Dying in a state of mortal sin

[Mike_Gallagher]

I was thinking the other day about a hypothetical scenario and I would like to know what others think about it.

You have committed a mortal sin and have not yet been to confession. Out with your children you suddenly face some sort of situation where in order to save the lives of your children, you must give your own away.(e.g. you need to push the kids out of the way of a truck) Either that, or you can save your life at the expense of the childrens’ and live to have a chance to go to confession.

Knowing your kids would certainly go to heaven, being baptised and under the age of accountability, and knowing you would go to hell in a state of mortal sin, would saving your own life be the better choice? Or, could you trust that this last selfless action could be a self imposed penance as sorrow for your sins? You only have a few seconds to choose…

 

[carol_marie]

I’m saving my kids… regardless.

Because under the other senerio… although I could go to confession and receive forgivness, I’d be miserable for the rest of my days knowing that MY SIN & the fear of hell, prevented me from helping my children and as a result, they died. Talk about a burden. No thanks.

But isn’t the question irrelevent because I was told that if you are sorry for your sin & you’ve repented & asked for God’s forgiveness… and fully intend to go to confession - even if you die before that - you are forgiven. It’s also been asked/answered here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=74147&highlight=mortal

 

[paulCT]

I would sacrifice my life for my kids, even if I was in a state of mortal sin. Jesus tells us that’s the greatest gift we can give: laying down our life for somone else.

However, I did a little more research on what you should do if you are dying in mortal sin and what the appropriate actions should be.

For a Roman Catholic, in addition to the prayers one can say for the sick and dying, the last sacrament is actually the Eucharist (communion) in the form of Viaticum. If a priest were available, he would hear the person’s confession, give the sacrament of the sick, and give communion. Only a priest can hear a confession or give the sacrament of the sick. However, a deacon, or a lay person, who is designated a Eucharistic Minister by his/her pastor in accordance with the regulations of the local bishop can give communion to the dying. When a Eucharistic Minister becomes aware that someone is dying, and no priest is available he or she should go to the Church and obtain a consecrated host and take it to the sick person.

If the sick person wishes to receive communion but indicates the need to go to confession first, the lay minister cannot hear the person’s confession. The sick person should make a sincere, or perfect, act of contrition and then receive communion. (However, if a confused sick person admits, or confesses, some sin anyway, the minister is bound to the same secrecy as is a priest.)

The eucharist, which continuously makes the paschal mystery of Christ to be present among us, is the source of every grace and of the forgiveness of sins. Nevertheless, those who intend to receive the body of the Lord must approach it with a pure conscience and proper dispositions of soul if they are to receive the effects of the paschal sacrament.

On this account the Church prescribes ‘that those conscious of mortal sin, even though they think themselves to be contrite, must not go to the holy eucharist without sacramental confession beforehand.’ When there is a serious reason and no opportunity for confession, they are to make an act of perfect contrition with the intention of confessing individually [to a priest], as soon as possible, the mortal sins that they cannot confess at present.

A Ritual for Laypersons, The Liturgical Press, copyright 1993 by Order of St Benedict. Published under authority of NCCB of USA, pp. 7-8.

Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

Code of Canon Law, Sanctifying Office of the Church, Participation in the Blessed Eucharist.

(Being in danger of death should certainly constitute a “grave reason” and the “absence of a priest” would mean no opportunity to confess.)

 

[BLB_Oregon]

carol marie:

But isn’t the question irrelevent because I was told that if you are sorry for your sin & you’ve repented & asked for God’s forgiveness… and fully intend to go to confession - even if you die before that - you are forgiven. It’s also been asked/answered here…

This is a good answer.
I think that the rule to follow is this: Let the will of God be your guide, where you put what is truly in the best interest of others before what you fear is your own best interest (or theirs). This means that you assume that God wishes life for us, that He doesn’t do “preemptive death strikes” to keep from losing souls.

In what sense would it be free will, if God had to “catch” us with our needles on the right side of the red mark? Isn’t heaven for those who positively choose to point in the right direction? Likewise, it would not be right to rob a child of a chance to serve God in this life because you feared the child could not do it. In spite of appearances we judge to be to the contrary, I feel certain that we can trust that the judgement of an all-merciful and all-just God will never be premature. Be but faithful, and trust that God will take care of “success”.

If you put God and others before yourself, you will be on good ground. Only the devil is going to tell you that your chances of eternal happiness will ever be enhanced by putting yourself first.

 

[masterjedi747]

Mike Gallagher:

Out with your children you suddenly face some sort of situation where in order to save the lives of your children, you must give your own away. (e.g. you need to push the kids out of the way of a truck)

If you voluntarily give up your life in order to save your children in a situation like that, then you go straight to heaven. And no, I’m not kidding or making this up. Remember, sin is inherently selfish, putting oneself before God. Self-sacrifice, on the other hand, is the greatest act of selfless love that a person can give to another. It the single most perfect imitation of what Christ did for us on the cross. Every selfish mortal and venial sin that you might possibly have on your soul pales to nothing in comparison with the graces and virtues such an act requires of you. Put simply: If you are truly willing to lay down your own life to save another (especially your children), then you cannot possibly be in a state of mortal sin, and you will go straight to heaven if you die. There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for a friend.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

masterjedi747:

If you voluntarily give up your life in order to save your children in a situation like that, then you go straight to heaven. And no, I’m not kidding or making this up. Remember, sin is inherently selfish, putting oneself before God. Self-sacrifice, on the other hand, is the greatest act of selfless love that a person can give to another. It the single most perfect imitation of what Christ did for us on the cross. Every selfish mortal and venial sin that you might possibly have on your soul pales to nothing in comparison with the graces and virtues such an act requires of you. Put simply: If you are truly willing to lay down your own life to save another (especially your children), then you cannot possibly be in a state of mortal sin, and you will go straight to heaven if you die. There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for a friend.

And it’s written in the New Testament (the Epistles, I think, but I cannot remember) that “love covers many sins.”

 

[seeker63]

So if I didn’t have the luxury of a priest of Eucharistic minister or anybody around, if I was to die alone before going to Confession, but had planned to go, would I be covered? If you were suddenly attacked and killed without preparation? Would you be covered if you died while praying? I was walking downtown in an unfamiliar city around 3am recently, making my way to an all-night restaurant, but was worried I’d get attacked. I pretty much prayed one “Hail Mary” after another until I reached my destination.

 

[Al_Masetti]

What a super collection of responses! Really great!!

“Greater love hath no man than if he gives up his life for his friends.”

---

The whole topic of “Moral Theology” is so fascinating because in no small measure, there is an aspect of subjectivity to it.

If you read Volume 3 of Germain Grisez’s “Difficult Moral Questions”, it goes on for pages and pages on hundreds of examples.

For decades I have been plagued by scrupulousity, but I am starting to come around to the idea that God is definitely NOT hovering over us, just waiting for one slip-up so He can thrust us into the unquenchable fires of eternal Hell.

Meditate on the concept of God’s INFINITY… and of His infinite goodness and infinite mercy. [Of course, don’t do anything TOTALLY crazy… even infinity has its “limits”… that’s a joke.]

---

Supposedly on this deathbed, at the moment of his death, Joseph Stalin shook his fist at God. I kind of got a chuckle at that… was it the ultimate in arrogant insults? Or something else?

There is a poem about a knight on horse who was struck by an arrow, fell from the saddle, and received forgiveness before he hit the ground.

 

[Mike_Gallagher]

To second Al Masetti,
Thanks one and all for the great replies to my question. What a good thing to be able to bring a question like this to the forum and have answers of this calibre in a matter of hours.
Thanks again.
Mike

 

[Podo2005]

Mike Gallagher:

I was thinking the other day about a hypothetical scenario and I would like to know what others think about it.

You have committed a mortal sin and have not yet been to confession. Out with your children you suddenly face some sort of situation where in order to save the lives of your children, you must give your own away.(e.g. you need to push the kids out of the way of a truck) Either that, or you can save your life at the expense of the childrens’ and live to have a chance to go to confession.

Knowing your kids would certainly go to heaven, being baptised and under the age of accountability, and knowing you would go to hell in a state of mortal sin, would saving your own life be the better choice? Or, could you trust that this last selfless action could be a self imposed penance as sorrow for your sins? You only have a few seconds to choose…

I’d push the kids out of the way. Trust me, our God is a merciful God and I think that at this moment when you had a conversion of heart( you did something good) God forgave you.

Podo

 

[wcknight]

No one should ever discount the seriousness of mortal sins, BUT God is merciful, and we have every opportunity to repent of our sins, even if we can not immediately get to confession.

After any sin we should always ask for forgiveness with all sincerity especially in case some major mishap occurs.

IF one commits a mortal sin and has every intention to go to confession as soon as they can, they are covered.
If we commit a mortal sin and have no intention of repenting, then we will be in deep trouble.

 

[David_Zampino]

Mike Gallagher:

I was thinking the other day about a hypothetical scenario and I would like to know what others think about it.

You have committed a mortal sin and have not yet been to confession. Out with your children you suddenly face some sort of situation where in order to save the lives of your children, you must give your own away.(e.g. you need to push the kids out of the way of a truck) Either that, or you can save your life at the expense of the childrens’ and live to have a chance to go to confession.

Knowing your kids would certainly go to heaven, being baptised and under the age of accountability, and knowing you would go to hell in a state of mortal sin, would saving your own life be the better choice? Or, could you trust that this last selfless action could be a self imposed penance as sorrow for your sins? You only have a few seconds to choose…

From this scenario, it is obvious that you realize that you are in a state of mortal sin and are presumably contrite. I don’t believe that hell would truly be an option here.

Just my two cents worth . . .

 

[Orionthehunter]

Podo2005:

I’d push the kids out of the way. Trust me, our God is a merciful God and I think that at this moment when you had a conversion of heart( you did something good) God forgave you.

Podo

I don’t recall the exact theological concept but the Church asserts that when one dies in an act of living the Faith (martyrdom) there is an absolution granted. Confusion is that one must die directly in defense of the faith. However, Martin Luther King, Jr. has been declared a martyr despite not being Catholic and the fact he wasn’t killed while in the act of promoting the Gospel’s values.

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

I don’t recall the exact theological concept but the Church asserts that when one dies in an act of living the Faith (martyrdom) there is an absolution granted. Confusion is that one must die directly in defense of the faith. However, Martin Luther King, Jr. has been declared a martyr despite not being Catholic and the fact he wasn’t killed while in the act of promoting the Gospel’s values.

Could you show us where MLK was declared a martyr by the CC?

 

[Orionthehunter]

fix:

Could you show us where MLK was declared a martyr by the CC?

Fix, do you doubt everything I say? But anyway, here is an article that says he was nominated by the American Bishops. I have yet to find one that the Pope selected him.

nd.edu/~observer/01212000/News/1.html

The following provides further illumination.

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=62822

It appears that even if MLK was declared a martyr this declaration is distinct from the martyrs who are also saints so at least from what I can find there is some distinction of different types of martyrs.

However, if you read this later article it doesn’t repudiate my statement about spilling your blood and losing your life in an act to live the Gospel has a redemptive quality as regards to the hypothetical of the OP. Please fix don’t use my confusion regarding MLK as a means to lose the point of my post.

 

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

Fix, do you doubt everything I say? But anyway, here is an article that says he was nominated by the American Bishops. I have yet to find one that the Pope selected him…

I question things, particularly statements that are not accurate. MLK has not been declared a martyr. I was surprised to see you state it and thought I had missed something, so I asked for clarification and I thank you for clarifying it.

 

[Romick]

Could I enter this scenario here?

If a person dies of a sudden heart attack while living in a state of adultery (let’s assume no chance for even a verbal confession), what does the lawful wife and the church do about his burial? Can he be buried in the church with a full Mass? It would be difficult to determine Christ’s judgment probably, but he would definitely be in a state of Mortal sin, having caused enormous pain to his family and willingly broken the 6th Commandment. However, to add to the scenario, the man is alcoholic, if that should count.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Mike Gallagher:

You have committed a mortal sin and have not yet been to confession.

Firstly, you need a background on Catholic moral theology…

Remission of sin is not always withheld until Sacramental absolution.

For example if one had sorrow for sin because of fear of punishment, and not primarly because of their love of God, then they have what we call “attrition” or “imperfect contrition.” In such a case, their mortal sins are not remitted until sacramental absolution. If they don’t have sorrow for sin, even of “attrition” then even sacramental absolution will not remit sin, as one of the conditions of absolution is sorrow for sin.

However, if one had sorrow for sin primarily due to their love for God above all things, then this is called “perfect contrition” or “contrition of charity.” In such instances, all sins are forgiven even before sacramental absolution.

Now, to answer your question …

Out with your children you suddenly face some sort of situation where in order to save the lives of your children, you must give your own away.(e.g. you need to push the kids out of the way of a truck) Either that, or you can save your life at the expense of the childrens’ and live to have a chance to go to confession.

Whenever you sin, be it mortal or venial, Catholics ought to have contrition of charity. If they don’t love God above all things at every moment of their existence, they certainly risk damnation no matter what they choose to do.

In your scenario, say our Catholic lacked love of God above all else, but does fear punishment and so is sorrowful for his sin. If he did not yet receive sacramental absolution, he is at risk of damnation. His fault for not loving God above all else.

He ought to risk his life for his children’s sake even in this instance, as such an act is an act of charity, which according to Scripture, “love covers a multitude of sins.”

Let’s say that in your scenario, the Catholic did in fact love God above all else, and had true sorrow (contrition of charity) for his past sins primarily because his sins offend God, whom he loves so very much. In this case, his sins are remitted even if he has not received sacramental absolution. If he were to die, he would die in a state of grace and not be damned to hell even if he never got a chance to receive sacramental absolution as he intended before his untimely death.

Knowing your kids would certainly go to heaven, being baptised and under the age of accountability

I think such a thing is a sin of presumption. We can have hopeful confidence, but I find no passage in Scripture which tells me what this supposed “age of accountability” is. All we can do is place our hope in Christ’s mercy, and not presume that our children (or anybody) deserves heaven.

Hopeful confidence is a virtue which rests in the middle of the two sinful extremes of despair and presumption.

, and knowing you would go to hell in a state of mortal sin

Again, this is a sin…this time of despair. We cannot know we are going to hell, no more than we can know we are going to heaven. We Catholics leave that up to God.

would saving your own life be the better choice?

I think you know the answer by now. Love covers a mutitude of sins. Selfishness covers nothing.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

… what you should do if you are dying in mortal sin and what the appropriate actions should be.

Hmmmmm…I don’t recommend waiting until you are dying (and I’m sure you are not either).

Sorrow is a gift from God. Dont’ reject it, but embrace it, because once you are sorry for your sin, you know God has just reached out to you with a Divine gift. Pray to God as soon as you are conscious of sin, mortal or venial. If one prays the Act of Contrition (ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/contrit.htm) and truly means what they pray, then they truly are forgiven of all sin.

Now, if one finds that they are sorry primarily because of fear of punishment and NOT primarily because you love God above all else, then you have a serious problem in your faith life. You need to work out this problem RIGHT NOW, not later, because later may be too late.

 

[David_Zampino]

itsjustdave1988:

I think such a thing is a sin of presumption. We can have hopeful confidence, but I find no passage in Scripture which tells me what this supposed “age of accountability” is. All we can do is place our hope in Christ’s mercy, and not presume that our children (or anybody) deserves heaven.

A bit of a disagreement here . . . while"age of accountability" is not necessarily a good phrase, “age of reason” has been used in Catholic moral theology for time out of mind. Typically, before one has reached the “age of reason” one is not morally capable of even committing a mortal sin. Thus, it is not presumption to suppose that a baptized child who has not attained the “age of reason” and who dies is destined for heaven. This is one reason that, prior to “liturgical reform” that white was used at the funeral of a young child (instead of black or violet); and that the church bells were pealed, rather than tolled. I would suspect (though I have not looked it up) that the same would hold true for the severely retarded.

Just my two cents worth . . .