Dungeons & Dragons roleplay. Yes or no?

[CTA1967]

All my points about fantasy taking over were proven by long, drawn out, egostistical, self-proclaiming soliloquy, which also did not prove it is “harmless” to pretend to use witchcraft/magic/socery.

Did you even read the post AT ALL? RPGs were partially responsible for his introduction to the Church and he helped a fellow RPG player quit his drug addiction! And you’re talking about proof; you’re the challenger! You should be providing the proof! No, not logical fallacies, proof.

 

[estesbob]

All my points about fantasy taking over were proven by long, drawn out, egostistical, self-proclaiming soliloquy, which also did not prove it is “harmless” to pretend to use witchcraft/magic/socery.

How rude, arrogant, and condescending. I hope that nobody who is ever considering joining our church runs across you.

 

[bluebutterfly]

Did you even read the post AT ALL? RPGs were partially responsible for his introduction to the Church and he helped a fellow RPG player quit his drug addiction! And you’re talking about proof; you’re the challenger! You should be providing the proof!

His D&D facilitated his conversion and his “evangalizing?”

I’m the challenger? Is this not a Catholic chat? Or is this a D&D recruiting station? We were supposed to be debating whether fantasy magic/witchcraft/socery is harmless or not. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to take a Biblical and Catholic perspective on the actual issue.

 

[bluebutterfly]

How rude, arrogant, and condescending. I hope that nobody who is ever considering joining our church runs across you.

Let’s refrain from personal attacks. This is supposed to be a forum for debate on issues effecting the Catholic church, like the prevalence of witchcraft/magic. US Marshalls that I know tell me that the Puget Sound area has the most sociopathic and occult crime in the nation. There appears to be a connection there.

 

[Ghoti]

Ghoti - phonetic spelling for fish?

You got it. It’s based on a particular translation of Matthew 4:19: “And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you Ghotiers of men.”

 

[Roza]

Dueteronomy 18:9 - 14 says:
9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. 10 Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, 11 Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. 12 For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming. 13 Thou shalt be perfect, and without spot before the Lord thy God. 14 These nations, whose land thou shalt possess, hearken to soothsayers and diviners: but thou art otherwise instructed by the Lord thy God.

Is there an argument against that?

Ok, that’s the same verse I quoted in regards to my dumb dabbling days and I understand it… I guess I would ask this, Wizard of Oz or Hansel and Gretel, let’s say your kids were in stage crew and the school wanted to put one of these on… would the mere performance of either one then be something you’d view as breaking what Deuteronomy commands?

 

[Michael_Francis]

Temporarily closed pending Mod review.

 

[Angela_Tate]

Thread has been cleaned up and re-opened.
The discussion is still valid because D&D continues to be a popular recreational activity.

Roza:
This thread in no way is a comparison between D&D and Harry Potter. Please start another thread to discuss that comparison if you wish to pursue that topic.

Bluebutterfly:
Your opinion remains in this thread because it accurately represents that of others who hold your position, however, should you choose to continue posting in this thread please use the time to teach how paralleling is the same as practicing.

It is not enough for you to post accusing others of falling under Satan’s reach because they do not agree with you, and it is not enough to cite scripture which applies to actually practicing the occult if you cannot show how role-playing under D&D rules crosses that line.

Please address: Given the rules of D&D and how the games are played where does this role-playing become practicing the occult?

MLChance:
CAF is a discussion board. It is not a debate forum. People are welcome to post their opinions and do not have to do so according to any formal requlations. You are welcome to dismiss opinions with which you do not agree. Challenging others to post in a manner you prefer tends to take the discussion off topic and personal.

I do hope this discussion can continue in an open fashion.

 

[CTA1967]

Alright, thanks. I realize what was said to MLChance applies to me as well, and I’ll try to respond to opposing viewpoints without going overboard. Bluebutterfly, can you demonstrate how paralleling is the same as practicing?

 

[KGM06]

I’ve played D&D off and on since I was first introduced in '77.
As a kid it was just another game like any other.
I didnt get ‘into it’ until after my stint in the Navy.
For me, it was more of a social gathering to spend time and have fun with friends.

The game involves role-playing. How much depends on your group. One group I played with, the role playing was at a minimal. Another (which incidently had a lot of acting/drama students) role playing was much more involved. And everything in-between.

I remember one campaign, it was the most intense campaign ever. I’ll try to Cliff Notes the game

2 Brothers, identical twins of a noble family. While still an infant, one was stolen away and the rest of the family slaughtered by occultist. The family priest managed to save one infant and took him far away to be hidden. There he raised him in the church of a small farming village. the son became a Holy Knight.
the other son that was abducted was raised for evil. he rose to power leading armies conquering as he went.
Of course the good son ended up facing his evil brother and they defeated each other. At the death-blow the evil puppetmaster swore that when the time was right his ‘son’ wil come back and destroy humanity.
Fast forward a few hundred years. The party (game players), on their way to a remote small village find a naked man barely alive in the ditch. The village was a couple miles away so they took him there to the church so he can recover. The priest that tends to the man for he believes (from the scarring and other markings) that the man is actualy the Knight brought back thus the Evil brother must also be back and War/Destruction is comming.

After some time (the party learns all the pre-history) the Knight wa abducted. The party chases after and end up at,… the remains of the noble family home. There in the basement in a dank cavern they find the Knight, chained to a chair and surrounded by the minion of evil.

Then the party finds out that the Knight isnt actually who they thought he was. he was actually the evil son. So the party had some options, try to kill the knight (succeed or die trying) or the best option.
Because of the time spent in the village with the son, the party had to remind the son who he really was deep down, the good and kindness in the village. In a nutshell, the party had to help the son to save his soul. the son renounced his evil past, freed himself, defeated the minions and became a Knight.

To me thats what D&D is about, the fight between good & evil.
Its also a minor form of acting (are all actors/actresses evil because of their profession? what about writers?).
At times, it also involves thinking outside the box. Would a party of level 1 characters defeat a ancient dragon in combat? they wouldnt be able to give the dragon so much as a paper cut, thus other thoughts/actions must be done to overcome the obstacle.

I havent played in about 7 years. I kind of miss it actually.

 

[CWBetts]

That was the sigle best post to date in this discussion

 

[Ghoti]

If you play D&D, when you die you go to Hell.

Unless you get raised, then you lose 1 level and 1 pt of CON.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Alright, thanks. I realize what was said to MLChance applies to me as well, and I’ll try to respond to opposing viewpoints without going overboard. Bluebutterfly, can you demonstrate how paralleling is the same as practicing?

You know, I’m rather curious. How exactly does DnD (or any role-playing game for that matter) even parallel real witchcraft? So far as I’ve heard the latter is more ritualized whilst in the former all I saw were dice-rolling, puzzle-solving, and adding numbers. It’s the same with computerized role-playing games. I myself play a Wizard in this other game I have and from the perspective of any viewer, one could just see a guy pressing buttons and clicking his mouse which hardly resembles any of the many rituals you’d find in my country’s herb doctors, psychics, and so-called ‘witches’. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about because I’ve already read a few articles, watched some paranormal shows, and a book written by an exorcist on the subject.

I would really like to see bluebutterfly prove how waving your hands and chanting some spiritualist mumbo-jumbo is the same as pressing the hotkey and clicking on a space on your screen to stop a 2D monster from sending your avatar back to the nearest respawn point.

 

[KGM06]

You know, I’m rather curious. How exactly does DnD (or any role-playing game for that matter) even parallel real witchcraft? So far as I’ve heard the latter is more ritualized whilst in the former all I saw were dice-rolling, puzzle-solving, and adding numbers. It’s the same with computerized role-playing games. I myself play a Wizard in this other game I have and from the perspective of any viewer, one could just see a guy pressing buttons and clicking his mouse which hardly resembles any of the many rituals you’d find in my country’s herb doctors, psychics, and so-called ‘witches’. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about because I’ve already read a few articles, watched some paranormal shows, and a book written by an exorcist on the subject.

I would really like to see bluebutterfly prove how waving your hands and chanting some spiritualist mumbo-jumbo is the same as pressing the hotkey and clicking on a space on your screen to stop a 2D monster from sending your avatar back to the nearest respawn point.

You cant really.
I remember I was in a gamestore. This one mother brought her little boy in, probably to buy a comic book or maybe a pokemon card or whatever. I was looking at the D&D books. The boy wandered over to look at hte books too. the mother snached him away saying “those books teach you how to cast spells, they’re evil”. I grabbed the Player’s handbook, flipped thru to the spell section and pointed it out to her asking how can I cast this fireball spell? You cant, plain and simple. What you will find is a description of what the spell does (flaming ball of fire at x distance doing y damage in a radius), and rules to prevent misuse, (verbal and hands so a gagged & tied up mage cant cast and spell components usually enforced by the GM to keep the game somewhat balanced).
Its a game. Sure its a break from reality but so is a book, the movies, theater, concert, television, etc. even reading the Bible in a sense is a break from reality because you are oblivious to your immediate surroundings (I get that way at times anyhow).
Are breaks from reality a bad thing? I dont think so as long as its not abused. There are cases where a person died from playing a video game. In Korea I believe in a internet cafe playing a MMPOG called Lineage, think there was one case for a Everquest player. In those cases, they were so wrapped up with the game they didnt take breaks to eat or sleep and the body revolted killing them.
As for all things, moderation is key. Too much of one thing is generally not a good idea.
So yea, dont feel bad if once a week you grab your character sheet, a bag of dice and spend a good social evening with your friends playing D&D or a LAN party playing FPS or RPG games.

 

[CWBetts]

I can’t help but notice that when the “Gaming is Evil” crowd is forced to offer evidence, they fall silent.

 

[Ruthie]

It may be sheer embarrassment. When they do their research, they usually find out that their “evidence” is usually from Chick tracts, The Onion, and/or the World Weekly News. Oops!

Now, 'scuse me. I’m either gonna play a couple of hours of Diablo, or re-read a Harry Potter book, or watch one of the movies.

God bless us all, even Jack Chick,

Ruthie

 

[CWBetts]

You mean Chick Tracts aren’t a reliable source???

 

[Roza]

You mean Chick Tracts aren’t a reliable source???

I was the clueless one that read his online book on Catholicism and visited a few anti sites that convinced me Catholicism was so messed up… but in spite of my being dumb, did eventually end up back in a Catholic Church. Was gone almost 20 yrs.

 

[CWBetts]

I was the clueless one that read his online book on Catholicism and visited a few anti sites that convinced me Catholicism was so messed up… but in spite of my being dumb, did eventually end up back in a Catholic Church. Was gone almost 20 yrs.

It was Jack Chick and his ilk that had me convinced Catholicism wasn’t Christian, and kept me away from the Church until recently

 

[Roza]

I did my new age junk first, was delivered from it… then instead of just going back figured I had to search if I should stay Catholic or go somewhere else… and that’s why I ended up going to a different church for 3 yrs. I still like my ol church but yeah, crackers and juice once a month for communion was missing… ‘something’. I may still go back there once my own life is a little more together. But really have to pray on it all first. Do miss everyone but yeah, need to learn my Catholic faith. A lot I just didn’t get 20+ years ago… .still not sure how I made confirmation back then. 1984.