Dumb prayers said at Mass

[basinite]

A couple of weeks ago I was visiting a parish and during the Mass they prayed;

“That all Christian denominations faithfully live out their “OWN” faith traditions.”

Hmmm………Does this mean they were asking God that all Fundamentalists do a better job teaching that the Church is the “Whore of Babylon”, or that we worship Mary? Or maybe that Evangelical Protestants be more faithful in their belief that the Host is not truly the Body of Christ and Catholics are worshiping bread? Or that God increase Lutherans in their faith tradition that we are saved by faith alone? What a dumb prayer to offer to God during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. So much for praying that Protestants abandon their errors and return to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus Himself founded.

About six months ago at a different parish in a different state they prayed;

“That there be an increase of the SPIRIT of Vatican II in the Church.”

What a joke. Like we need more “spirit of Vatican II” in the Church.

Both of these prayers took place at Novus Ordo parishes during the part of the liturgy were one of the laity goes up and reads prayers and the rest of the laity respond with “Lord hear our prayer”. I think this part of the Novus Ordo Mass is called “the prayers of the faithful”? Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

My question is how are these prayers chosen? Who picks what intentions are offered to God? I have a hard time believing the Vatican approved of this nonsense.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Maybe they are talking about Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who need to live according to their own traditions. Many Popes have spoken about the importance and urgency that the Eastern traditions be preserved.

 

[basinite]

Maybe they are talking about Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who need to live according to their own traditions. Many Popes have spoken about the importance and urgency that the Eastern traditions be preserved.

They specifically said “all Christian Denominations”, which I would understand to include Protestants.

 

[blue]

I’m part of a ministry in my parish that write the prayers of the faithful for mass. Once written they are checked and rewritten ( if necessary by the priest or appointment thier of ) before being used. Thier are prewritten suggestions and a parish can write thier own. These look like poor judgement, not thought out ones or personal agenda. Blessings

 

[Newbie2]

A couple of weeks ago I was visiting a parish and during the Mass they prayed;

“That all Christian denominations faithfully live out their “OWN” faith traditions.”

Hmmm………Does this mean they were asking God that all Fundamentalists do a better job teaching that the Church is the “Whore of Babylon”, or that we worship Mary?

I doubt it.
Or maybe that Evangelical Protestants be more faithful in their belief that the Host is not truly the Body of Christ and Catholics are worshiping bread?

Probably not.

Or that God increase Lutherans in their faith tradition that we are saved by faith alone?

Probably not.

What a dumb prayer to offer to God during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. So much for praying that Protestants abandon their errors and return to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus Himself founded.

About six months ago at a different parish in a different state they prayed;

“That there be an increase of the SPIRIT of Vatican II in the Church.”

What a joke. Like we need more “spirit of Vatican II” in the Church.

Both of these prayers took place at Novus Ordo parishes during the part of the liturgy were one of the laity goes up and reads prayers and the rest of the laity respond with “Lord hear our prayer”. I think this part of the Novus Ordo Mass is called “the prayers of the faithful”? Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

My question is how are these prayers chosen? Who picks what intentions are offered to God? I have a hard time believing the Vatican approved of this nonsense.

I think you’re reading too much between the lines.

There is an “outline” of what to include in the prayers of the faithful, but the specifics may be different from parish to parish. In our parish, the deacon writes them.

 

[Cat]

I agree that some of the prayers are kind of swishy-fluffy.

But in regards to THIS prayer: “That all Christian denominations faithfully live out their “OWN” faith traditions”-- this is a GOOD prayer that all of us should consider adding to our prayers.

It’s a code, a secret code to say something very controversial without coming out and saying it directly and offending people. But all of us who came out of Protestantism know what the “code” means and we’re very grateful for the prayer and ask that the Lord will bring it to pass quickly.

Here’s what this prayer means to me, as an ex-Protestant.

MANY Protestant denominations, especially the Mainlines (Lutheran, Reformed, Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, etc.) have utterly abandoned their traditional teachings in favor of New Age or liberal teachings that are evil and lead people to hell.

First, many (not all) churches in these denominations have abandoned their traditional theology; e.g. instead of teaching a literal, physical resurrection of Jesus our Lord from the dead, the churches will teach that the “spirit of the teachings of Jesus Christ about love and brotherhood” are alive and well in all of us who remember him. He didn’t really rise from the dead, but as long as we remember him, his ideals are alive.

That’s just one example that I have actually heard preached in a Congregational church by a pastor recently.

Secondly, many (not all) churches in these denominations have abandoned their traditional teachings about social issues; e.g., these denominations include statements in their Statements of Faith that condone abortion, homosexual marriage, co-habitation, etc…

When one looks at the history and tradition of the mainline denominations, it becomes obvious that these churches started out teaching good, basic, Biblical Christian truths that Catholics can accept, too (literal resurrection of Jesus, abortion is a sin, etc.). But in the last few decades, these denominations have moved away from these truths and have allowed themselves to become enamored of this world and the false teachings of this age. To put it bluntly, they are teaching lies.

There are groups of people–very SMALL groups of people–in these denominations that are working very hard to try to restore their churches back to their traditions and Biblically-based teachings. In the United Methodist Church, this group is called “the Confessing Movement,” and these people take a beating from all their “liberal” church people who call them “intolerant” and “racist” and “chauvinistic” and “literalists” and “out-of-date.” But the Confessing Movement continues to promote traditional Methodism, in which
abortion is condemned as sin and the Bible is held up as the Word of God.

So it is appropriate to pray for the return of these denominations to their “faith traditions.” Oh, Lord, haste the day when the mainline denominations once again teach the truth about the resurrection of Jesus, the evil of abortion and other sinful practices, etc.!

Also, to a certain extent, many of the non-mainline denominations have strayed from their original Biblically-based teachings and are caught up in worldly practices that have led to compromise of their faith. E.g., many of the evangelical churches still teach a good, basic Christianity, but they have de-emphasized the “difficult” aspects of the faith. In many of these churches, controversial issues like financial stewardship, foreign missions, divorce, co-habitation, homosexuality (practice of), and abortion are ignored or mentioned only in the most general sense. Instead, the emphasis is upon “abundant living” and “praise and worship.” Many worship services are scripted, choreographed “entertainments” featuring a dynamic speaker on a video feed, a man or woman who has no connection with the people of the church and is not in any way their “pastor.”

I could go on and on about the state of evangelical churches, since this is the tradition that my husband and I came out of. I could talk about an emphasis upon “psychology” and science. I could talk about “emerging” churches that are picking and choosing elements of Catholicism to insert into their Protestant worship services. I could talk about “needs based” churches that offer gyms and coffee cafes instead of Bible studies and prayer meeting. I could talk about the “dumbing down” of evangelical churches and the lack of good, solid, systematic theology classes and Sunday schools that actually teach the people anything solid about the Bible. I could talk about the rise of “media-friendly personalities” that lead the Church through charm and talent rather than from a sense of calling by God, and teach flawed theology based solely on their own interpretation rather than on the knowledge of Biblical scholars past and present. Finally, I could talk about the misnomer of the name “evangelical” for churches that have stopped supporting missions to nations outside of the United States, choosing instead to keep all their offerings for their own community and spend it on sound equipment, bookstores, new gathering rooms, buildings, youth centers, etc.

We are saddened to see our evangelical churches become “businesses” or “social centers” and we would pray for a return of these churches to their “faith traditions.” As Catholics, you can criticize these churches because they don’t teach Catholic theology, but remember–lots of converts like me and my husband apparently learned enough in these churches to be able to hunger and thirst for Jesus and His Kingdom . We came to the Catholic Church THROUGH our Protestant faiths. So don’t be so quick and glib to criticize them. Please pray for the return of Protestant churches to their “faith traditions.”

 

[paperwight66]

Brilliant post, Cat.

I feel great gratitude for the week by week Scripture readings and wonderful. learned sermons I experienced in my Anglican church when I was growing up, a hundred times more rewarding than the homilies I have to sit through now I am a Catholic.

It shouldn’t be forgotten that reading the Bible is stressed in the Protestant faith tradition, and how can that do harm? Are we Catholics so fearful that our Faith will be exposed as a fraud if the Bible is read?

Of course we can pray that all Christian denominations are renewed in their faith traditions. The nearer we all draw to Jesus, the quicker will our paths converge.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Brilliant post, Cat.

I feel great gratitude for the week by week Scripture readings and wonderful. learned sermons I experienced in my Anglican church when I was growing up, a hundred times more rewarding than the homilies I have to sit through now I am a Catholic.

It shouldn’t be forgotten that reading the Bible is stressed in the Protestant faith tradition, and how can that do harm? Are we Catholics so fearful that our Faith will be exposed as a fraud if the Bible is read?

Of course we can pray that all Christian denominations are renewed in their faith traditions. The nearer we all draw to Jesus, the quicker will our paths converge.

Catholics are now being encouraged to read the Bible with the caveat that some passages require Church tutelage to be fully understood from the Catholic perspective. I have no problem with that so I purchased a Catholic Study Bible and was immediately informed that this or that Study Bible was more accurate, more Catholic etc. Almost makes one want to throw up his hands and give up! Being a Catholic should not be this difficult!

 

[Cat]

Catholics are now being encouraged to read the Bible with the caveat that some passages require Church tutelage to be fully understood from the Catholic perspective. I have no problem with that so I purchased a Catholic Study Bible and was immediately informed that this or that Study Bible was more accurate, more Catholic etc. Almost makes one want to throw up his hands and give up! Being a Catholic should not be this difficult!

When I was Protestant, it was not unusual for us to study the Bible from at least four different translations or paraphrases all at once. I usually used (and still do) New American Standard, King James, Today’s English Version (Good News) and the Living Bible (a paraphrase). A lot of my friends used (and still use) New International, but I hated that translation and still hate it now that I’m Catholic.

I also loved (and still love) the Phillips translation of the New Testament.

We would attend Bible studies, and often the passages under consideration would be read out of several translations.

Different translations and paraphrases of the Bible are not meant to confuse us or make our faith difficult. They are meant to help us develop a broader understanding of the Bible and get to know Jesus Christ better.

Do you insist on only listening to one priest, always? Of course not. You might prefer a certain priest over other priests, but you will manage to glean something out of every priest that you hear.

 

[seanflynn]

I agree with the OP that if we are going to pray for the practices and faith of non-Catholic Christians, that we pray for their complete acceptance of the Truth and full communion with the Church. God can make that happen just as easily as He can get them to adhere to their traditional faiths.

And, yes, I’ve always heard of these prayers being called “The prayers of the faithful,” or simply “the petitions,” or “the intentions.”

I do have a question for our original poster, though: What is a Novus Ordo parish, and how can you tell? Do they have written on their markee “St. Joseph the Worker Novus Ordo Catholic Church” or something along those lines? In my diocese we have CFCs: Catholic Faith Communities.

Back to answering questions.

There are usually five categories of prayer, in a specific order. I thnk this is pretty close: First, pray for the Pope and/or the Church. Second is the world or your country and its leaders. Third is the sick or suffering (in general, or you can specify people with a particular condition like war, aids, drug addiction, etc.) Fourth is the parish or local community. Fifth is the deceased (generally or by name). Then there is usually a moment for the silent prayers of all the faithfull gathered at the Mass.

Hope this helped.

 

[seanflynn]

Being a Catholic should not be this difficult!

Why not, Bob?

I ask, because Jesus told us to take up our cross and follow Him. I was never told it would be easy. I don’t mean to be harsh. If your exclamation was in jest, I’m sorry for blowing it out of proportion. If it was in frustration, I hope to comfort you by saying that if finding good study bibles were easy, something else would be hard, and you’d be called to suffer through that instead. That doesn’t sound too comforting, come to think of it. Sorry. Just offer up your frustration and unite your sufferings to the cross. Even the suffering that comes at the hand of well-meaning bible-study know-it-alls and compassionless CAF guys like me.

 

[laszlo]

In my faith

• Vatican II is the XXI Ecumenical council of the Roman Catholic Church, and no one but the pope or a subsequencet Ecumenical council with agreement of the pope has right to criticize it. It is good thing to pray for implementing the true spirit of the XXI Ecumenical council, e.g. the contol of the Apostolic See over the Liturgy

In my opinion

• other religions exist according to the will of God, and it is better if the live according to the principles of their faith which is common with ours in the Creeds and the moral principles; that to live out the what Astarte, Baal, and Moloch represented, the lust, the power and the greed. Our enemies are the servants of those principles not other religions. Other religions are not perfect, but neither are we.

God, and only God is the judge, and the suggestion that we know good and evil (Gen 3:5) is from the Adversary.