Early Church Fathers and Sola Scriptura

[haparker321]

Readers,

While I believe there may be some legitimacy to honor the authority of oral tradition i.e., in the sense of scriptural teaching, I do not find either in Scriptures or the Early Church Fathers that this supersedes the authority of the Scriptures. As I continue to read these doctrines put forth by the fathers, I am going to share a couple of interesting quotes suggest even they submitted to the authority of the scriptures, and not the church. In other words, whatever teaching the church proclaims her beliefs must be derived from the Scriptures.

“On consideration, your Majesty, of the reason wherefore men have so far gone astray, or that many—alas!—should follow diverse ways of belief concerning the Son of God, the marvel seems to be, not at all that human knowledge has been baffled in dealing with superhuman things, but that it has not submitted to the authority of the Scriptures”
-St. Ambrose (Book Four, Chapter 1, verse 1).

“Have thou ever in your mind this seal , which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.”
-Cyril of Jerusalem (Lecture 4, point 17)

“For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith.”
-Cyril of Jerusalem (Lecture 5, point 12)

“Why then do you busy yourself about things which not even the Holy Ghost has written in the Scriptures? Thou that know not the things which are written, busiest you yourself about the things which are not written? There are many questions in the Divine Scriptures; what is written we comprehend not, why do we busy ourselves about what is not written? It is sufficient for us to know that God has begotten One Only Son.”
-Cyril of Jerusalem (Lecture 11, point 12)

“But that we may not appear to build our assertions on subjects of such importance and difficulty on the ground of inference alone, or to require the assent of our hearers to what is only conjectural, let us see whether we can obtain any declarations from holy Scripture, by the authority of which these positions may be more credibly maintained.”
-**Origen **(De Principiis Book I, Chapter 5, section 4)

Although I do think many will disagree on these key issues, I am hoping there will be some counter evidences presented to support the negative (i.e., the ECF’s never adhered to the authority of the Scripture or believed Scriptures were insufficient like the proponents of Sola Scriptura believe). Again, if this is not what the ECF’s assert, then provide some alternative.

Parker

 

[Barbkw]

Riddle me this:

What positions did these men hold (or not hold) Cyril of Jerusalem, Origen, and St. Ambose? Why and how were they ordained?

In addition, the Catholic Church structures itself off three pillars:

Sacred Scripture
Sacred Tradition
the Magisterium (bishops and the Pope)

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a2.htm#81

Catechism of the Catholic Church

81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church’s Magisterium.

 

[JRKH]

I think that you are laboring under a false assumption. It appears that you seem to think that we place tradition voer Scripture… Which is not the case…
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are co-equals with one supporting the other…
For an exposition on this I suggest reading HERE in the catechism of the Church.

In the best summary of this I offer this paragrpah from the linked section.
95 “It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls.”

In addition to the above, the Catechism has many paragraphs where the terms Scripture and Tradition are used together. HERE is a listing of all of them…

If you read through these sections and, if you care to, through the footnoted documents, I’m sure you will find the Scriptural and ECF quotes that you seek.

The bottom line on this is that Scripture is just as vital to the Catholic Church as it is to any Protestant Church. Scripture stands as a foundational piece of our faith. Sacred Tradition is likewise a foundational piece. And the third peice is the Teaching authority of the Church, which is evident in both of the previous two.
This combination is likened to a “three legged stool”, remove any one of the three legs and the stool topples over.

Peace
James

 

[JM3]

St. Ambrose in a letter to his sister

Letter 22

1. But I ask what it is that they do not believe; is it whether any one can be aided by the martyrs? This is the same thing as not to believe Christ, for He Himself said: “Ye shall do greater things than these.” How? By those martyrs whose merits have been long efficacious, whose bodies were long since found? Here I ask, do they bear a grudge against me, or against the holy martyrs? If against me, are any miracles wrought by me? by my means or in my name? Why, then, grudge me what is not mine? If it be against the martyrs (for if they bear no grudge against me, it can only be against them), they show that the martyrs were of another faith than that which they believe. For otherwise they would not have any feeling against their works, did they not judge that they have not the faith which was in them, that faith established by the tradition of our forefathers, which the devils themselves cannot deny, but the Arians do.

 

[JM3]

Origen

Contra Celsus, Book III

CHAP. XV.
But again, that it is not the fear of external enemies which strengthens our union, is plain from the fact that this cause, by God’s will, has already, for a considerable time, ceased to exist. And it is probable that the secure existence, so far as regards the world, enjoyed by believers at present, will come to an end, since those who calumniate Christianity in every way are again attributing the present frequency of rebellion to the multitude of believers, and to their not being persecuted by the authorities as in old times. For we have learned from the Gospel neither to relax our efforts in days of peace, and to give ourselves up to repose, nor, when the world makes war upon us, to become cowards, and apostatize from the love of the God of all things which is in Jesus Christ. And we clearly manifest the illustrious nature of our origin, and do not our first converts a contempt for idols, and images of all kinds, and, besides this, raise their thoughts from the worship of created things instead of God, and elevate them to the universal Creator; dearly showing Him to be the subject of prophecy, both from the predictions regarding Him–of which there are many–and from those traditions which have been carefully investigated by such as are able intelligently to understand the Gospels, and the declarations of the apostles.

 

[JM3]

Cyril of Jerusalem

Catechetical Lecture 5

1. But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures. For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered as to the knowledge of them by want of learning, and others by a want of leisure, in order that the soul may not perish from ignorance, we comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it, and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper, but engraving it by the memory upon your heart, taking care while you rehearse it that no Catechumen chance to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. I wish you also to keep this as a provision through the whole course of your life, and beside this to receive no other, neither if we ourselves should change and contradict our present teaching, nor if an adverse angel, transformed into an angel of light should wish to lead you astray. For though we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that ye have received, let him be to you anathema. So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed, and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents.** For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them an the table of your heart.**

 

[InternetWoman]

I would like to second the comment that Sacred Tradition can NEVER contradict Sacred Scripture. Both come from Jesus and he is the truth and the truth can not contradict itself.

 

[haparker321]

Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are co-equals with one supporting the other

I don’t think they’re equals, although I think they’re complimentary. Again, Sacred Tradition would have to have the same equality as the word of God because it contains “God’s words” in them.

The bottom line on this is that Scripture is just as vital to the Catholic Church as it is to any Protestant Church.

My argument is this: any teaching the Church produces ought to be adequately found in the scriptures and the Scriptures are the sole source we look to for authority (i.e., for a basis of our teaching).

Parker

 

[haparker321]

I would like to second the comment that Sacred Tradition can NEVER contradict Sacred Scripture. Both come from Jesus and he is the truth and the truth can not contradict itself.

The burden of proof lies on the Church to prove that ‘Sacred Tradition’ and ‘Oral Tradition’ are one and the same.

Parker

 

[haparker321]

For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them an the table of your heart.

Traditions as specified in the context here ought to be based and ‘collected’ out of the Scriptures. Where does it say in the paragraph that tradition does not have to come from the Scripture?

Parker

 

[Barbkw]

Just as the Apostles had to take Jesus’ lessons and “do” them in community, the Magisterium is entrusted to determine the same for His Church.

The Magisterium must take Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and establish rules and guidelines for our generation.

Their rules and guidelines can not be in contradiction to Sacred Scripture or to Sacred Tradition.

 

[JM3]

The burden of proof lies on the Church to prove that ‘Sacred Tradition’ and ‘Oral Tradition’ are one and the same.

Parker

Wrong.

Instead of pointing fingers outside, you must first look inside and realize that you can be wrong. Then figure out why you can be wrong. Proof does not lie outside of yourself, but inside yourself.

 

[ANNE_2]

The earliest Church Fathers - Jesus and the Apostles lived prior to the NEW Testament being written.

Please note the approx. years for the Bible -

Pentecost (30/33AD)
The beginning of the (Catholic) Church; the Church exists before a determination of a canon or a definitive list of books of what was later called the Bible. The NT was not even written yet. The Bible is the book of the Church, we are not a church of the Bible.

Melito, Bishop of Sardis (c**. 170**)
Produced the first known Christian attempt at an Old Testament canon. His list maintains the Septuagint order of books but contains only the Old Testament protocanonicals minus the Book of Esther.

Council of Laodicea (c. 360)
A local council of the church in union with Rome produced a list of books of the Bible similar to the Council of Trent’s canon. This was one of the Church’s earliest decisions on a canon.

Council of Rome (382)
Local church council under the authority of Pope Damasus, (366-384) gave a complete list of canonical books of the OT and NT which is identical with the list later approved by the Council of Trent.

John 21:25 “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were everyone of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written”

 

[Barbkw]

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.

 

[JM3]

Traditions as specified in the context here ought to be based and ‘collected’ out of the Scriptures. Where does it say in the paragraph that tradition does not have to come from the Scripture?

Parker

You see what you want to see and not what is really there?

For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just** as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches**, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them an the table of your heart.

 

[PatrickSebast]

My argument is this: any teaching the Church produces ought to be adequately found in the scriptures and the Scriptures are the sole source we look to for authority (i.e., for a basis of our teaching).

Parker

Then why would you quote people who wrote about things like the Perpetual Virginity of Mary or the Immaculate Assumption?

If you want these mens words to hold authority then you have to accept extra-biblical tradition. If you don’t want them to hold authority then you shouldn’t try to use them as sources. You can’t just pick and choose what sounds best to you and deny anything that you don’t like.

 

[haparker321]

Wrong. Instead of pointing fingers outside, you must first look inside and realize that you can be wrong. Then figure out why you can be wrong. Proof does not lie outside of yourself, but inside yourself.

James,

This argument is complete gibberish.

You’re argument here runs like this:

“Parker is a (fallible) human being who can be wrong; therefore, because he could be wrong, it is not the church’s responsibility to prove that sacred and oral tradition are one and the same.”

This is a non-sequitor.

Parker

 

[Kirk_O]

Have you ever wondered where Sacred Scripture came from? It seems you think the Bible came to us all bond and ready for delivery. The Bible is Sacred Tradition and Oral Tradition which finally was put in written form after centuries being taught orally.

 

[haparker321]

Then why would you quote people who wrote about things like the Perpetual virginity of Mary or the Immaculate Assumption?

You would need to tie what I cited to those beliefs. So far, the only person that defended that doctrine was Jerome.

If you want these men’s words to hold authority then you have to accept extra-biblical tradition.

On what ground are you saying I should?

If you don’t want them to hold authority then you shouldn’t try to use them as sources. You can’t just pick and choose what sounds best to you and deny anything that you don’t like.

The early church fathers never claimed to have infallibility on any of these doctrines and to use their writings is fair game. Just because Jerome defends Marian perpetual virginity does not mean he can be infallibly correct.

Parker

 

[haparker321]

Have you ever wondered where Sacred Scripture came from? It seems you think the Bible came to us all bond and ready for delivery.

If I was ever that stupid and gullible, you would be right. In this case, I think not.

Parker