Dutch government plans to regulate ritual slaughter (no more Kosher meat)

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Ridgerunner said:
I don’t either.

Europe is pretty supine in many ways right now, but it can be otherwise. Somebody will surely critique what I’m going to say, but it is my belief that, notwithstanding the EU and all that, Europe is tribal in ways the U.S. is not. I recall some wag saying, only partly in jest, that every western European war from Charlemagne on has been the unending struggle between the Saxons and the Franks.

Europe is now being slowly beset by Muslims, largely from North Africa, but also from Turkey. That might be the stage setting for one of its periodic tribal upheavals; a Battle of Tours played out in policy. Why, then, would Europe take it out on the Jews?

Well, because Europe has long tended to do that. Times are bad economically, blame the Jews. The Saracens have taken over the Holy Land, blame the Jews. Communism threatens, blame the Jews. Jews in Europe are sometimes like the battered wife whose husband gets pushed around in a bar then comes home and takes it out on her.

I am of European extraction. I don’t hate Europe or Europeans. Far from it. But one thing about European-Americans is that we’re not really tribal in the same way here that we were there, St. Patrick’s Day festivities notwithstanding. And we have overlapping tribal affiliations by region as well. Irish northerners are not like Irish southerners in this country.

Jews are, by near definition, a “tribe”, and they’re not the dominant one anywhere but in Israel. When things go tribal, it’s often the little tribe that gets hurt first.
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In my town one out of four people is from Turkey. There’s an entire suburb with Turkish shops only (that I enjoy as I veil and they have some cool stuff 😃 ); my newpews’ class in school is mainly Turkish, there’re only five German pupils, the others are from Turkey. The Turkish population is big, so I can co-sign this part of your comment.

However, I can’t co-sign that Germans blamed the Jews for whatnot. I know a lot of people - a lot - and I’ve never ever heard anything like this, including Muslims. Now, you could say that maybe I know the “wrong” people, but the people I know also know tons of people, and had they heard anything like that, they would have brought this topic on the table. Truth is in every day life that noone even speaks about Jews. In my town people are very open, (you can basically start talking to anyone in the streets lol) and also the regular folk in the streets, at the grocery stores, at the bakers, no matter where, never uttered anything about the Jews.

You have to be careful everywhere when it comes to unrighteousness. However, if you overdo it and only think about unrighteousness, you might not even see righteousness anymore. You always have journalists that must make a story, and add some fuel to possible fire. This is dangerous, as it can cause a (social) war that wouldn’t even be there otherwise. Look at how Muslims react on one single thing, like that movie released by media people, as it adds fuel to a fire. Why dont they make sure the Muslim world hears about loving movies about Islam also? Contrary good deeds can hardly be found in the media. This world might really end up in a social war one day and even though the majority of people didn’t even think about prejudicing anyone elses religion. If you ask me, this is also the danger of todays society.

I’m not trying to disregard issues, but trying to point out the other side *in addition to *what has already been said by Chosenpeople for example. Note maybe that I was constantly raised to always pay attention and to keep my eyes open, it even was some kind of blue print in my upbringing, and to immediately scream when I see or hear something that is unrighteous, and not to fear anything but come home and say it, and this is who I am today. If I hear anyone discriminating any other person, you bet I will drag him to the next police station and I won’t feel the least bit of fear, not even if the guy is ten feet tall. I will drag him there.
 
According to a modern survey:

Over one in ten of the Irish people would deny citizenship to Jews.

One in four would deny citizenship to an Israeli.

Over 40 per cent said they wouldn’t allow a Jew into their family (nearly 50 per cent in the 18 - 25 age group).

There is only one single Righteous among Nations for the entire country

The Israeli Embassy was only opened in 1993

In February 2012 an article in the Irish Times dealing with ties between Israel and India referred to “strategic freemasonry” a term taken out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Ireland has been a leader behind boycotts and vilification of Israel and were the driving force behind Durban, a conference that turned into the largest anti-Semitic rally since the end of WWII. IRA terrorists have aided and abetted terror attacks against Jews around the world.

Here are a few articles on the subject:

thecommentator.com/article/252/modern_ireland_the_perfect_liberal_state_progressive_european_and_jew_hating_

thejc.com/news/uk-news/49…is-their-homes

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-…anti-semitism/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-…sh-connection/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-…tion-part-iii/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-…ion-part-iv-5/

honestreporting.com/strategic…irish-times-2/
 
Yes, we know about the problems between northern Irish and southern Irish in Ireland. That was, of course, not my reference, but there’s no point in belaboring it.

But more to the point, do you really not believe Muslims in Europe have tribal loyalties that trump “being European”?
 
According to a modern survey:

Over one in ten of the Irish people would deny citizenship to Jews.

One in four would deny citizenship to an Israeli.

Over 40 per cent said they wouldn’t allow a Jew into their family (nearly 50 per cent in the 18 - 25 age group).

There is only one single Righteous among Nations for the entire country

The Israeli Embassy was only opened in 1993

In February 2012 an article in the Irish Times dealing with ties between Israel and India referred to “strategic freemasonry” a term taken out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Ireland has been a leader behind boycotts and vilification of Israel and were the driving force behind Durban, a conference that turned into the largest anti-Semitic rally since the end of WWII. IRA terrorists have aided and abetted terror attacks against Jews around the world.

Here are a few articles on the subject:

thecommentator.com/article/252/modern_ireland_the_perfect_liberal_state_progressive_european_and_jew_hating_

thejc.com/news/uk-news/49…is-their-homes

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-%E2%80%93-the-irish-connection/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-the-irish-connection-part-iii/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-the-irish-connection-part-iv-5/

honestreporting.com/strategic-freemasonry-shades-of-anti-semitic-protocols-in-the-irish-times-2/
 
I’m afraid I know little about Ireland, but I’ve always wanted to visit – Cork especially. Sometimes the accent sounds very strongly Caribbean, and allegedly I’m supposed to have a great-great-grandfather from there.
 
chosen_people said:
According to a modern survey:

Over one in ten of the Irish people would deny citizenship to Jews.

One in four would deny citizenship to an Israeli.

Over 40 per cent said they wouldn’t allow a Jew into their family (nearly 50 per cent in the 18 - 25 age group).

There is only one single Righteous among Nations for the entire country

The Israeli Embassy was only opened in 1993

In February 2012 an article in the Irish Times dealing with ties between Israel and India referred to “strategic freemasonry” a term taken out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Ireland has been a leader behind boycotts and vilification of Israel and were the driving force behind Durban, a conference that turned into the largest anti-Semitic rally since the end of WWII. IRA terrorists have aided and abetted terror attacks against Jews around the world.

Here are a few articles on the subject:

thecommentator.com/article/252/modern_ireland_the_perfect_liberal_state_progressive_european_and_jew_hating_

thejc.com/news/uk-news/49…is-their-homes

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-%E2%80%93-the-irish-connection/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-the-irish-connection-part-iii/

frontpagemag.com/2010/robert-harris/allied-in-anti-semitism-the-irish-connection-part-iv-5/

honestreporting.com/strategic-freemasonry-shades-of-anti-semitic-protocols-in-the-irish-times-2/
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Nevertheless, my friend, whatever it might be like in Ireland itself, there is many an Irish-American who supports Israel and would wholeheartedly fight for Israel if it comes to that.
Many an Irish-Australian too, I expect.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
:confused: Lots of Irish and West Indian folks in the area where I live. I can’t hear any similarity in their accents.
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I definitely hear a similarity between Jamaican and Irish accents, although I can’t account for others. It was rather off-topic, I don’t mean to turn this into a linguistics discussion.
 
Bezant said:
I definitely hear a similarity between Jamaican and Irish accents, although I can’t account for others. It was rather off-topic, I don’t mean to turn this into a linguistics discussion.
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It is somewhat off topic but I really fail to comprehend how you can even perceive a similarity.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Nevertheless, my friend, whatever it might be like in Ireland itself, there is many an Irish-American who supports Israel and would wholeheartedly fight for Israel if it comes to that.
Many an Irish-Australian too, I expect.
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Absolutely agree.

The problem is with Europe.

Here for example is Spain:

According to a poll commissioned by the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 58.4% of Spaniards believe that “the Jews are powerful because they control the economy and the mass media.” This number reaches 62.2% among university students and 70.5% among those who are “interested in politics.” More than 60% of Spanish university students say they do not want Jewish classmates.

In other polling data, more than one-third (34.6%) of Spanish people have an unfavorable or completely unfavorable opinion of Jewish people.

Among those who recognize themselves as having “antipathy for the Jewish people,” only 17% says this is due to the “conflict in the Middle East.” Nearly 30% of those surveyed say their dislike of Jews has to do with “their religion,” “their customs,” and “their way of life.” Nearly 20% of Spaniards say they dislike Jews although they do not know why.

Spain is also the only country in Europe where negative views of Jews outweigh positive views; only 37% of Spaniards think favorably about Jews.

Another report about European anti-Semitism published by the New York-based Anti-Defamation League says that 54% of Spaniards believe that “Jews have too much power in international markets.” And 51% of Spaniards believe that “Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country.”

It’s possible that not many Spaniards have actually ever met a Jew., Spain today has one of the smallest Jewish communities in Europe; the country has only around 40,000 Jews out of a total Spanish population of 47 million, which works out to less than 0.08 percent. Nonetheless, there were around 400 anti-Semitic incidents in Spain during 2010.
 
So stupid. Before I even knew that my Grandma was Jewish I only wanted to make business with Jewish people if any possible. Why? Because I knew that there’re religious laws that demand righteous and fair treatment of business partners, so that I could put all my trust in negotiations and contracts and everything alltogether, and if someone doesn’t want to make business with a Jew it’s his own fault.
 
Well actually Switzerland was a pioneer in these types of laws making the practice of Judaism illegal. Although it was the last country in western Europe to grant full emancipation to the Jews (the last canton finally capitulated in 1879) the country succeeded in banning Jewish ritual slaughter already by 1893 (some cantons had banned it already in the 1860’s).

Now, of course, the reason for laws making it illegal to practice Judaism is ostensibly not to encourage Jews to live somewhere else, but for a noble reason, such as the humane treatment of animals.

Well if this was the case, the first thing you would expect would be that the country seeking to ban ritual slaughter for “humane reasons” would ban hunting. A wounded animal which escapes from a hunter could writhe in agony for days before dying. However, it turns out that hunting animals for sport (a very non-Jewish activity prohibited under Jewish law) is perfectly acceptable. You might also expect a ban on private slaughter for personal consumption. Again,you would be wrong.

The thing is that the whole idea of being humane to animals originated with the Jews, so they have no one to blame but themselves. One of the Noahide commandments by which God judges Gentiles concerns the prohibition to cut away flesh from a living animal. The prohibitions in Judaism concerning eating milk and meat together grew out of the Jewish disgust seeing Gentiles milking a mother goat in order to boil the same mother’s kid for a meal. The Torah is replete with rules governing the humane treatment of animals, from resting your animals on the Sabbath to prohibiting their being muzzled to prevent them from eating when they are at work.

It is precisely because of Jewish perceptions toward the humane treatment of animals that is behind the quick, natural and virtually painless way that animals are ritually slaughtered. A painful electric shock to the head (which sometimes has to be repeated when not done properly) is “humane” (sic!) in the same way that circumcision is “mutilation”. In a perfect world no one would be able to kill an animal for sport, all animals would be treated humanely according to Jewish law, and the only way to slaughter an animal for food would be the humane way of Jewish ritual slaughter. Then again, in a perfect world, every male would be circumcised ant there we would be saving billions of dollars in medical costs on unnecessary infections and unnecessary heartache from STD’s.
 
504Katrin said:
So stupid. Before I even knew that my Grandma was Jewish I only wanted to make business with Jewish people if any possible. Why? Because I knew that there’re religious laws that demand righteous and fair treatment of business partners, so that I could put all my trust in negotiations and contracts and everything alltogether, and if someone doesn’t want to make business with a Jew it’s his own fault.
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I wouldn’t idealize anybody as a group. Not Jews, not Catholics. Nobody. People are people, and there are good and bad ones in every group. I have had business dealings with Jews and the ones I have dealt with are about like anybody else.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I wouldn’t idealize anybody as a group. Not Jews, not Catholics. Nobody. People are people, and there are good and bad ones in every group. I have had business dealings with Jews and the ones I have dealt with are about like anybody else.
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I agree 100%
 
markomalley said:
From the Times of Israel

The Dutch government is drafting a decree that would give the government veto power over anyone who wants to practice ritual slaughter, or shechita, in the Netherlands.

The draft decree, which was signed by Dutch Agriculture Minister Henk Bleker, was drawn up by the government to end two years of uncertainty about the future of the practice in the Netherlands. The Dutch daily NRC Handelsblad published the contents of the draft decree on Friday.

“If veterinarians are put in charge of shechita, then before long it would basically stop shechita in the Netherlands,” Amsterdam Chief Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag told JTA.
Once again, it’s more important to be politically correct than to respect religious liberty.
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I’d love to see them try and ban halal meat…
 
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