Dying in a state of mortal sin

[itsjustdave1988]

David Zampino:

A bit of a disagreement here . . . while"age of accountability" is not necessarily a good phrase, “age of reason” has been used in Catholic moral theology for time out of mind. Typically, before one has reached the “age of reason” one is not morally capable of even committing a mortal sin. Thus, it is not presumption to suppose that a baptized child who has not attained the “age of reason” and who dies is destined for heaven. This is one reason that, prior to “liturgical reform” that white was used at the funeral of a young child (instead of black or violet); and that the church bells were pealed, rather than tolled. I would suspect (though I have not looked it up) that the same would hold true for the severely retarded.

Just my two cents worth . . .

Yes, but has the Catholic Church ever declared what the “age of reason” is? I don’t know when such an age occurs, do you? Is such a thing of practical use in the scenario above?

I agree that at any age, if one does not have full advertence in committing grave sin and have perfect consent of the will in doing so, then guilt is diminished. This occurs at any age. My mother-in-law, bless her soul, is living proof that the so-called “age of reason” may never occur in this lifetime (sorry… that was uncalled for).

 

[David_Zampino]

itsjustdave1988:

Yes, but has the Catholic Church ever declared what the “age of reason” is? I don’t know when such an age occurs, do you? Is such a thing of practical use in the scenario above?

According the the Catholic Answers own website, the age of reason is seven years, which dovetails with what I have taught and have been taught.

itsjustdave1988:

I agree that at any age, if one does not have full advertence in committing grave sin and have perfect consent of the will in doing so, then guilt is diminished. This occurs at any age. My mother-in-law, bless her soul, is living proof that the so-called “age of reason” may never occur in this lifetime (sorry… that was uncalled for).

Agreed fully! (And I won’t make any mother-in-law jokes either!

 

[David_Zampino]

David Zampino:

According the the Catholic Answers own website, the age of reason is seven years, which dovetails with what I have taught and have been taught.

I did a bit of research. Here is what I found from the Code of Canon Law (1983).

TITLE VI.

PHYSICAL AND JURIDIC PERSONS (Cann. 96 - 123)

CHAPTER I.

THE CANONICAL CONDITION OF PHYSICAL PERSONS

Can. 96 By baptism one is incorporated into the Church of Christ and is constituted a person in it with the duties and rights which are proper to Christians in keeping with their condition, insofar as they are in ecclesiastical communion and unless a legitimately issued sanction stands in the way.

Can. 97 §1. A person who has completed the eighteenth year of age has reached majority; below this age, a person is a minor.
*
§2. A minor before the completion of the seventh year is called an infant and is considered not responsible for oneself (non sui compos). With the completion of the seventh year, however, a minor is presumed to have the use of reason.*

 

[akitapip]

This is a discussion forum so let me inject another angle. Alot of people on this thread have, in a sort of flippant way, said that God is merciful and they would choose to save the kids. Isn’t this mind-boggingly reckless considering the outcome of this. Imagine this. You save your kid’s earthly life and in doing so you are killed. Lights out, fade to black. Your next consciousness (for lack of a better word) is in complete desolation and darkness. You have the immediate and unspoken awareness that you missed salvation. You are eternally separated from God. There you are, all alone, for ever and ever and ever. You wonder if your loved ones are in a similar situation, if they too are eternally separated from God. But you know you will never, ever, know. You have all of eternity to think about one fact: there is one hard and fast rule, that if you die in a state of mortal sin, you will go to Hell for all of eternity.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, the good news is that God is infinitely merciful and infinitely just. Trust Him and do what He asks. We don’t know His mind, which is infinitely above ours, but He certainly gave us knowledge of His infinite love when He sent His only begotten Son to redeem us and His Spirit to guide us.

Praise God.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

akitapip:

…considering the outcome of this.

My point is that it is a sin of presumption to claim to know the outcome. Whether one’s presumption is that they are going to heaven or they despair that they are going to hell, it is a sin, because you take upon yourself a perogative proper to God alone.

**St. Athanasius (ca. AD 358): **"when someone falls from the Spirit through any wickedness—that grace indeed remains irrevocably with those who are willing to repent after such a fall. (Discourses Against the Arians, 3, 24-25, ca. AD 358 )

 

[akitapip]

itsjustdave1988:

My point is that it is a sin of presumption to claim to know the outcome. Whether one’s presumption is that they are going to heaven or they despair that they are going to hell, it is a sin, because you take upon yourself a perogative proper to God alone.

**St. Athanasius (ca. AD 358): **"when someone falls from the Spirit through any wickedness—that grace indeed remains irrevocably with those who are willing to repent after such a fall. (Discourses Against the Arians, 3, 24-25, ca. AD 358 )

Thank you for this Dave.