Drunkeness and Catholics

[firstmode]

Hello!

I am a protestant and I think all the protestant denominations are ridiculous in saying that it is wrong for alcohol to be consumed.

BUT

I know and have known many Catholics that seem to think it is ok to get Tipsy, a little drunk, or very drunk, etc.

What is common with Catholics that are devout?

 

[Trishie]

Drinking to excess is wrong, drinking where judgement is impaired is to open oneself to sin and to likelihood of endangering oneself or another person both spiritually and physically. If a Catholic becomes ‘tipsy’ or drunk that is sinful.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

2290: “The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.”

Just for the record, the Church also pronounces regarding drug abuse in the next paragraph, which also throuws light on the Church’s attitude to any substance abuse.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

 

[JPUSC]

I think the American Protestants come from a puritanical background, so they interpret things differently. Maybe that’s why some Protestants have a “7th Heaven” image, if you know what I mean.

If you take a look at Catholic regions like Ireland, Italy, Latin America, etc…there is a more relaxed attitude. For many, it is a part of their culture. I know that it is normal to drink wine during meals for some Italians. I think this was the norm until the Protestants misinterpreted it. The apostles did get drunk, you know.

These men are not drunk as you suppose, for it’s only nine o’clock in the morning.
Acts 2:15

Jesus didn’t have a problem with alcohol. In fact, at the Wedding feast at Cana, he made them some wine after his mother asked Him to!

I read an article that when airport security looked through Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto’s suitcase, they found a Bible and a bottle of whiskey. At a Knights of Columbus (Catholic fraternal organization) meeting, I noticed a whole table of liquor for the members to enjoy after the meeting, haha…sweet.

I remember that Simpsons episode where they showed “Catholic Heaven” as a fun place where everyone was dancing and getting drunk while in “Protestant Heaven” people were more boring, playing a game of croquet.

najo.multiply.com/video/item/1/The_Simpsons_-_Catholic_Heaven_vs_Protestant_Heaven

Now, I’m not saying you should become an alchie, but I do think some of my Protestant friends are a little uptight.

http://gott-welt.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/papst.jpg

Happy St. Patrick’s Day, by the way. :yeah_me:

 

[redrosetea]

Hello!

I am a protestant and I think all the protestant denominations are ridiculous in saying that it is wrong for alcohol to be consumed.

BUT

I know and have known many Catholics that seem to think it is ok to get Tipsy, a little drunk, or very drunk, etc.

What is common with Catholics that are devout?

I think you are making a blanket statement, there are a billion of us you know…I don’t drink at all and know many catholics who don’t

I don’t think you can conclude that all Catholics are like the ones you know

I suspect some Protestants are sneaky drinkers but I don’t think that most probably are

 

[ConallCernach]

I
Jesus didn’t have a problem with alcohol. In fact, at the Wedding feast at Cana, he made them some wine after his mother asked Him to!

That is a better example than the one you gave from Acts. Pretty sure the one from Acts has nothing do to with alcohol, but with the Spirit and the day of Pentecost.

Pax

 

[redrosetea]

If people weren’t supposed to drink why did Christ use wine ? Because He was a Jew, and Jews drank…and some even got drunk …The apostles were accused of being drunk at Pentecost…Christ’s first miracle was turning water into wine, because the guests had finished off what the host supplied

Note Jesus didn’t say you drunks, you have had enough, he gave them more to drink

 

[AaronK88]

I think drinking in excess is very bad. I’ve been extremely drunk a few times in my life, and really it isn’t worth it. Getting a buzz is the way to go.

I don’t know the moral implications of getting extremely drunk, but anything in excess usually leads us into sin and temptation, so we want to try to avoid these things.

 

[Daedelus76]

I grew up Methodist and nobody drank, at least not the ministers and most men would at best drink a beer once in a while. Welch’s Grape Juice and grape jelly is a Methodist invention- grape juice in communion and so forth. In the Mediterranean world alcohol was a big part of the culture and people drank alcohol in relatively large quantities by our standards. Alot of the time the wine was cut with water.

Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism usually take a negative stance against alcohol. Sometimes in some Buddhist sects, the rules are bent, like in Japan where people like alcohol and there’s a less juridical approach to morality. Tibetan/Vajrayana Buddhists will sometimes bend the rules too. Still, the only “enlightened gurus” I can think of that drank were often accused of having a dark, abusive side, or beings fakes. I go to a meditation group and it’s amazing the number of people there that have family members that were alcoholic or are recovering alcoholics themselves. I think when people use alcohol to run away from their problems it’s wrong. OTOH, I’m not sure you can categorically say “alcohol is bad”, but I definitely think it has a dark side.

In modern mechanized societies, I don’t see how alcohol consumption blends with our culture that is dependent on having motor control and clear thinking. But then, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have never handled alcohol very well at all- it usually makes me feel like garbage to drink anything more than a very small amount. Maybe you can get used to the effect, but in anything more than moderation it tends to increase cancer and liver disease. My dad is dealing with minor liver diseases because he drank a few glasses of wine every day and he took statin drugs and surprise, started getting jaundice and fatigue, he had a blood test and he has liver damage.

 

[Pug]

Devout Catholics are a diverse group. But, my experience with your typical active Catholic at my parish is that most of them are willing to have a beer at a party. Whereas, in a few Protestant groups, there will never be any type of alcohol at a party. I haven’t noticed any particular tendency to drunkenness, though, at my parish. A beer or glass of wine is one thing, drunkenness is another, and is wrong. Since someone already posted a Catechism reference, I will provide one from Sacred Scripture.Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[1ke]

I think drinking to excess is a maturity issue, not a denominational phenomenon.

 

[BRZ]

I really think that it is a sin to make a habit of drunkenness. I drink maybe once a month with my friends and I do get drunk but I don’t make it a habit. Is that really sinful? Or is it more the habit of drunkenness that is sinful?

 

[firstmode]

I think the American Protestants come from a puritanical background, so they interpret things differently. Maybe that’s why some Protestants have a “7th Heaven” image, if you know what I mean.

If you take a look at Catholic regions like Ireland, Italy, Latin America, etc…there is a more relaxed attitude. For many, it is a part of their culture. I know that it is normal to drink wine during meals for some Italians. I think this was the norm until the Protestants misinterpreted it. The apostles did get drunk, you know.

Jesus didn’t have a problem with alcohol. In fact, at the Wedding feast at Cana, he made them some wine after his mother asked Him to!

I read an article that when airport security looked through Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto’s suitcase, they found a Bible and a bottle of whiskey. At a Knights of Columbus (Catholic fraternal organization) meeting, I noticed a whole table of liquor for the members to enjoy after the meeting, haha…sweet.

I remember that Simpsons episode where they showed “Catholic Heaven” as a fun place where everyone was dancing and getting drunk while in “Protestant Heaven” people were more boring, playing a game of croquet.

najo.multiply.com/video/item/1/The_Simpsons_-_Catholic_Heaven_vs_Protestant_Heaven

Now, I’m not saying you should become an alchie, but I do think some of my Protestant friends are a little uptight.

http://gott-welt.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/papst.jpg

Happy St. Patrick’s Day, by the way. :yeah_me:

richenvironmentnet.org.uk

What do you think the Bible meant when it lists Drunkeness along with sins such as homosexuality? I am just wondering your interpretation as I have always heard that it is someone who lives a practicing lifestyle of drunkeness, such as going out every Saturday night and getting drunk, a component of their life that they see no error in and practice it even if the Bible has verses saying it is wrong. Much like a homosexual that has sex with other homosexuals and just concludes that it is ok for him to do this.

Aren’t people who live in perpetual sin like that on a list of people who will not see the kingdom of Heaven? I am not talking about getting drunk by mistake, I meant perpetual sin. Thanks for the time to answer my questions, I just want to make sure I know the proper Catholic position on this stance before I judge the actions by the scriptures.

 

[firstmode]

I think you are making a blanket statement, there are a billion of us you know…I don’t drink at all and know many catholics who don’t

I don’t think you can conclude that all Catholics are like the ones you know

I suspect some Protestants are sneaky drinkers but I don’t think that most probably are

I would definitely not conclude that real Catholics are anything like all the ones I have met in my life or I would be too disgusted to visit a Catholic Discussion Board.

That is why I am here, to see real Catholicism, if I based it off all the Catholics I have met or were close friends then I would think the whole Catholic Church doomed

 

[firstmode]

If people weren’t supposed to drink why did Christ use wine ? Because He was a Jew, and Jews drank…and some even got drunk …The apostles were accused of being drunk at Pentecost…Christ’s first miracle was turning water into wine, because the guests had finished off what the host supplied

Note Jesus didn’t say you drunks, you have had enough, he gave them more to drink

My first post is very clear, I see no problem with consuming alcohol and I find issues with protestant denominations that do.

I understand all your examples, I guess I am confused by the word drunkenness in the Bible then.

 

[firstmode]

Many of you guys may think I am asking a loaded question, I assure you I am not.

I just want to understand any situation before i judge that situation according to scriptures.

Please understand, I spent the better part of 5 years getting drunk 1 to 2 days a week with my friends. I used to party all the time, I was not a alcoholic, just drank socially and enjoyed getting drunk. This was before I dedicated my life to follow in Christ’s foot steps and seek holiness in every way. So please do not feel that I have no understanding of what it means to have a buzz, be tipsy, be drunk, and be stupid drunk. Sometimes when I have had a rough day every couple of months I get the temptation to be drunk as I know it feels fun and makes me smile and laugh, I just do not do it. My wife has never been drunk and was never a drinker. I have been married for 5 years and have not gotten a buzz or anything from alcohol in 6 and a half years. (When I started dating my wife )

A protestant does not see levels of drunkenness, when you are physically and mentally affected in any way, such as a buzz affects you, it is considered drunkeness. As a former drinker, I completely agree with this statement as when I would get a buzz my inhibitions would lower and I would be more prone to be less holy which could include, Crude Joking (the reason I do not want anything like the Simpsons, family guy, etc as they are not biblical and regularly make fun of Christ), lustful thoughts, anger, lying, jealousy, etc. I think having a buzz brings all of these sins forward and takes away your control over yourself.

So let me just ask devout Catholics, it seems to me the catechism says that getting a buzz is wrong (according to my description above) and I am just wondering what a devout Catholic thinks about this? One thing that is clear to me is that the Catechism is 100 clear that getting drunk is against the church and I know that drunkenness is a Mortal sin, so I would assume a devout Catholic does not take it lightly.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Your Brother in Christ,

Firstmode

 

[firstmode]

BTW I know that getting drunk by mistake here and there does not equal DRUNKENNESS.

I am just confused because drunkenness seemed to be a part of the Catholic lifestyle as seen in some of the posts on this thread so far and from all the Catholics I knew or know.

 

[VanillaBean]

My motto is: drinking is not a sin unless we make it one.

In other words, drinking is not a sin until you allow it to hurt yourself (including your body) or other people.

 

[Pug]

I really think that it is a sin to make a habit of drunkenness. I drink maybe once a month with my friends and I do get drunk but I don’t make it a habit. Is that really sinful? Or is it more the habit of drunkenness that is sinful?

I know the Baltimore Catechism is a little old, but perhaps its lines may be of help to you:

Q. 305. What kind of a sin is drunkenness?
A. Drunkenness is a sin of gluttony by which a person deprives himself of the use of his reason by the excessive taking of intoxicating drink.
Q. 306. Is drunkenness always a mortal sin?
A. Deliberate drunkenness is always a mortal sin if the person be completely deprived of the use of reason by it, but drunkenness that is not intended or desired may be excused from mortal sin.
Q. 307. What are the chief effects of habitual drunkenness?
A. Habitual drunkenness injures the body, weakens the mind, leads its victim into many vices and exposes him to the danger of dying in a state of mortal sin.

See, just regular drunkenness is a mortal sin. In addition, there is habitual drunkenness, which weakens the mind, etc. The reason they give is that it is a form of gluttony and deprives a person of right reason and thinking. As we say in modern lingo, it impairs our judgment and our motor skills.

It is not good to chose to lose these things just to lose them. Of course, lesser problems with drunkenness could be venial sins, but sin is always dangerous and a bad idea. We should strive to avoid sin, even the ones that seem lesser.

(I just saw your newer post, firstmode, and if I can think of anything useful, I will try to answer.)

 

[roselily]

What do you think the Bible meant when it lists Drunkeness along with sins such as homosexuality? I am just wondering your interpretation as I have always heard that it is someone who lives a practicing lifestyle of drunkeness, such as going out every Saturday night and getting drunk, a component of their life that they see no error in and practice it even if the Bible has verses saying it is wrong. Much like a homosexual that has sex with other homosexuals and just concludes that it is ok for him to do this.

Aren’t people who live in perpetual sin like that on a list of people who will not see the kingdom of Heaven? I am not talking about getting drunk by mistake, I meant perpetual sin. Thanks for the time to answer my questions, I just want to make sure I know the proper Catholic position on this stance before I judge the actions by the scriptures.

Ah, brother in Christ, Bible also has say: in Ecclesiastes 9:7-10 " Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has long ago approved what you do. Let your garments always be white; do not let oil be lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that are given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which your toil under the sun…"

 

[JPUSC]

What do you think the Bible meant when it lists Drunkeness along with sins such as homosexuality? I am just wondering your interpretation as I have always heard that it is someone who lives a practicing lifestyle of drunkeness, such as going out every Saturday night and getting drunk, a component of their life that they see no error in and practice it even if the Bible has verses saying it is wrong. Much like a homosexual that has sex with other homosexuals and just concludes that it is ok for him to do this.

Aren’t people who live in perpetual sin like that on a list of people who will not see the kingdom of Heaven? I am not talking about getting drunk by mistake, I meant perpetual sin. Thanks for the time to answer my questions, I just want to make sure I know the proper Catholic position on this stance before I judge the actions by the scriptures.

When you drink excessively that it becomes an occasion of sin, such as doing lewd acts, cursing, hurting others, damaging yourself as your body is a Temple of the Holy Spirit(e.g., liver damage, addiction), then it’s wrong.

As anything that is in excess, drinking excessively and gluttony can be wrong. Galatians 5:19 lists drunkeness along with sins of impurity, so homosexual acts are not singled out. All sins of the flesh are displeasing to God.

It is bad to be an alcoholic, and some people unfortunately use alcohol to escape their pain and problems. This is a misuse of alcohol. For some, this leads to broken families, violence, abuse, etc., so yeah…it is a sin to abuse alcoholic substances. Not to mention, it could do some real damage, healthwise, in the long term.

However, I think some Protestants take it too far by condemning alcohol outright. I mean, some of them even replace wine with grape juice in their communion services, for goodness sake.

See:

saintroseoflimayouth.blogspot.com/2007/11/question-about-catholic-teaching-on.html

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=22913