.

As an anthropologist and calligrapher, the only manuscripts I am aware of deal with brehon law in Ireland.

Surely you know of the Book of Invasions, of the Tain, of the Dinnsenchas and the Fenian stories. All of those contain many remnants of Celtic Paganism. Then there are other bits of early medieval Irish lore, such as the Cauldron of Poesy, in which we see hints not just of mythology but of mystical understanding and personal spirituality. Do you know the Dispute of the Two Sages?

**I differentiate between ancient Druidism and modern Druidism. As I have asserted before, modern Druidism is a “construct” separate and distinct from ancient Druidism. **

We make that differentiation ourselves. I doubt there are any modern Druids who would tell you they have some unbroken link to the past. We work to make our construct less distinct from the old ways by pursuing actual scholarship on the matter, and applying that scholarship in experiment.

**There are no manuscripts for these (folk) traditions. **

Actually, many such traditions were written down by ‘folklorists’ and ‘antiquarians’ in the 17th and 18th centuries. Modern Irish families are losing track of those old ways fast here in the television age, but many of the early-modern forms have been preserved in writing by scholars of the period.

Since the whole ‘Golden Bough’ approach to folklore is pretty much out the window in modern times we try to be careful in how we interpret these later countryside customs. many come from church sources, or literary sources, or viking sources that have nothing much to do with Celtic times. Still, they provide colorful bases for rituals.

**So, we come to our modern Druids who are “reconstructing” the past. My family is profoundly Catholic and profoundly nineteeth century Irish (I make that distinction because it seems that the modern Irish have different values). What do those traditions mean? **

They mean that cultures change. The Famine drove the Irish people into the arms of the Church to a degree never before seen. With typical fiddle-burning zeal the priests did their best to cut away the remnants of the old traditions, banish the Gentry and get the people on their knees. Too bad, really.

I am not willing, however, to construct a religion “whole cloth” based upon folk tradition.

Surely not. Folk tradition is rags and remnants of religion, generally, mixed with plain superstition. Always funny to see old ways transfered to modern devices, like the upward-swept clockhand. Clocks gained a lot of magical mana right away in Europe.

But we don’t limit ourselves to the early-modern traditions, at all - in fact we’re trying hard not to be 17th century Scots or 19th century Irish. We’re modern people in modern life who really worship the Old Gods and get the blessing they offer. We use the rather plentiful, if scattered, clues in the ancient writings only enhanced by folk custom.

Ian

 

[ibkc]

As an anthropologist and calligrapher, the only manuscripts I am aware of deal with brehon law in Ireland.

Surely you know of the Book of Invasions, of the Tain, of the Dinnsenchas and the Fenian stories. All of those contain many remnants of Celtic Paganism. Then there are other bits of early medieval Irish lore, such as the Cauldron of Poesy, in which we see hints not just of mythology but of mystical understanding and personal spirituality. Do you know the Dispute of the Two Sages?

Also
The Voyage of Bran, The Destruction of Da Derga’s Hostel … there really is a lot out there for the person interested in ancient Celtic culture and religion.