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Fitz
Guest
Back to the question of the boy. He probably received the “baptism of desire” that we talk about. In his heart he accpeted Jesus Christ as his savior.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Seventh Day Adventists don’t view baptism as needed for salvation.
When dealing with a baptist or adventist who insits on full dunkings, ask them about this passage in the didache.
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
I understand the didache to be an early church manual.
When dealing with a baptist or adventist who insits on full dunkings, ask them about this passage in the didache.
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
I understand the didache to be an early church manual.
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Fitz
Guest
Sure, but it is his wish to accept Jesus as his Savior and his wish to be baptised that will be his redemption- Catholic or not.
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deb1
Guest
I agree but doesn’t it seem strange that a group of people who view baptism as a symbol would get so hung up on how the act is carried out?
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SDA2RC
Guest
SDA’s view baptism as a symbol, and not necessary for salvation, but desirable. However, they believe that baptism must only be given to those who are old enough to understand the meaning of the symbol. That age is basically up to the discretion of the minister performing the baptism. I have heard of children as young as 7 and 8 being baptized, but it is not the norm. The official SDA teaching on baptism which can be found at www.adventist.org, is:
15. Baptism:
By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)
15. Baptism:
By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.)
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
So if the boy asked for baptism would they instead give him a scorpian?
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jim1130
Guest
I was going to suggest the Didache, or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, too. Thanks for the link.
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PaulDupre
Guest
I didn’t know that. Is that just a modern Jewish position, or is there evidence that the ancients had the same standard for living water?
It’s great to have you here, Valke2. I learn a great deal from you.
Paul
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Valke2
Guest
I have to redact my earlier statement. Originally, a small amount of “drawn water” i.e. water from a well or water that wasn’t rainwater, could contaminate the mikva. So it was not a small amount of rainwater that was needed. But rather, a small amount of “non-kosher” water was permissible. Because the water got so dirty so quickly, the rabbis came up with the following solution:
“Hashakah” involves two bodies of water that touch each other. This involves filling one pool with Kosher rainwater (with all the great care involved in collecting and transporting this water) and another pool with water from the tap that is considered Mayim Sheuvim (not kosher rainwater, as it is considered water that has been residing in a receptacle.) People immerse in the pool filled with tap water and no one immerses in the pool filled with rainwater (the rainwater pool is covered to preserve the water and maintain its cleanliness). The tap water is changed periodically to insure a high level of cleanliness. The two pools are constructed in immediate proximity to each other and a common wall separates the two pools. The tap water is rendered Kosher by its contact with the rainwater through a hole in the common wall that separates the two pools. The Mishna (Mikvaot 6:7) records that the Torah level mandated size of the hole is Kishfoferet Hanod (the opening of a container). The Mishna explains that this is an area in which two fingers can fit comfortably.
As to how long this has been in practice, since it is recorded in the Mishna, (although obviously it didn’t discuss tap water, but rather water drawn from a well), it would have to be a least a few thousand years. However, I don’t know if the mikva’s in the TEmple in Jerusalem were set up this way. My guess would be that they were.
This was what I was thinking about when I originally mistakenly said you only needed a small amount of rainwater.
Just to give you an idea of the kind of thought, history and discussion that goes into all aspect of Jewish life, the following link is a discsussion on the types of water used for the mikvah. After glancing at it, it is obvious that pretty much any answer I give here on aspects of Judaism is just a bare bone thumbnail. Also, you’ll notice that there are discrepancies on details between the rabbis. This is very common.
koltorah.org/ravj/12-2%20The%20Building%20and%20Maintenance%20of%20Mikvaot%20-%20Part%203.htm
“Hashakah” involves two bodies of water that touch each other. This involves filling one pool with Kosher rainwater (with all the great care involved in collecting and transporting this water) and another pool with water from the tap that is considered Mayim Sheuvim (not kosher rainwater, as it is considered water that has been residing in a receptacle.) People immerse in the pool filled with tap water and no one immerses in the pool filled with rainwater (the rainwater pool is covered to preserve the water and maintain its cleanliness). The tap water is changed periodically to insure a high level of cleanliness. The two pools are constructed in immediate proximity to each other and a common wall separates the two pools. The tap water is rendered Kosher by its contact with the rainwater through a hole in the common wall that separates the two pools. The Mishna (Mikvaot 6:7) records that the Torah level mandated size of the hole is Kishfoferet Hanod (the opening of a container). The Mishna explains that this is an area in which two fingers can fit comfortably.
As to how long this has been in practice, since it is recorded in the Mishna, (although obviously it didn’t discuss tap water, but rather water drawn from a well), it would have to be a least a few thousand years. However, I don’t know if the mikva’s in the TEmple in Jerusalem were set up this way. My guess would be that they were.
This was what I was thinking about when I originally mistakenly said you only needed a small amount of rainwater.
Just to give you an idea of the kind of thought, history and discussion that goes into all aspect of Jewish life, the following link is a discsussion on the types of water used for the mikvah. After glancing at it, it is obvious that pretty much any answer I give here on aspects of Judaism is just a bare bone thumbnail. Also, you’ll notice that there are discrepancies on details between the rabbis. This is very common.
koltorah.org/ravj/12-2%20The%20Building%20and%20Maintenance%20of%20Mikvaot%20-%20Part%203.htm
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happy34
Guest
u dont have 2 be baptized but u must be saved to go 2 heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior in ur heart so if he has he is in heaven [URL Not Found/404(name removed by moderator)age.html](URL Not Found/404(name removed by moderator)age.html)
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adventistnomore
Guest
Your opinion:
Baptism now saves you—not as the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.’ (1 Pet 3:21)
He Who Believes and Is Baptized Will Be Saved. (Matt 16:16)
‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’ (John 3:5)
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5-6)
Scripture:
Baptism now saves you—not as the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.’ (1 Pet 3:21)
He Who Believes and Is Baptized Will Be Saved. (Matt 16:16)
‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’ (John 3:5)
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5-6)
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Bonnie
Guest
I must have gone to a liberal Baptist church! I attended from toddlerhood to teens & was never baptised, never had it suggested that I should be baptised, nor did I ever witness a baptism. Yet, behind the preacher, was a huge baptismal tub hidden behind the wall. (Some of us kids once snuck in to look at it.)
But when we had our grapejuice & “pillows” (my word for the tiny crackers), everyone recieved, including me.
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