"dumbed down" translation to be replaced Pentecost Sunday 2011

[Canto]

Surprisingly fair article from the Oz.

theaustralian.com.au/news/features/fresh-embrace-of-everlasting-salvation/story-e6frg6z6-1225869540589

In Australia, the new mass text will be introduced next year, probably on Pentecost Sunday, after an extensive education process…

“The previous translators seemed a bit embarrassed to refer to angels, sacrifice and perpetual virginity,” Pell says, before heading out at 8am to spend a day talking to students at Catholic schools in Sydney.

“They went a bit softly on sin and redemption.”

This version does not. Instead of confessing they have sinned “through my fault”, priests and people will be admitting they have sinned “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault”…

Pell and Mark Coleridge, Archbishop of Canberra and Goulburn, and a highly qualified scripture scholar who chaired ICEL’s Roman missal editorial committee, emphasise that changes in the congregation’s responses have been kept to a minimum compared with the extensive changes in the wording for priests.

As a whole, the new translation has “a different cadence”, Pell says. “It is powerful, dignified and beautiful, and people will grow to love it.”…

Coleridge agrees, pointing out that more than 80 per cent of the prayers date back more than 1000 years. Some, like the Kyrie Eleison (Lord have mercy), were written in Greek during the first two centuries of the church. “It is a rich mosaic taken from different centuries,” he says. “It has a different idiom and is rhetorically and theologically superior.”

Pell is unconcerned if people initially find such wording, with its emphasis on the sacred and the transcendent, a bit daunting. He compares the mass text to a good children’s book in the sense that it will stimulate thought and broaden mass-goers’ knowledge…

1. IN MASSES FOR THE DEAD:
   Now: Remember (name) whom you have called from this life. In baptism he (she) died with Christ: may he (she) also share his resurrection.

New: Remember your servant (name) whom you have called from this world to yourself. Grant that he (she) who was united with your Son in a death like his, may also be one with him in his resurrection.

*Note: *there is one small error near the end on the behold the Lamb of God bit.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Thanks be to God!, the “Domine non sum Dignus” has been rescued! The text is back to the original scriptural text.

Thank you, Jesus!

Thank you, Holy Spirit!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

excerpt from article:

"Before receiving communion, for example, one of the congregation’s responses is “Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof but only say the word, and my soul shall be healed.” Pell says the present version, “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed” lost the richness of the scriptural reference, which is drawn from the response of the centurion in St Luke’s Gospel, as Christ approached his house to heal his dying servant.

One of the most controversial changes is the wording of the consecration, which now says that Christ’s blood will be “poured out for you and for many” instead of all, as stipulated at present.

Pell says that while Christ died for everyone, the new translation, which adheres to the official Latin wording pro multis (for many), reinforces the point that individuals – like the two thieves on the crosses on either side of Christ on Calvary – are free to chose or refuse God’s mercy and eternal salvation.

---

I looked up the Latin, and found this neat article:

vultus.stblogs.org/2006/09/domine-non-sum-dignus-ut-intre.html

Excerpt:

In the Gospel, the centurion, a pagan, shows us with what dispositions we are to receive the Lord into our hearts. In every Mass, the Church repeats the centurion’s words. In the classic Roman Rite the Domine, non sum dignus, the centurion’s prayer is repeated three times as the faithful beat their breasts.

My father’s generation grew up hearing the English translation of a popular Catholic hymn composed in German in 1777 (O Herr, ich bin nicht werdig) and based on today’s Gospel text and on Matthew 11:28. That too was a kind of meditatio.

O Lord, I am not worthy
That Thou should’st come to me,
But speak the words of comfort,
My spirit healed shall be.

Oh, come, all you who labor
In sorrow and in pain,
Come, eat This Bread from heaven;
Thy peace and strength regain.

Soon, with the corrected and revised translation of the Mass, we will be using a text faithful to the Latin of the Roman Missal and closer to the words of the centurion: “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.”

This is yet another example of the lectio divina of the Church. The Church, hearing the centurion’s words, repeats them, and in repeating them comes to make them her own prayer at the moment of Holy Communion. She discerns in them just the right dispositions for the reception of Holy Communion: humility, faith, confidence, and the desire to be inwardly healed and saved from “the point of death” (Lk 7:2).

 

[WatchingMedia]

No date has been announced by our US Bishops for 2011 yet.

I have read the changes on the USCCB web site. They are more beautiful and more reverant, and more accurate in translation from the Latin.

Why did you use the term “dumbed down” in your Title?
I agree with your Cardinal Pell as you have stated it. From what we know of your Cardinal in the US, he is a good Cardinal and sticks to the teachings of the Church.

All Catholic Masses should be the same anywhere in the World.
It will be a good refresher for all Priests.

I intend to purchase a Roman Missal in 2011 when the changes are printed as soon as I can get one in large print.

Pray for our Pope, all Bishops, and all Priests.

 

[Timothysis]

Coleridge agrees, pointing out that more than 80 per cent of the prayers date back more than 1000 years.

But the mantra on the Traditional Catholicism Forum is that the Pauline Mass was “made up” 40 years ago…

 

[MarkThompson]

But the mantra on the Traditional Catholicism Forum is that the Pauline Mass was “made up” 40 years ago…

… by Protestants and a Freemason.

 

[mary_bobo]

I look forward to the changes.

 

[ProVobis]

They don’t have to wait to use the Mass as it was promulgated…IN THE BEAUTIFUL UNCHANGING LATIN.

Why not, we’re experts now.

 

[corsair]

Ill be watching with a sharp eye on how the “new” new Mass evolves. Until then I think I’ll just keep going to the EF.

 

[malphono]

Ill be watching with a sharp eye on how the “new” new Mass evolves. Until then I think I’ll just keep going to the EF.

I’ll see you at the EF (well, I will if I ever get to the PNW again ).

 

[japhy]

I too am looking forward to this new translation. At the moment, I’m writing about the prayers of the priest in the new translation. Lots of enlightening research will hopefully pay off as a catechetical resource for the average Catholic.

 

[CWBetts]

Ill be watching with a sharp eye on how the “new” new Mass evolves. Until then I think I’ll just keep going to the EF.

I see that the traditionalists stubbornly refuse to accept the Pauline Mass, no matter what form it takes. Instead of being optimistic about the much better translation, they remain enamored with the (in their eyes) the superiority of Latin over all other languages, because, will, its Latin.

 

[Timothysis]

I see that the traditionalists stubbornly refuse to accept the Pauline Mass, no matter what form it takes. Instead of being optimistic about the much better translation, they remain enamored with the (in their eyes) the superiority of Latin over all other languages, because, will, its Latin.

I, too, have noticed lately that those who most diligently advocate the latin mass seem to do so more because of the latin language than anything else. What a peculiar position to take…

 

[FrDavid96]

I, too, have noticed lately that those who most diligently advocate the latin mass seem to do so more because of the latin language than anything else. What a peculiar position to take…

It’s not peculiar at all. There’s nothing peculiar about having a preference for Latin–after all, it’s the Church’s preference, as well. Personally, I prefer that they take this position rather than what we used to (mostly) see in the past which was a denial of the validity of the Ordinary Form.

 

[curlycool89]

It’s not peculiar at all. There’s nothing peculiar about having a preference for Latin–after all, it’s the Church’s preference, as well. Personally, I prefer that they take this position rather than what we used to (mostly) see in the past which was a denial of the validity of the Ordinary Form.

That’s all I’d ask for as an OF attending Catholic.

If you like/prefer the Latin, then go to a Latin mass (a licit one celebrated by priests in full communion with the Church). All I ask in return is that those people recognize that those of us attending the OF mass are attending a Mass that is just as valid and licit (I would hope that I the future I can add “reverent” to that list too).

 

[CWBetts]

It’s not peculiar at all. There’s nothing peculiar about having a preference for Latin–after all, it’s the Church’s preference, as well. Personally, I prefer that they take this position rather than what we used to (mostly) see in the past which was a denial of the validity of the Ordinary Form.

It is the Church’s preference only in the Latin Rite. The Eastern Rites do not use Latin. To say that Latin is somehow superior is a slap in the face to the 22 Eastern Rites.

 

[Canto]

Why did you use the term “dumbed down” in your Title?

Pray for our Pope, all Bishops, and all Priests.

I used dumbed down in the title as it grabs attention, quotes the article and I fully agree that the current translation is dumbed down.

I shall be healed instead of my soul shall be healed
Church instead of holy Church
These are but two examples

 

[FrDavid96]

It is the Church’s preference only in the Latin Rite. The Eastern Rites do not use Latin. To say that Latin is somehow superior is a slap in the face to the 22 Eastern Rites.

It might be…if we were on the Eastern Catholic forum, but I didn’t post my comment there.

 

[CWBetts]

It might be…if we were on the Eastern Catholic forum, but I didn’t post my comment there.

Does not matter. There are 22 Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, none of which utilize Latin as a liturgical language. By saying that the Church shows a preference to Latin over all other languages relegates the Eastern Rites to being “less Catholic” than the west. That is nothing but arrogance. Latin is not a “holy language.” It is best that Church documents stay in Latin because it is a dead language, and therefore immune form change in vocabulary. However I must agree that the Liturgy in the vernacular is preferred when the faithful are homogeneous.

 

[benedictgal]

Does not matter. There are 22 Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, none of which utilize Latin as a liturgical language. By saying that the Church shows a preference to Latin over all other languages relegates the Eastern Rites to being “less Catholic” than the west. That is nothing but arrogance. Latin is not a “holy language.” It is best that Church documents stay in Latin because it is a dead language, and therefore immune form change in vocabulary. However I must agree that the Liturgy in the vernacular is preferred when the faithful are homogeneous.

So, you are then calling the Latin rite arrogant, CW? Remember, the only change happening here concerns the Latin Rite. The Eastern Churches are not faced with a change to their ritual books. We are.

Furthermore, this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the Easter Rites as they have their own forum. Again, the change affects only the Latin Rite.

Incidentally, Sacrosanctum Concilium, which does not govern the Eastern Rite liturgies and specifically treats only the Latin Rite, specifically states that Latin is to be maintained.

 

[WatchingMedia]

That’s all I’d ask for as an OF attending Catholic.

If you like/prefer the Latin, then go to a Latin mass (a licit one celebrated by priests in full communion with the Church

). All I ask in return is that those people recognize that those of us attending the OF mass are attending a Mass that is just as valid and licit (I would hope that I the future I can add “reverent” to that list too).

AMEN to this post.
It was never been clear to me why folks argue over the language used. Seems quite silly actually. It’s their choice to go to the Catholic Mass of their choice as described by curlycool above.

By the way, it would be good for those who like to argue about language, to read - “The Church is One” “The sacred mystery of the Church’s unity” in the CCC 2nd Ed. 813 - 816.