Drums At Mass, YIKES!

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Saint_wannabe

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I thought that this would be the correct Forum to bring this subject up. I don’t ever remember drums being part of the traditional Mass, and I don’t understand why this idea is being incorporated. I grew up in a Parish that had the traditional organ music with the occasional choir present, and then sadly, I was away from the church for many years. I now attend a different church that is in the community that I live in now, and it has a guitar Mass. I have grown accustomed to the guitar Mass, but now drums are being incorporated and I can’t stand it. First of all, we have a drummer that apparently has no sense of rhythm and couldn’t keep a beat if his/her life depended on it. Second of all, when I hear drums, I feel like I’m in a nightclub and not at Mass. I cringe every time I hear drums being played at Mass and I feel like it is very disrespectful. Am I the only one who feels this way? Am I just being too sensitive? I brought this up to one of our singer/music directors, and she thinks the drums are wonderful. She seems to think that this is a good way to get the youth of our Parish excited about the Mass. I have gotten used to the guitar Mass, but I don’t want anything to do with drums at Mass, and I can’t see myself ever getting used to it. Has anyone grown up with this sort of thing in their Parish? How do you all feel about this? What is the Vatican’s stance on this? I know that drums play an important part in music, but do we really need them at Mass? Are we trying to compete with the mega churches out there? and if so, why? I don’t come to church so I can be entertained, I come so I can be close to Jesus in the Eucharist, and to give God thanks and praise. I’m starting to get a bit (more than a bit) long winded here, so I’ll just leave this open for comments before I start babbling & ranting some more.
 
I see nothing wrong with drums specifically, but it seems like your saying the drummer isn’t very talented. On that point I can sympathise with you. Of course i’ve also heard people doing the readings that can’t pronounce Colossians…

When I see or hear a less then professional performance by a minister at Mass, be it Music Ministry or Ministry of the Word, or even (and we’ve all seen it I’m sure) an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist that is making mistakes, I use it to remind myself that while they are not perfect, neither am I…

Cut the Music Ministers some slack… They usually improve as tey play more often.

As to the drums being the problem I don’t see that at all. I have to assume you live in a country with a heavy “Western” culture. I’ve been to Mass where the drum was the only instrament and it was very moving. Very Spiritual. and I’d bet the folks that attend that kind of Mass regularly would be horrified at the “inoppropriate” pipe organs you grew up with.

Saint Paul tells us (if we listen) that God does not play favorites. I’m sure God loves pipe organs. I’m equally sure He loves guitars, drums, banjos and fiddles.

God bless

Mike
 
You solution is simple…leave the parish!

In fairness and justice…let the pastor know why in writing…I would not ask him to change anything…just that you are leaving and why…humbly state that your spirituality is too disrupted in the current style of worship and celebration (you are implying and acknowledging that there is nothing wrong with those who like it…it just is not for you).

Also, don’t encourage anyone else to leave…but let your parish friends know what you are doing and why…don’t look for validation or sympathy…just wish them well and move on!

A pastor who are going to take another sincere and genuine look at what he is doing…based on the care of souls…(not your likes or dislikes)…he will do so…if he is less focused and less precise spiritually…he will not do anything. In other words if something is amiss…he should see it for himself and make a change based on his duties and responsibilities as a pastor.

Pax Christi
 
I think I would run out of the church!! 😃 IMHO I think only organs should be allowed during mass. I go to TLM masses so its not an issue, however on very rare occasions I have gone to the novous ordo with guitars, trumpets/horns and pianos and choir members who think they can sing but really need to come to terms that their singing ability is not their gift from God!! I can’t imagine drums during mass, that would drive me nuts. Mass is to be a time that we spend with Our Lord and assist at mass. The music during mass should be contemplative, banging on drums hardly sets the mood. I agree with you on this!
 
It’d probably help if the drummer was decent, much like if someone performing Chant could actually chant. It’s also like someone butchering Latin while celebrating the EF. In all of those cases you would find cause for distraction.

This section of the board, for the most part, will doubtless agree with you. For myself, I’m more siding with Myqyl.

Of course, context can be good when talking about these things. And context as it pertains to the copy/paste which people will soon be throwing down. What interests me is that most people don’t see the trend that the Church has gradually evolved musically, and they also don’t see that several instruments they claim that aren’t permitted have been either at some point within the history of the Church…or still are permitted.

An example/timeline of the evolution.maturation of instrumental use within the Church; In 1728 Benedict XII rebuked a couple of communities for using instruments other than the Organ. At this point we now have the following as approved instruments;
  • Organs.
Jump ahead a few years, and we have Benedict XIV, in his encyclical “Annus qui nunc vertentem” (19 February, 1749), who tolerates only the organ, stringed instruments, and bassoons. Kettle-drums, horns, trombones, oboes, flutes, pianos, and mandolins are prohibited. So at this point now we’re up to the following instruments being allowed;
  • Organs.
  • Stringed instruments.
  • Bassoons.
Fast forward some time later, in the “Regolamento” of 1884, we see that flutes, trombones, and kettle-drums are permitted “on account of the improved manner in which they are now used as compared with former times”. So now we have the following instruments allowed;
  • Organs.
  • Stringed instruments.
  • Bassoons.
  • Flutes.
  • Trombones.
  • Kettle-drums.
Over the course of just 100ish years, we’ve now seen permitted instruments increase by a nice 500% or so. This is also reflected with the composers of that era, often composing Hymns and Masses that required even more than one percussionist at times.

Then in 1903, the fellow who everyone loves to quote says *“in some special cases, within due limits and with the proper regards other instruments may be allowed, but never without the special license of the ordinary, according to the prescription of the ‘Cæremoniale Episcoporum’. As the chant should always have the first place, the organ or instruments should merely sustain and never suppress it”. *

Of note with this is;
  • It speaks of Chant, not Hymns. In fact, several documents refer and apply to Chants only and not to Hymns.
  • In a digital age, you need someone who knows how to work a sound board to mix things properly. This is no different than an Organist needs to adjust their playing style to match that of the vocalist.
  • He says it’s allowed but you need permission from the ordinary.
Now, I have yet to see a document which rescinded these use of kettle-drums and stringed instruments. Since then Music has evolved and now percussion-wise we have more than just kettle-drums. In fact, now you can have an electric drum kit which can simulate kettle-drums. Meanwhile, now we have string instruments being permitted…and that’s what a guitar is.

The use of percussion is not strictly speaking a recent event (unless 150 years of use is “recent”…?), nor is it a plague within the Catholic Church. If people don’t like it, that’s fine. But just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it inherently evil.
 
Well, there’s a difference between something like timpani in the context of a small string orchestra to accompany a mass setting by Mozart, and some dude with a drum kit accompanying a dude on guitar that makes you “feel like you’re in a nightclub,” as the OP describes. In short, no one can say that drums are absolutely prohibited, and no one can say that they’re absolutely permitted either unless we know what exactly is being done with them.

I think all we can do is take the OP’s word that for it that he finds the music secular and unworshipful, and commiserate. One nice thing about the Chicagoland area is that there are so many churches that you should easily be able to find another one not far away that offers a more reverent atmosphere.
 
MarkThompson said:
Well, there’s a difference between something like timpani in the context of a small string orchestra to accompany a mass setting by Mozart, and some dude with a drum kit accompanying a dude on guitar that makes you “feel like you’re in a nightclub,” as the OP describes. In short, no one can say that drums are absolutely prohibited, and no one can say that they’re absolutely permitted either unless we know what exactly is being done with them.

I think all we can do is take the OP’s word that for it that he finds the music secular and unworshipful, and commiserate. One nice thing about the Chicagoland area is that there are so many churches that you should easily be able to find another one not far away that offers a more reverent atmosphere.
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I really appreciate everyones opinions here whether we agree or we don’t, and thats why I posted this in the first place, so I could get some feedback on this and see if anyone else has had to deal with the same circumstance. I think that this poster (Mark Thompson) hit the nail on the head best though. If it were a bongo drum, kettle drum or something to that effect, yes it would still be foreign to me because I’m not used to it, but I think that I would be able to deal with it differently, and maybe even more objectively, but this is a drum kit, plain and simple. It is also a drummer that can’t keep a beat, and it all just comes off as very disruptive to the Mass. (for me personally) Maybe its because I used to jam in a heavy metal band and I never had previously attended a Mass with drums before, but it just rubs me the wrong way, and yes, as another poster pointed out, it comes off very unprofessional.
 
Drums at Mass? Like two posters said, leave the parish.
 
Saint_wannabe said:
I thought that this would be the correct Forum to bring this subject up. I don’t ever remember drums being part of the traditional Mass, and I don’t understand why this idea is being incorporated. I grew up in a Parish that had the traditional organ music with the occasional choir present, and then sadly, I was away from the church for many years. I now attend a different church that is in the community that I live in now, and it has a guitar Mass. I have grown accustomed to the guitar Mass, but now drums are being incorporated and I can’t stand it. First of all, we have a drummer that apparently has no sense of rhythm and couldn’t keep a beat if his/her life depended on it. Second of all, when I hear drums, I feel like I’m in a nightclub and not at Mass. I cringe every time I hear drums being played at Mass and I feel like it is very disrespectful. Am I the only one who feels this way? Am I just being too sensitive? I brought this up to one of our singer/music directors, and she thinks the drums are wonderful. She seems to think that this is a good way to get the youth of our Parish excited about the Mass. I have gotten used to the guitar Mass, but I don’t want anything to do with drums at Mass, and I can’t see myself ever getting used to it. Has anyone grown up with this sort of thing in their Parish? How do you all feel about this? What is the Vatican’s stance on this? I know that drums play an important part in music, but do we really need them at Mass? Are we trying to compete with the mega churches out there? and if so, why? I don’t come to church so I can be entertained, I come so I can be close to Jesus in the Eucharist, and to give God thanks and praise. I’m starting to get a bit (more than a bit) long winded here, so I’ll just leave this open for comments before I start babbling & ranting some more.
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Saint…let me first start off by saying I really dont qualify as want is considered a “Traditional Catholic”. On the other hand, I am certainly not a progressive or modern one, either.

I think I fall into the category of what V11 was hoping/trying to achieve before all the abuses set it.

Drums during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass would make me cringe to be sure.
 
Sacrosanctum Concillium says
other instruments may be admitted for use in divine worship. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use; that they accord with the dignity of the temple, and that they truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.
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and
In mission lands there are people who have their own musical tradition, and this plays a great part in their religious and social life. For this reason their music should be held in proper esteem and a suitable place is to be given to it.
and
The Church recognizes Gregorian chant as being specially suited to the Roman Liturgy. Therefore … it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.
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The Constitution of the Liturgy also says…
The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn Liturgy.
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Although I cannot locate the document, there is one that says “instruments with a secular purpose are not allowed in the mass” (not the exact phrase). So, no, since the (I don’t live in the US, but there is not difference) USA is not a “mission land”, and american traditional instruments are not being used in this case, no. Drums are not allowed in this case. I am all for the Organ, I’m a TLM’er 👍
God Bless :signofcross::byzsoc:
 
LoyalViews said:
Sacrosanctum Concillium says

and

The Constitution of the Liturgy also says…

Although I cannot locate the document, there is one that says “instruments with a secular purpose are not allowed in the mass” (not the exact phrase). So, no, since the (I don’t live in the US, but there is not difference) USA is not a “mission land”, and american traditional instruments are not being used in this case, no. Drums are not allowed in this case. I am all for the Organ, I’m a TLM’er 👍
God Bless :signofcross::byzsoc:
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I can see why some feel this way, but I’ve seen ELO use pipe organs in concert, so shouldn’t this rule exclude their use as well?
 
The main, or perhaps only, problem, is the distracting nature of the poor playing of any insrument. The psalms indicate use of percussion in ancient Jewish worship, but say to play “skillfully” to the Lord. I’ve forgetten the Psalm and verse, but I know it’s in there.

I hope I do not come off as defensive, but I am a drummer and have played at hundreds of Masses over the last 9 years. A person may have good or bad personal associations with any number of instruments, or other things available to the senses during Mass. For example: If one burned incense in his bedroom as a teenager to hide the smell of marijuana from his parents, he might be reminded of drug use during Mass when incense is used, much as our original poster is reminded of a nightclub by the drums he hears.

The director of music at that Mass has the responsibility of ensuring the quality and reverence of the music at Mass. Perhaps he or she could practice with an aspiring drummer until they are capable of playing skillfully and reverently at Mass.

I am aware that the idea of certain instruments being played during Mass is extremely foreign and distasteful to some people. However, many people I’ve encountered are brought into deeper experiences of worship at Masses with a “full band” music ministry. I am aware, too, that what we live by as Catholics is not experience and feeling, but rather the revealed Truth contained in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Teaching Authority of the Church. I simply see enough evidence in these sources to permit use of just about any instrument during the liturgy. A deeper concern of mine is the lyrical content of songs that are sung at Mass. 🤷
 
Is there another Mass you can go to at this same parish that doesn’t have the drums?
 
saskatoon said:
I can’t imagine drums during mass, that would drive me nuts.
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You realize, of course, the piano has drum-like movements too, don’t you? But I’ll agree with you, drums can drive one nuts. I heard them a couple of times during the Palm Sunday readings and didn’t find them helpful one bit.
 
doanli said:
Is there another Mass you can go to at this same parish that doesn’t have the drums?
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I think this problem is now solved anyway. After going to a 10:30 AM Mass last Sunday, and having so many distractions besides the drums going on, that I actually almost stood up and walked out of Mass, (If it wasn’t for my wife stopping me.) we have now decided as a family, that were going to start attending the 8:00 AM Mass instead.
 
Myqyl said:
I can see why some feel this way, but I’ve seen ELO use pipe organs in concert, so shouldn’t this rule exclude their use as well?
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Well, the Organ was used in the Mass before it was used in concerts, making it originally, a sacred instrument. (From what I know).
 
I think I would run out of the church!! IMHO

That is toooo funny!!! Thank you for sympathizing friend.
 
It seems to me that the “modern” celebration of the Eucharist is intended to distract, entertain and otherwise amuse the congregation rather than adore the Lord! We do not have drums at the Mass I attend; we have a choir, pipe organ, piano, flute and occasionally an orchestra. They do have drums and guitars at the youth Mass but I avoid that Mass. I have pleaded with our pastor to give us just a few minutes of silence during and after communion to allow private, respectful prayer and thanksgiving, no luck.

Other distractions during Mass include the usual procession of latecomers right through the Gospel, misbehaving brats banging toys/keys on the pews and eating Cheerios, wailing infants and the usual procession of kids heading for the restrooms or elsewhere all during Mass and then there are the slamming doors of those leaving right after communion! I’m glad I have some quiet time to pray the rosary at home because church is no longer conducive to prayer.

Takes a lot of patience to attend Mass these days!
 
Saint_wannabe said:
Second of all, when I hear drums, I feel like I’m in a nightclub and not at Mass…
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Funny… I grew up going to Guitar Mass, which included drums. Whenever I go to a nightclub I feel like I’m at Mass. 😛

Maybe stay out of nightclubs? 😉
 
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