Dull married life

[DAML72]

No person wants to have sex when it hurts. Your wife probably avoids any kind of intimate conversation other than the “basics” (kids, house, etc.) because she thinks you are going to want it to lead to sex, which hurts her. It would not be a pleasant feeling to think your husband’s affection and esteem for you are hinged on whether or not you can have sex. I’m sure she IS depressed…it would be hard not to be when you can’t be physically intimate with your husband without pain.

My suggestion would be…pick a quiet and stress-free moment, and tell her that you understand sex is painful, and you do not want her to ever feel like you “expect” anything. That your love for her is not contingent on sex. That you want to feel close to her by hugging, holding hands, spending fun times together instead. And then prove it by treating her with tenderness, planning some fun outings (so you aren’t in the car and asking “So what do you want to do?”), etc. Tell her going to a show, or out for coffee, or a walk and holding her hand are enough for you. If you do these things and she sees that you are sincere, maybe more will happen because she feels unconditionally loved and safe. If you are only doing it to “get something” don’t look for that to happen. If private matters were common knowledge, you would probably be surprised at the number of couples who have little sexual activity in their relationships, and still have good relationships.

^^^ This ^^^

 

[on_the_hill]

Nobody has mentioned attending a Marriage Encounter. Would she be agreeable to that?

Nope. As far as she’s concerned, she’s where she wants to be. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with stress of having relatively young children who are very involved in their activities.

It’s hard to follow the advice of “make time for yourselves” when you’re tired. Which leads back to what she likes to do to relax: lay on the sofa and read books.

She is taking an anti-depressant med–ostensibly to lower her stress levels and blood pressure–but I think we both know that it’s made her easier to live with.

As far as any other kind of counseling–no way, no how. Never. Won’t even discuss it.

 

[on_the_hill]

Labour often fails to progress because of the way birth is managed in the western world, particularly the US. Hence why the US has one of the highest C section rates in tithe world. Anyway, that’s whole 'nother rabbithole. Suffice it to say, the whole thing makes me so angry for the men and women who suffer so much because of it.

Not to be-labor the point …but it was in a Catholic hospital, in addition to the regular staff she was attended by a doula, and the ob/gyn who made the decision to do the c-section is from a practice with several Catholic doctors who are known for their pro-life position.

Five minutes after he said, “We have to do it,” she was prepped and in the OR.

Her labor went a total of 63.5 hours.

 

[Xantippe]

Many anti-depressants are well-known libido-killers. It’s one of the best known side-affects of many of them, for both sexes. Definitely check with the doctor to see if a different regimen could help.

on_the_hill said:

“Her labor went a total of 63.5 hours.”

Sounds long enough to me.

 

[haedron]

Nope. As far as she’s concerned, she’s where she wants to be. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with stress of having relatively young children who are very involved in their activities.

It’s hard to follow the advice of “make time for yourselves” when you’re tired. Which leads back to what she likes to do to relax: lay on the sofa and read books.

She is taking an anti-depressant med–ostensibly to lower her stress levels and blood pressure–but I think we both know that it’s made her easier to live with.

As far as any other kind of counseling–no way, no how. Never. Won’t even discuss it.

The meds could be a huge part of this.

A common side effect of anti-depressants, SSRI’s in particular, is decreased libido. Just something that might be a contributing factor. They can also cause a certain amount of ambivalence towards everyday experiences, making you feel sort of “numb” for lack of a better word.

Don’t get me wrong, I know they are helpful for a lot of people - I’m not suggesting there is anything wrong with taking them. But just be aware that these are drugs that alter your brain chemistry and the side effects are very real for a lot of people. Might be something to consider asking the Dr. about.

 

[mommamaree]

Not to be-labor the point …but it was in a Catholic hospital, in addition to the regular staff she was attended by a doula, and the ob/gyn who made the decision to do the c-section is from a practice with several Catholic doctors who are known for their pro-life position.

Five minutes after he said, “We have to do it,” she was prepped and in the OR.

Her labor went a total of 63.5 hours.

And this is precisely why I am so thankful for modern obstetrics. That is an insane amount of time to labor, and a C-section is life-saving in such situations. It does have unfortunate drawbacks sometimes, which you and your dear wife have experienced. It sounds like you two have gone through so much and have sacrificed so much for each other and for your children. It also sounds like your dear wife is very tired. I go back to what I said before, that meeting her where she is right now is what you need to do. Reassure her that you understand her fear and that you will not expect relations just because you want to be affectionate. I don’t understand the hesitation she has about counseling, because I really think a marriage counselor could help you work through some of her fears and your concerns. But maybe she is already condemning herself so much that she is afraid of hearing more condemnation from a complete stranger.
Based on what you say, I am getting a picture of someone who is really really hard on herself, and is so afraid of being vulnerable. Does that sound about right? If so, she really needs to not hear that married life is boring right now. This time of having young children will pass, and her medical problems may improve or she may get treatment that helps. I am sure she wouldn’t have chosen this trial anymore than you would have. So do whatever you can to avoid becoming adversaries. Make sure that you are both on the same team.
I am so sorry for the trial you are enduring. It must be very hard. Stay close to Jesus, draw closer to your wife. I will pray for you today. God bless.

 

[on_the_hill]

Many anti-depressants are well-known libido-killers. It’s one of the best known side-affects of many of them, for both sexes. Definitely check with the doctor to see if a different regimen could help.

The meds could be a huge part of this.

This all started long before she started the meds. Life got a little better when she did.

 

[Xantippe]

How about a short family trip of some kind? And involve her in the planning, of course, so you see eye to eye on such questions as how many meals out, how much fast food, what kind of schedule, etc. (Our family is just back from two nights at Great Wolf Lodge, and if you have any tweens, it’s really ideal for that age group–you can just turn them loose in the water park or on various quests (caution–expensive!!!). Some of the GWL locations have babysitting, so it would be possible to hit the water slides together. Our party had some bickering over meals and schedule, but the kids want to go back, and my husband is looking forward to being able to leave the youngest watching cartoons with the bigger kids in a few years so he and I can sneak off and do water slides together.)

It sounds like your wife is in a big rut, and it might be helpful for her to have a change of pace. A night away every six months or so might be really good for her. Also, would she benefit from going to see family or far-away friends all by herself for 2 or 3 nights?

Also, maybe it’s time to pull the plug on some of the kids’ activities (at least temporarily)? I know it’s easy to forget that the wedding vows were not, “And I take you, Suzie, to be the person to take our future kids to ballet, soccer, and whatever other activities we can afford while still managing the payments on a large SUV.” Maybe it would be more beneficial to your family if the energy your wife spends on that stuff were to be redirected toward a class for her or small part-time job (if she’s not already working)?

 

[mommamaree]

I second the Great Wolf Lodge family vacation idea. We have been a couple times and are planning a trip at the end of next month as our end-of-school-year celebration. It is relatively carefree as far as family trips are concerned (WAY easier and more laidback than Disney). Even just a couple nights away, where the days are full of fun, might lift her spirits. They even have baby pools and slides if you have any really little ones.
I think, even if GWL is not near enough to you, a weekend getaway as a family is a great idea. In my humble opinion, I also think you might need to be firm with your wife about sticking to plans and purposefully planning some fun things for the future. You mentioned she vetoed the coffee date idea after you two had already set out. I think, in the future, this should not be an acceptable thing. It is hurtful to you and puts you in a really difficult situation. I think, for dates or outings, unless she is sick or can offer an acceptable fun alternative, she should be expected to come along and try to have some fun. And she should also be expected to be helpful in planning future fun family trips, even if you spearhead the planning. Again, I don’t want to presume, but I really think that your love for her and your history of trying to be a good husband and father calls for some cooperation from her and some willingness to let you take the lead. It sounds like she is powerless to get herself out of this rut, so it is up to you to drag her along for some fun things, until she gets used to a new normal of being more active.
One more thought, is she sleeping well at night? If she is losing a lot of sleep due to frequent night waking with the children, or if she suffers from insomnia, it will be nigh impossible to change her motivation to be fun or romantic during the daytime.

 

[LongingSoul]

I am familiar with Men Alive, which takes seriously in its Catholic ministry as lay men the need to be great husbands and more importantly great fathers, especially to their sons. Many young men do not get the example they need to be good family men. It is a great work.

I must admit that many women have taken a prima role thinking that they can ignore their vows and still expect all things to be tikkity do in their marriages. Not the majority of course, however, this problem will not go away unless answered from both sides.

I agree. But when a person is raising an issue about a relationship, one of the things they have to accept is that they can’t change another person. Guilt tripping may work for a short time but it doesn’t work in the long term because it creates a resentment that can snowball. We can take the time as an opportunity to work on ourselves because in that way, we aren’t held back by the victim mentality.

 

[DAML72]

Many anti-depressants are well-known libido-killers. It’s one of the best known side-affects of many of them, for both sexes. Definitely check with the doctor to see if a different regimen could help.

on_the_hill said:

“Her labor went a total of 63.5 hours.”

Sounds long enough to me.

Me too! (Not that OP should have had to even bring this up in the first place - it’s none of our business why the doctors decided to do a C-section )

 

[Galbin]

Not to be-labor the point …but it was in a Catholic hospital, in addition to the regular staff she was attended by a doula, and the ob/gyn who made the decision to do the c-section is from a practice with several Catholic doctors who are known for their pro-life position.

Five minutes after he said, “We have to do it,” she was prepped and in the OR.

Her labor went a total of 63.5 hours.

I’m not saying she didn’t need intervention in this case, since it definitely sounds like she did. Of course obstetrics can be life saving. However, she may have been able to labour naturally for the other births afterwards, and thus not end up with scar tissue and pain. There ares studies showing that the hospital environment can actually slow down labour, sadly.

I’m not sure what a Catholic hospital or pro-life environment has to do with c-sections though. Even the most ardent pro-abortion medical facilities seem to place the life of the baby above the short and long term health of the mother. My phsyio specalises in women’s health and she deals with women who have been extremely damaged by medical interventions in birth, yet their suffering remains hidden in society. In a nutshell, few women sue hospitals for damage done to them during birth, but many hospitals have been sued over damage to babies during birth. Therefore, hospitals tend to place the well-being of the babies over the health of the women. It’s like that in my part of Europe anyhow, and it sounds like it is the case in the US too. That’s what I get from my interaction with American ladies on other forums, anyhow.

Liked that pun by the way. It sounds like your poor wife has been through the mill…

 

[Xantippe]

Galbin,

I think that the American ladies you talk to represent a sizeable minority, but not an actual majority.

That’s a subject for a different thread, of course.

 

[LittleRose]

Food sensitivities are a real pain in the rear end. Having these and other painful health issues, I can relate to anyone who feels better just curling up at home with a book the way your wife does. When you don’t have a lot of energy to spare, and are afraid of pain, and have a stressful lifestyle, “excitement” begins to lose much of its luster. Sometimes you long for a dull moment, just so you can feel some peace and relief. Does your wife feel like this? I don’t know. Only she can tell you.

On that note, it sounds like the two of you need to communicate very clearly with each other about how you receive messages of affection. The suggestion of reading The Five Love Languages is a good one. Reading it together might be a good way to get a conversation started. From what you have posted about the things she has said to you, it sounds like maybe she isn’t happy but doesn’t know what to do about it, sees that you are too, and feels even more overwhelmed by that. She may just not know what to do and feels helpless. If you’ll pardon this little tidbit of pop-psychology, maybe a part of her feels like driving you away will somehow make things easier for both of you. Again, all we can do here is speculate. Only your wife can tell you if any of our speculations are accurate, or just more internet sludge.

Marriage encounter is a good idea too, assuming the retreat organizers can handle her dietary restrictions. If they can’t, she can probably just look forward to a weekend of being sickened by the food, which will mostly be counterproductive to your needs.

A an ob/GYN who specializes in surgical NaPro technology might be able to address the scar tissue problem that is contributing to the painful intercourse problem. I’ve heard lots if stories of women who have had standard issue obstetric surgery having to go to NaPro doctors to get adhesions removed later. The ACOG isn’t big on preventing scar tissue during surgery, since they don’t worry much about preserving fertility (the thought that some of us might want to have more than 2 kids doesn’t seem to enter their calculations. The result of this is a knowledge gap for many of the physicians they train. :banghead: Catholic, pro-life doctors are great, but Catholic doctors who understand NaProTechnology are better, in my experience. (That’s a topic for another thread entirely!). They are specially trained in the removal and prevention of pelvic scarring.

A NaPro doc may also be able to find a way to get her off the antidepressants (some people do really well on them, while for others the “cure” is as bad as the original problem). If you have access to such a doctor, and if your wife wants to look into getting another opinion on her various issues, this could be a good option.

I hope things get better. Virtual hugs to both of you!