Dying without Confession

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Monica4316

Guest
Hi,

This topic came up in a different thread and I’m sort of confused about it… we know that imperfect contrition is not enough to take away mortal sin, we need Confession for that, but that perfect contrition can obtain forgiveness without Confession (though if the person can, they should still confess their sins as soon as possible).

Well is this the same in the case of death? What if a person has mortal sin, and only imperfect contrition, but intends to go to Confession asap, - yet they are somehow prevented to? For example… take the classic example of the person being hit by a bus on their way to Confession. Would this person still be forgiven?

Please can someone provide a quote from Church documents for me? thank you!! 🙂
 
I was told in RCIA that if someone genuinely intends to attend confession and is truly repentant but have the misfortune to die before they can go then they are forgiven.

I don’t know of any Church documents but that’s just what I was taught.
 
God can come with the needed grace …even in the last moments of life…(it is still always his grace that gives us again true life…via the grace of perfect contrition) and especially a person on the way to confession and gets struck down by a bus etc…one can have good hope in their regards…

Let us always turn to him in the virtue of hope…he loves us and desires we have always true life…
 
PerfectTiming said:
I was told in RCIA that if someone genuinely intends to attend confession and is truly repentant but have the misfortune to die before they can go then they are forgiven.

I don’t know of any Church documents but that’s just what I was taught.
Click to expand...
This is what I learned as well. Fr. said it in a wonderful way (not sure if he came up with it or heard it somewhere else): ‘God works through the Sacraments, but He is not limited to the Sacraments.’

In other words, God knows your heart and, if you intended to confess but were tragically killed before you could do it, God will forgive your sins.
 
achmafooma said:
This is what I learned as well. Fr. said it in a wonderful way (not sure if he came up with it or heard it somewhere else): ‘God works through the Sacraments, but He is not limited to the Sacraments.’
Click to expand...
Yes, I can’t remember where it was but I read someone saying that just because God instituted these sacraments does not mean He is limited by them.
 
Isaiah 59:1 No, the arm of Yahweh is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear,

peace
 
It’s great that we were taught the same in our RCIA classes. In mine we said, we are bound by the sacraments, but God is not.
 
I was told by a Catholic priest that prior to actually going to confession, a person has already “confessed” to God spiritually. Meaning, the person wouldn’t be going to confession in the first place if he didn’t realize the need to go. The actual physical act of going to the priest and confessing should be secondary to the personal confession to God prior to the priest hearing the confession. The role of the priest is to hear the confession and give the proper absolution for the mortal sin, not to actually “forgive” the sin. If a person knows they have commited a mortal sin, and intend to confess that sin, they have already, in their heart, confessed that sin to God. God can forgive sin without the presence of a priest actually hearing the sin. So if a person was about to die and confessed their sin to God, but a priest wasn’t available to absolve that sin, the sin would still be forgiven by God. Absolution would be attained in Purgatory (considering you hold that belief).
 
Monica4316 said:
we know that imperfect contrition is not enough to take away mortal sin, we need Confession for that, but that perfect contrition can obtain forgiveness without Confession (though if the person can, they should still confess their sins as soon as possible).
Click to expand...
Yes. As the Catechism says,
For contrition to forgive mortal sins it must arise out of our love of God. “When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called ‘perfect’ (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible” (CCC 1452).
Click to expand...
If the act itself includes the “firm resolution” to seek sacramental confession then the untimely intervention of the wayward bus is of no consequence.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hi,

This topic came up in a different thread and I’m sort of confused about it… we know that imperfect contrition is not enough to take away mortal sin, we need Confession for that, but that perfect contrition can obtain forgiveness without Confession (though if the person can, they should still confess their sins as soon as possible).

Well is this the same in the case of death? What if a person has mortal sin, and only imperfect contrition, but intends to go to Confession asap, - yet they are somehow prevented to? For example… take the classic example of the person being hit by a bus on their way to Confession. Would this person still be forgiven?

Please can someone provide a quote from Church documents for me? thank you!! 🙂
Click to expand...
This was already discussed in the other thread.
The Church teaching is clear. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell. An act of imperfect contrition before going to Confession does not forgive mortal sins. Going to Confession but dying on the way there does not turn imperfect contrition into perfect contrition. If a person dies on the way to Confession only having made an act of imperfect contrition they die in a state of mortal sin and are not saved.
 
thistle said:
This was already discussed in the other thread.
The Church teaching is clear. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell. An act of imperfect contrition before going to Confession does not forgive mortal sins. Going to Confession but dying on the way there does not turn imperfect contrition into perfect contrition. If a person dies on the way to Confession only having made an act of imperfect contrition they die in a state of mortal sin and are not saved.
Click to expand...
Yes, but one can reach perfect contrition at even the very last millisecond before death. More importantly, God knows our intent. The Sacrament is the proper way to receive absolution in this life, but God does not condemn people to eternal damnation because they desired to receive the Sacrament but were unable (not through their own fault) to receive it in time. He never demands the impossible of us.

God bless you.
 
achmafooma said:
Yes, but one can reach perfect contrition at even the very last millisecond before death. More importantly, God knows our intent. The Sacrament is the proper way to receive absolution in this life, but God does not condemn people to eternal damnation because they desired to receive the Sacrament but were unable (not through their own fault) to receive it in time. He never demands the impossible of us.

God bless you.
Click to expand...
I completely agree that a person would be able to make an act of perfect contrition any time up to their death. That is not the issue in this thread.
The OP is asking if a person who has only made an act of imperfect contrition and dies on the way to Confession is saved. The answer is no. Imperfect contrition does not forgive sins. That is the Church teaching.
The action of going to Confession does not turn imperfect contrition into perfect contrition.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hi,

This topic came up in a different thread and I’m sort of confused about it… we know that imperfect contrition is not enough to take away mortal sin, we need Confession for that, but that perfect contrition can obtain forgiveness without Confession (though if the person can, they should still confess their sins as soon as possible).

Well is this the same in the case of death? What if a person has mortal sin, and only imperfect contrition, but intends to go to Confession asap, - yet they are somehow prevented to? For example… take the classic example of the person being hit by a bus on their way to Confession. Would this person still be forgiven?

Please can someone provide a quote from Church documents for me? thank you!! 🙂
Click to expand...
Christ knows the heart of all.
 
thistle said:
I completely agree that a person would be able to make an act of perfect contrition any time up to their death. That is not the issue in this thread.
The OP is asking if a person who has only made an act of imperfect contrition and dies on the way to Confession is saved. The answer is no. Imperfect contrition does not forgive sins. That is the Church teaching.
Click to expand...
Is it? Would you please cite this teaching?

Granted, the Church clearly teaches that perfect contrition (with the intent to seek Confession as soon as possible) remits mortal sin, but does the Church actually teach that imperfect contrition (with the same intent) does not remit mortal sin, provided the person died before having access to this Sacrament? Actually, I am pretty sure the Church has not formally taught the answer to this question. But I am willing to stand corrected by an authoritative citation.

The Church recognizes Baptism of Desire (and its close cousin, Baptism of Blood) as imparting the Grace of Baptism to those who are prohibited from actually receiving the Sacrament. I do not claim that the Church has endorsed a similar recognition for Confession, but I do claim that the Church has never repudiated it either, and thus we cannot state unequivocally that the possibility of such Grace is contrary to Catholic doctrine.
 
DavidFilmer said:
Is it? Would you please cite this teaching?

Granted, the Church clearly teaches that perfect contrition (with the intent to seek Confession as soon as possible) remits mortal sin, but does the Church actually teach that imperfect contrition (with the same intent) does not remit mortal sin, provided the person died before having access to this Sacrament? Actually, I am pretty sure the Church has not formally taught the answer to this question. But I am willing to stand corrected by an authoritative citation.

The Church recognizes Baptism of Desire (and its close cousin, Baptism of Blood) as imparting the Grace of Baptism to those who are prohibited from actually receiving the Sacrament. I do not claim that the Church has endorsed a similar recognition for Confession, but I do claim that the Church has never repudiated it either, and thus we cannot state unequivocally that the possibility of such Grace is contrary to Catholic doctrine.
Click to expand...
a) The Church teaches that dying in a state of mortal sin means a person goes to Hell.
b) The Church teaches that an act of imperfect contrition does not forgive sins which means a person remains in a state of mortal sin without an actual Confession to a priest.
The Church does NOT teach that the act of going to Confession makes imperfect contrition into perfect contrition. If it did it would say so in the CCC. The CCC does not contain such a teaching therefore a) and b) above prevail.
In your example about Baptism of Desire the Church has a teaching and it is in the CCC.
If there is no teaching on a particular subject in the CCC it means there is no teaching.
 
thistle said:
The Church does NOT teach that the act of going to Confession makes imperfect contrition into perfect contrition.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure it does (at least in effect). Going to Confession negates the difference between perfect and imperfect contrition.
In your example about Baptism of Desire the Church has a teaching and it is in the CCC. If there is no teaching on a particular subject in the CCC it means there is no teaching.
Click to expand...
Well, you and I have disagreed before on the notion that the CCC is either infallible or contains the whole of Catholic doctrine (I steadfastly maintain that it does neither). However, we agree on this particular point - the CCC does not say one way or another with regard to this particular question. Which means we cannot say one way or another, absent some more authoritative source (of which there is none).

Do you really want to claim that “Qui Tacet Consentit” is a valid argument for Catholic doctrine?
 
DavidFilmer said:
I’m pretty sure it does (at least in effect). Going to Confession negates the difference between perfect and imperfect contrition.

Well, you and I have disagreed before on the notion that the CCC is either infallible or contains the whole of Catholic doctrine (I steadfastly maintain that it does neither). However, we agree on this particular point - the CCC does not say one way or another with regard to this particular question. Which means we cannot say one way or another, absent some more authoritative source (of which there is none).

Do you really want to claim that “Qui Tacet Consentit” is a valid argument for Catholic doctrine?
Click to expand...
You say the Church teaches going to Confession negates the difference between perfect and imperfect contrition. Show me in the CCC where it teaches that or even hints at that.

Read CCC 1453 carefully. It is very clear. Imperfect contrition by itself does not forgive sins but motivates a person into going to Confession.However, the process is only completed by Confession to a priest and receiving absolution. How can that be any clearer? No forgiveness without Confession. Not going or not getting to Confession because of death does not change that.

CCC 1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

As to your last point, the fact that the CCC is silent on your point about going to Confession turning imperfect contrition into perfect contrition means the Church does not teach that.

Quick edit to cover one thing I forgot. Why do you keep bringing up the issue of you maintaining the CCC is not infallible. Who has ever said it is.
The CCC contains a summary of ALL the teachings of the Church, both infallible and non-infallible. Whether a particular teaching is infallible or non-infallible is not relevant to the fact you must accept both types of teaching.
 
It seems like the answer to this quesion for Catholics is each time you think that you might have committed a mortal sin–make an act of perfect contrition for that sin–that way you’re covered if you die on the way to confession or you die in your sleep intending to confess the next morning.

Also make sure if you have Catholic relatives that they make sure that you’re given the Anointing of the Sick if you’re comatose and on the verge of dying.

That way even though you have Imperfect contrition as thistle says that WON’T be forgiven because you didn’t receive confession in time–ANOINTING of the Sick WILL forgive mortal sins on your soul if you have IMPERFECT CONTRITION fpr those sins and WOULD HAVE asked for Anointing of the Sick if you were able to do so.

Seems to me like Anointing of the Sick can result in FORGIVENESS in some situations that Confession can’t.

Am I right or wrong about that?
 
Attrition is, in my opinion, made perfect by overwhelming desire to go to Confession.
The beauty of the sacrament of Confession is that it is an act of exposing yourself such that God may have mercy upon you. If you do not fully trust in God’s mercy, then receiving any sacrament, especially Reconciliation, would be absolutely pointless!
This translates into the distinct difference between attrition and contrition.
If you are going to Confession, are you not wanting God above all things and thus performing an act of contrition? It is an outward sign of their contrition (already made) by motive and will.
A person cannot want the sacrament of Confession for the purpose of themselves, otherwise it would not be reconciliation with the Church. It would be reconciliation with themselves, and for what they desire-- lack of fear. If the person wants to be reconciled with the Church, they want what God wants–love (because the Church is an outward sign of God’s love), and thus their will (for forgiveness) AND motive (for love) is in tandem with God’s.
If the person lacks the motive or the will, they are not in tandem with God, and thus attrition.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top