Drunkeness and Catholics

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Our Lord clearly drank enough to be accused of being a drunkard by his enemies. Couldn’t have happened if he was a teetotaller, or nearly one 🤷
 
firstmode said:
As a former drinker, I completely agree with this statement as when I would get a buzz my inhibitions would lower and I would be more prone to be less holy which could include, Crude Joking (the reason I do not want anything like the Simpsons, family guy, etc as they are not biblical and regularly make fun of Christ), lustful thoughts, anger, lying, jealousy, etc. I think having a buzz brings all of these sins forward and takes away your control over yourself.
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You are describing a loss of control leading to more sin. My response to this is to avoid it like the plague. For the “right” person, the very first drink could be a serious problem. They ought never take any casual drink. If you know it will lead you to behaviors that are not in keeping with life in the Spirit, do not do it. Why would you? There is no reason to have a drink if you know from the past that you are likely to tell a lie, boast, be angry, etc. Drink some plain orange juice instead. It is usually available.

You yourself will need to judge how to behave. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your conscience. You seem to be hinting, though, that you already know you ought not drink. It might not be the same answer for another. For them, a drink might not represent any foreseeable risk.
 
Pug said:
You are describing a loss of control leading to more sin. My response to this is to avoid it like the plague. For the “right” person, the very first drink could be a serious problem. They ought never take any casual drink. If you know it will lead you to behaviors that are not in keeping with life in the Spirit, do not do it. Why would you? There is no reason to have a drink if you know from the past that you are likely to tell a lie, boast, be angry, etc. Drink some plain orange juice instead. It is usually available.

You yourself will need to judge how to behave. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your conscience. You seem to be hinting, though, that you already know you ought not drink. It might not be the same answer for another. For them, a drink might not represent any foreseeable risk.
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Ok, so it seems clearly defined by the majority in this thread:

The “High” or “Buzz” that you get by drinking alcohol is not sinful at all.

I am not here to condemn, but to learn, please trust me on this, I have an occasional beer here and there, I enjoy the taste. I am going to just post some Dictionary.com definitions below and let me know if you agree with the definition and define if they are a sin:

Drunk
   /drʌŋk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [druhngk] Show IPA
–adjective
  1. being in a temporary state in which one’s physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated: The wine made him drunk.
buzz
1   /bʌz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [buhz] Show IPA
–noun
b. a feeling of slight intoxication.

buzzed (bŭz) Pronunciation Key
v. buzzed, buzz·ing, buzz·es
Slang
  1. A state of pleasant intoxication, as from alcohol.
in⋅tox⋅i⋅ca⋅tion
   /ɪnˌtɒksɪˈkeɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tok-si-key-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
  1. inebriation; drunkenness.
high
   /haɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahy] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, adverb, -er, -est, noun
–adjective
Slang.
a. a euphoric state induced by alcohol, drugs, etc.
 
Pug said:
I know the Baltimore Catechism is a little old, but perhaps its lines may be of help to you:

See, just regular drunkenness is a mortal sin. In addition, there is habitual drunkenness, which weakens the mind, etc. The reason they give is that it is a form of gluttony and deprives a person of right reason and thinking. As we say in modern lingo, it impairs our judgment and our motor skills.

It is not good to chose to lose these things just to lose them. Of course, lesser problems with drunkenness could be venial sins, but sin is always dangerous and a bad idea. We should strive to avoid sin, even the ones that seem lesser.

(I just saw your newer post, firstmode, and if I can think of anything useful, I will try to answer.)
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So in your Catholic opinion, someone who gets intoxicated by a drink on purpose is causing a mortal sin?

I agree with this, it seems what the scriptures teach.
 
JPUSC said:
I:rotfl: At a Knights of Columbus (Catholic fraternal organization) meeting, I noticed a whole table of liquor for the members to enjoy after the meeting, haha…sweet.
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Since liquor is really in a whole other class of drink than wine when it comes to the amount of alcohol content, you are pretty much guaranteed, at least the majority of people, to fall into a state of intoxication after a rather small amount.

For instance, if you drink a glass of whiskey of the same amount that you would have in a glass of wine, most would probably be intoxicated within about 10 minutes of finishing the glass.

(Some may not because they are used to being intoxicated and have raised their tolerance)

So this intoxication by Liquor (you have to assume that with a table full of liquor bottles that at least one person got inebriated) is not a sin?
 
Forgot this one, is this definition a sin?

in⋅e⋅bri⋅ate
   /v. ɪnˈibriˌeɪt, ɪˈni-; n., adj. ɪnˈibriɪt, ɪˈni-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. in-ee-bree-eyt, i-nee-; n., adj. in-ee-bree-it, i-nee-] Show IPA verb, -at⋅ed, -at⋅ing, noun, adjective
–verb (used with object)
  1. to make drunk; intoxicate.
 
firstmode said:
Since liquor is really in a whole other class of drink than wine when it comes to the amount of alcohol content, you are pretty much guaranteed, at least the majority of people, to fall into a state of intoxication after a rather small amount.

For instance, if you drink a glass of whiskey of the same amount that you would have in a glass of wine, most would probably be intoxicated within about 10 minutes of finishing the glass.

(Some may not because they are used to being intoxicated and have raised their tolerance)

So this intoxication by Liquor (you have to assume that with a table full of liquor bottles that at least one person got inebriated) is not a sin?
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It was a room full of old people, so I doubt anything sinful happened. I didn’t stick around long, so I don’t even know if they touched it. Besides, I suppose it’s a guy thing to have a few drinks with your buddies.

I’ve had like six screwdrivers in a night, and they didn’t do a thing to me. I’ve also had a few shots, and still I was fully aware of everything. I was probably buzzed, but that was it. :rotfl:
 
I added emphasis
firstmode said:
So in your Catholic opinion, someone who gets intoxicated by a drink on purpose is causing a mortal sin?
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I’m not sure if you are asking something subtle with that word, or if it is just a random word. So I’ll offer clarification. 🙂 They may well be doing a mortal sin right there by choosing to get drunk. It is not just about what they do later. Even if getting drunk doesn’t end up *causing *them to do something additional later on, it still could be a mortal sin to have chosen to get drunk. It is like driving drunk. Even if you get home without having hurt anyone, you still sinned by getting behind that wheel.

I think getting intoxicated on purpose, merely to be impaired, is a sin. The level of sin involved would vary, depending on the usual sorts of factors that Catholics apply to sins, but indeed, it could well be a mortal sin. You are talking about deliberately getting impaired, though, and not just being tempted into having too much delicious wine. Do you see the difference? One is probably a lesser fault/sin of liking a taste too much, the other is not about the taste at all, but is directly about getting buzzed/drunk/impaired/etc. By the way, I am not talking about if you are on a field of battle and you need help with pain control, and morphine is at hand. That is not what is meant here.

You gave various definitions, but for me, I choose not to drink enough to become what I would called “buzzed”. That word for me implies that I am not my usual self in the head. Such a state is undesirable to me, and I would not seek it. Other people maybe just mean they are relaxed or something, I don’t know. I’ll let them describe it for them. Buzzed for me implies diminished functioning. It means my level of conversation won’t be the same. (not that it is super to begin with :p)
 
Pug said:
I added emphasis

I’m not sure if you are asking something subtle with that word, or if it is just a random word. So I’ll offer clarification. 🙂 They may well be doing a mortal sin right there by choosing to get drunk. It is not just about what they do later. Even if getting drunk doesn’t end up *causing *them to do something additional later on, it still could be a mortal sin to have chosen to get drunk. It is like driving drunk. Even if you get home without having hurt anyone, you still sinned by getting behind that wheel.

I think getting intoxicated on purpose, merely to be impaired, is a sin. The level of sin involved would vary, depending on the usual sorts of factors that Catholics apply to sins, but indeed, it could well be a mortal sin. You are talking about deliberately getting impaired, though, and not just being tempted into having too much delicious wine. Do you see the difference? One is probably a lesser fault/sin of liking a taste too much, the other is not about the taste at all, but is directly about getting buzzed/drunk/impaired/etc. By the way, I am not talking about if you are on a field of battle and you need help with pain control, and morphine is at hand. That is not what is meant here.

You gave various definitions, but for me, I choose not to drink enough to become what I would called “buzzed”. That word for me implies that I am not my usual self in the head. Such a state is undesirable to me, and I would not seek it. Other people maybe just mean they are relaxed or something, I don’t know. I’ll let them describe it for them. Buzzed for me implies diminished functioning. It means my level of conversation won’t be the same. (not that it is super to begin with :p)
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You are right, Math Master Pug.
 
firstmode said:
Since liquor is really in a whole other class of drink than wine when it comes to the amount of alcohol content, you are pretty much guaranteed, at least the majority of people, to fall into a state of intoxication after a rather small amount.

For instance, if you drink a glass of whiskey of the same amount that you would have in a glass of wine, most would probably be intoxicated within about 10 minutes of finishing the glass.

(Some may not because they are used to being intoxicated and have raised their tolerance)

So this intoxication by Liquor (you have to assume that with a table full of liquor bottles that at least one person got inebriated) is not a sin?
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I dunno…I remember this Christmas I drank 2 beers, had 3 shots of moonshine, a jack and a coke, a shot of Jamison, and a shot of tequila within about 90 minutes. Now…here’s the scary part…not at that time or any time after did I feel or behave drunk. I didnt even feel buzzed. Those who did not drink noticed no difference in my behavior either. It had no effect on me! Yet, I can recall a time a few weeks back when I drank one cosmopolitain and was soon fast asleep on my friend’s sofa. 🤷

My general litmus test is my ability to recite the entire Ave Maria in Latin 😃 If I can’t do it, there’s a problem…If I can do…then someone upstairs is looking after me and has hopefully got her Son’s attention for me.

But seriously, once it affect how you act by inclining you to do things you shouldn’t do and normally would not, it is time to stop.
 
Pug said:
About my conversation? 😃 Just teasing. Nice to run into you again, roselily.
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Math Master, May God bless you,
promise me to see my post and help me with Math if I have question,
but I hope I can deal with it myself.
 
First Mode, I think you do have it figured out. Drinking an alcoholic beverage in and of itself is NOT sinful. However, it you drink to excess, just as if you eat to excess, that is sinful, even more so than eating. You hurt yourself when you eat too much, you hurt others without your awarness when you drink too much.
Also if you know you have a problem with drinking, even if you drink one it is a sin. Alcoholism is an illness, but there is a cure and you are responsible for taking control of your Self and healing,and then staying away from the temptation.

A Buzz with the guys, is not so bad, just dont go further, and dont drive after even part of one drink. Every drink will affect you different biologically. Lives are too precious to endanger with an automobile.

The whole issue revolves around responsibility and self control.
 
mommybug47 said:
First Mode, I think you do have it figured out. Drinking an alcoholic beverage in and of itself is NOT sinful. However, it you drink to excess, just as if you eat to excess, that is sinful, even more so than eating. You hurt yourself when you eat too much, you hurt others without your awarness when you drink too much.
Also if you know you have a problem with drinking, even if you drink one it is a sin. Alcoholism is an illness, but there is a cure and you are responsible for taking control of your Self and healing,and then staying away from the temptation.

A Buzz with the guys, is not so bad, just dont go further, and dont drive after even part of one drink. Every drink will affect you different biologically. Lives are too precious to endanger with an automobile.

The whole issue revolves around responsibility and self control.
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Well, as long as you’re not over the legal blood alcohol limit you should be fine to drive. And I don’t think feeling a ‘buzz’ is sinful if we’re so little affected otherwise that we are legally capable of driving, no?
 
Drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of Heaven. I guess the definition of drunkard is debatable. I’m a recovering alcoholic. One drink is too much and 100 not enough. If I choose to go out and drink (even one) I am commiting a mortal sin.
 
Lux_Caelum said:
Drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of Heaven. I guess the definition of drunkard is debatable. I’m a recovering alcoholic. One drink is too much and 100 not enough. If I choose to go out and drink (even one) I am commiting a mortal sin.
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Exactly!
 
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