dying boy denied baptism in Seventh Day Adventist Church

[runandsew]

I was listening to a Seventh Day Adventist radio program and the pastor was saying that there is baptism by immersion only . He said that his 8 year old brother was dying in the hospital and wanted to be baptized, but couldn’t be immersed, so they didn’t baptize him. He was quite adamant about the fact that he felt bad, but only baptism by immersion would count.
I found this quite sad, and it personally made me angry that some people, who think they only have the correct interpretation of scripture, could risk the salvation of others by their misinterpretation. I pray for Gods mercy. I believe there is baptism of desire, so I feel the boy is in heaven.
If immersion is the only way to baptize, then how did the Apostles baptize 3,000 people at a time in Jerusalem in the book of Acts, there would not have been the water supply for that, and why in the Didache which was written around the year 70 AD, does it talk about pouring water for baptism if the water for immersion is not available?

 

[Valke2]

I was listening to a Seventh Day Adventist radio program and the pastor was saying that there is baptism by immersion only . He said that his 8 year old brother was dying in the hospital and wanted to be baptized, but couldn’t be immersed, so they didn’t baptize him. He was quite adamant about the fact that he felt bad, but only baptism by immersion would count.
I found this quite sad, and it personally made me angry that some people, who think they only have the correct interpretation of scripture, could risk the salvation of others by their misinterpretation. I pray for Gods mercy. I believe there is baptism of desire, so I feel the boy is in heaven.
If immersion is the only way to baptize, then how did the Apostles baptize 3,000 people at a time in Jerusalem in the book of Acts, there would not have been the water supply for that, and why in the Didache which was written around the year 70 AD, does it talk about pouring water for baptism if the water for immersion is not available?

There were many mikvahs in Jerusalem, so immersion in water was common.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I was listening to a Seventh Day Adventist radio program and the pastor was saying that there is baptism by immersion only . He said that his 8 year old brother was dying in the hospital and wanted to be baptized, but couldn’t be immersed, so they didn’t baptize him. He was quite adamant about the fact that he felt bad, but only baptism by immersion would count.
I found this quite sad, and it personally made me angry that some people, who think they only have the correct interpretation of scripture, could risk the salvation of others by their misinterpretation. I pray for Gods mercy. I believe there is baptism of desire, so I feel the boy is in heaven.
If immersion is the only way to baptize, then how did the Apostles baptize 3,000 people at a time in Jerusalem in the book of Acts, there would not have been the water supply for that, and why in the Didache which was written around the year 70 AD, does it talk about pouring water for baptism if the water for immersion is not available?

Baptism in its beginning in the Early Church did not included baptism by immersion. It also included baptism by pouring. I don’t think the apostles were stupid to immerse everyone. There were converts who could be not baptized because of their physical condition, so another method was used which is baptism by pouring on the head three times in the Trinitarian Formula (In the Father, Of the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

 

[runandsew]

There were many mikvahs in Jerusalem, so immersion in water was common.

So, would there have been enough there in Jerusalem to baptize 3,000 people in one day?

 

[Karin]

There were many mikvahs in Jerusalem, so immersion in water was common.

isnt a mikvah something that woman use after menstruation to make themselves “pure” again?
I dont think I would want to be baptized in that water

 

[Valke2]

isnt a mikvah something that woman use after menstruation to make themselves “pure” again?
I dont think I would want to be baptized in that water

where do you think the idea of baptism came from? And yes, that is one of its uses. It is also something done when one converts to Judaism. But the point I was making was that there was enough water available in Jerusalem for baptisms.

 

[Valke2]

So, would there have been enough there in Jerusalem to baptize 3,000 people in one day?

everyone who entered the Temple went through the mikva first. So we’d have to figure out how many people visited the Temple each day and then guess. But I don’t see why there wouldn’t be enough water for 3,000. As long as you had enough people to keep things moving.

 

[deb1]

I was under the impression that the early Christians were attempting to be discreet with their activities. Even though there was enough water to immerse a many people, it might be difficult to do so and be secretive.

Just curious, Valke, do Jewish women immerse their heads also or do they only immerse part of their bodies. Honestly, I don’t know and this just made me curious.

I don’t know how Seventh Day Adventist view baptism. Is it only a symbol to them? If so then why would they need to strictly keep the rules about immersion?

 

[Valke2]

I was under the impression that the early Christians were attempting to be discreet with their activities. Even though there was enough water to immerse a many people, it might be difficult to do so and be secretive.

Just curious, Valke, do Jewish women immerse their heads also or do they only immerse part of their bodies. Honestly, I don’t know and this just made me curious.

I don’t know how Seventh Day Adventist view baptism. Is it only a symbol to them? If so then why would they need to strictly keep the rules about immersion?

they need to immerse their entire bodies, including the head. IN fact, there’s even a debate about what to do with jewish women who have kinky hair, as there may be parts of the hair that do not get wet. The women cannot have braids in their hair when the enter, for the same reason.

 

[deb1]

they need to immerse their entire bodies, including the head. IN fact, there’s even a debate about what to do with jewish women who have kinky hair, as there may be parts of the hair that do not get wet. The women cannot have braids in their hair when the enter, for the same reason.

Thank you! That was interesting.

 

[Karin]

they need to immerse their entire bodies, including the head. IN fact, there’s even a debate about what to do with jewish women who have kinky hair, as there may be parts of the hair that do not get wet. The women cannot have braids in their hair when the enter, for the same reason.

how often is this water changed Valke2…sorry now I am curious

 

[runandsew]

Here is the wikipedia article about the mikvah

I would think that the water was pretty gunky by the end of the day.

As for “immersion only” there is still the issue about the Didache giving the option of pouring water, even if immersion was the preferred way, the early church still allowed non-immersion baptisms is certain cases.

 

[Valke2]

how often is this water changed Valke2…sorry now I am curious

they could change it as often as needed. I don’t think there was any law regarding that. The amount and type of water was regulated.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I also like to point out that during the Pagan Roman Empire persecution of the Christians, baptism by immersion would expose a lot of Christians by the authority. When the Church went underground, it was more common for the Church community to baptize by pouring.

 

[sandmountainsli]

I don’t know about the SDA but the Baptists only accept immersion.
I as a Methodist was baptised by pouring three times on my head.
If I went to a Baptist Church I would be denied Communion because of my manner of baptism.
I would also have to be “re-Baptised” if I were of a mind to join a Baptist Church.
WP

 

[PaulDupre]

they could change it as often as needed. I don’t think there was any law regarding that. The amount and type of water was regulated.

The OT and other things I’ve read seem to indicate that a mikvah must be living water (that is, water that is moving and therefore frequently replaced and fresh). So the water getting dirty shouldn’t have been a problem. There were artisans in Israel that were specialists in creating living water mikvahs.
Paul

 

[christianley]

I was listening to a Seventh Day Adventist radio program and the pastor was saying that there is baptism by immersion only . He said that his 8 year old brother was dying in the hospital and wanted to be baptized, but couldn’t be immersed, so they didn’t baptize him. He was quite adamant about the fact that he felt bad, but only baptism by immersion would count.
I found this quite sad, and it personally made me angry that some people, who think they only have the correct interpretation of scripture, could risk the salvation of others by their misinterpretation. I pray for Gods mercy. I believe there is baptism of desire, so I feel the boy is in heaven.
If immersion is the only way to baptize, then how did the Apostles baptize 3,000 people at a time in Jerusalem in the book of Acts, there would not have been the water supply for that, and why in the Didache which was written around the year 70 AD, does it talk about pouring water for baptism if the water for immersion is not available?

Do the 7th Day Adventists even believe that baptism is necessary for salvation? Most Baptists don’t. They think all you have to do is have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved (based on the salvation of the thief on the cross and the writings of Paul). I would guess the Adventists might have the same belief. Catholics and Mormons believe baptism to be absolutely necessary, but both have found ways to go around that problem for people who weren’t baptized during their lives.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t know about the SDA but the Baptists only accept immersion.
I as a Methodist was baptised by pouring three times on my head.
If I went to a Baptist Church I would be denied Communion because of my manner of baptism.
I would also have to be “re-Baptised” if I were of a mind to join a Baptist Church.
WP

Of course after being denied Communion you could go to local 7-11 and get Crackers and grape juice and have the same thing.

 

[deb1]

I don’t know about the SDA but the Baptists only accept immersion.
I as a Methodist was baptised by pouring three times on my head.
If I went to a Baptist Church I would be denied Communion because of my manner of baptism.
I would also have to be “re-Baptised” if I were of a mind to join a Baptist Church.
WP

No. If the pastor considered you a Christian then you wouldn’t be denied communion but you would be strongly pressured to be rebaptized.

I was baptized as a 11 year old. I lost faith and later recommitted myself to Christ. When I started attending a Baptist church in Iowa the pastor insisted that I get rebaptized. His reasoning was that I must not have originally been a Christian if I backslid so my original Baptism did not count even though it was done in a Baptist Church.

I did not want to get rebaptized as this seemed silly to me but it was implied that a ‘real’ Christian would ‘want’ to get rebatized and make a public declaration of their faith.

 

[Valke2]

The OT and other things I’ve read seem to indicate that a mikvah must be living water (that is, water that is moving and therefore frequently replaced and fresh). So the water getting dirty shouldn’t have been a problem. There were artisans in Israel that were specialists in creating living water mikvahs.
Paul

It is true it must have either rainwater or water from a stream in it. But only a small amount of such water is necessary. The rest can be still water/tap water.