Early Christians and the Real Presence

[scapularkid8]

I’m curious to know more about how the early Christians celebrated the Mass and viewed the Eucharist. As in, around the time where they didn’t define themselves as Christians, just Jews, but Gentiles were allowed to worship and Communion was practiced.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Read the Letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, where he clearly says, “The Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Christ”, and instructed the faithful to have nothing to do with those who do not believe this.

 

[Tietjen]

Read the Letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, where he clearly says, “The Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Christ”, and instructed the faithful to have nothing to do with those who do not believe this.

To expand on that, you should be able to read the letters of St. Ignatius here. This first page is a letter to the Romans. Click on the other letters that he wrote (at the top of the page) to read those as well. God bless. You might find it interesting to know that St. Ignatius is the first one that we know of to refer to the Church as “Catholic.” He did so in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans. It’s believed that this letter was written about 105 AD but it most certainly was written before his death in 115 AD. God bless.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A priest friend of mine, gave a wonderful talk to my OCDS group on the history of the Mass, going back to the first century Church.

He’s currently finishing his doctorate degree on liturgy in Rome.

I’ve asked if he’ll write a book on the history of the Mass, and he said perhaps, but first will need some time off, after he gets his PHD.

I hope he does it, for his talk was most informative and an eye opener, for us who assume the Mass we have today, or even the TLM, was anything close to what was in the 1st century, or for that matter, for the first 1500 years of the Church.

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

All you have to do is read St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians. That should give you a pretty good indication on how the early Church viewed the Euchairst.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me.

25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.

27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

30 Therefore are there many inform and weak among you, and many sleep.

The Didache is also another good example.

Chapter 9. — The Thanksgiving (Eucharist)

1. Now concerning the Thanksgiving (Eucharist), thus give thanks. 2. First, concerning the cup: We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory for ever. 3. And concerning the broken bread: We thank You, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory for ever. 4. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Your kingdom; for Yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever. 5. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6

Actually, the lyrics to Father, We Thank Thee Who Has Planted are based, in part, on the Didache.

Furthermore, in his homilies, Pope Benedict refers to the 400 North African martyrs who, in the third century, faced their persecution with the rallying cry, “we cannot live without Sunday.” Thus, the Day of the Lord was most important to the Early Church.

 

[NotWorthy]

St. Justin Martyr, around 155AD, documented the what goes on at the Mass. I believe it’s the oldest known detail of the Mass. You can clearly see today’s Mass in his words.

All [Christians] who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much a time permits. When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. Then we all rise together and offer prayers for ourselves… and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss [of peace].
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (In Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying; “Amen.”

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.

Can you see:

• The readings and the Gospel
• The Homily
• The Petitions
• Sign of Peace (although this is done earlier in the Mass than we do)
• Presentation of the Gifts
• Eucharistic Prayer
• Doxology and Great Amen
• Eucharist
• Send those out to distribute the Eucharist to the sick and elderly.

It’s amazing all those details that we still see!

 

[NotWorthy]

Look at the words of Hippolytus (around 236AD) as he describes a Eucharistic Prayer. See if you can hear the words of a priest today in these words. It’s amazing!

*The bishop lays his hands upon the bread and wine and water offered upon the altar and begins the following dialogue:

• Bishop: The Lord be with you.

Congregation: And with thy spirit.

Bishop: Hearts up.

Congregation: We have them to the Lord.

Bishop: Let us give thanks to the Lord.

Congregation: It is meet and right.

Bishop: We thank thee, God, through Thy beloved Servant Jesus Christ, whom in the last times Thou hast sent us as Savior and redeemer and Messenger of Thy counsel, the Logos who comes from Thee, through whom Thou hast made all things, whom Thou wast pleased to send from heaven into the womb of the virgin, and in her body he became flesh and was shown forth as Thy Son, born of the Holy Spirit and the virgin. To fulfill Thy will and to prepare Thee a holy people, he stretched out his hands, when he suffered, that he might release from suffering those who have believed on Thee.
And when he delivered himself to a voluntary passion, to loose death and to break asunder the bands of the devil, and to trample hell and to enlighten the righteous and to set up the boundary stone and to manifest the resurrection, he took a loaf, gave thanks, and spake, “Take, eat, this is my body which is given for you.” Likewise also the cup and said, “This is my blood which is poured out for you. As often as you do this, you make my commemoration.”

Remembering therefore his death and resurrection, we offer to Thee the loaf and the cup and give thanks to Thee that Thou hast counted us worthy to stand before Thee and to do Thee priestly service.

And we beseech Thee, that Thou send down Thy holy Spirit upon this offering of the church. Unite it and grant to all the saints who partake of it to their fulfilling with holy Spirit, to their strengthening of faith in truth, that we may praise and glorify Thee through Thy Servant Jesus Christ, through whom to Thee be glory and honour in Thy holy Church now and ever. Amen.

 

[scapularkid8]

…OH MY!! That IS the same as the one we still use…WOW! God is so Good.

 

[benedictgal]

Mike Aquila has a book out called The Mass of the Early Christians. I have it (although it’s at home). When I get off work, I’ll read through it again and I’ll post some chunks for us to peruse.

 

[NotWorthy]

Mike Aquila has a book out called The Mass of the Early Christians. I have it (although it’s at home). When I get off work, I’ll read through it again and I’ll post some chunks for us to peruse.

Great Book!!! I think you’ll find both the quotes I posted in that book. It really is a wonderful read.

 

[NotWorthy]

…OH MY!! That IS the same as the one we still use…WOW! God is so Good.

Interestly, I think the next change in the Mass will bring us back to these words over the ones we use:

Bishop: The Lord be with you.

Congregation: And with thy spirit.

Bishop: Hearts up.

Congregation: We have them to the Lord.

 

[scapularkid8]

As a quick side note, when are these changes due? I know the Spirit moves as He Wills, but has work started on this?

 

[NotWorthy]

As a quick side note, when are these changes due? I know the Spirit moves as He Wills, but has work started on this?

I understand they are coming soon. My priest accompanied our bishop to the conference in L.A. (?) where they come up with the changes. I believe the Pope has to sign off on them, which I think he has. Of course, then you’ve got 100’s of 1000’s of Missals to coordinate the re-printing of.

 

[Rolltide]

I understand they are coming soon. My priest accompanied our bishop to the conference in L.A. (?) where they come up with the changes. I believe the Pope has to sign off on them, which I think he has. Of course, then you’ve got 100’s of 1000’s of Missals to coordinate the re-printing of.

The rough drafts are now mostly complete, and the final drafts are being worked on. The latest estimate for their release is sometime in late 2010. Both Father Z’s Blog and the Adoremus Website have good information that keep people up-to-date on the status of the new translations by the Vox Clara Commission.

 

[thistle]

therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/fathers.htm

 

[NotWorthy]

Jeff Cavins talked of a book he wrote, and in this book he detailed the Church leaders from the first century to today all writing of the Real Presence. To prove it, he was able to produce Church writings from every generation of the Church’s 2000 year history. I think his claim was that nothing has been so consistent in the Church’s History of writings as the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

I’m not sure which book this is, but I’d love to get it.

 

[japhy]

I hope he does it, for his talk was most informative and an eye opener, for us who assume the Mass we have today, or even the TLM, was anything close to what was in the 1st century, or for that matter, for the first 1500 years of the Church.

To be fair, the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer I) is over a thousand years old, and the “Tridentine” liturgy did not come into existence 500 years ago, but is much much older as well. Certainly, the liturgy in AD 100 doesn’t resemble the “Traditional Latin Mass”, although the liturgy in the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great (around the end of the 6th century) does resemble the TLM, although it certainly developed organically over time.

Look at the words of Hippolytus (around 236AD) as he describes a Eucharistic Prayer. See if you can hear the words of a priest today in these words. It’s amazing!

That anaphora (Eucharistic Prayer II) was “resurrected” after Vatican II, although as Hippolytus explains it is proper to a bishop at the Liturgy of his ordination, and even then it was offered only as a guide. (Sadly, a lot of Catholics hear that prayer, the shortest one, every single week.)

 

[NotWorthy]

TThat anaphora (Eucharistic Prayer II) was “resurrected” after Vatican II, although as Hippolytus explains it is proper to a bishop at the Liturgy of his ordination, and even then it was offered only as a guide. (Sadly, a lot of Catholics hear that prayer, the shortest one, every single week.)

Yes, the Eucharistic Prayer II used to be one of my favorites, for it meant I could get off those “dang” kneelers all the more quickly!

Now, I love to hear any of the extended Eucharistic Prayers so I can enjoy the beauty of those prayers!