Early church fathers believed in sola scriptura?

  • Thread starter Thread starter coleraine
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Trinity is explicitly taught in scripture. The name chosen to summarize the doctrine in no way violates SS so I guess I don’t follow.
Can you seriously look back at the early heresies of the 4th and 5th Centuries and make such a claim with a straight face?

I believe the only way you can make this claim is by relying on the decisions of those early council for the correct interpretation of scripture which point to the Trinity.

The majority of bishops in the church at the time had fallen for the Arian heresy. They were not dumb Christians who had not read scripture.

Again I believe that you are relying on the Tradition of the Catholic church to base your interpretation of scripture in respect to the Trinity.
 
You are operating under the assumption that I think the church lied and I don’t believe that so there is much in your post I can’t respond to since it doesn’t apply to me.

As to why the Holy Spirit would allow error to creep in…I don’t know. Apparently the Holy Spirit allowed schism…I don’t claim to understand the sovereignty of God and all of His plans.

As to the mechanisms of how an error came into being…I don’t think I understand what you are asking.
This is an interesting avenue to explore. If we can agree that the Catholic Church is operating in good faith, then if it is in error, it must be an honest mistake.

But Jesus:
  1. Made Peter the rock.
  2. Promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church.
  3. Gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
  4. Gave the Apostles the power to loose and bind sin, and bound Heaven (and by extension, God himself) to their decisions.
  5. Promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles.
It seems, by these actions, that Jesus had a pretty strong interest in keeping his Church on the straight and narrow.

The questions are:
  1. Do you think that Jesus limited these gifts to the Apostles only?
  2. If the Holy Spirit was guiding them, and they decided to pass the office on to a successor, was the Holy Spirit not guiding them in that decision?
  3. What does having the gates of Hell not prevail against the Church mean?
  4. Doesn’t the implications of 3 and 4 want to make you sit down and take a breath? These are some pretty heavy promises!
My answers are:
  1. No.
  2. Yes, the Holy Spirit was guiding them.
  3. It means, in matters of Faith and Morals (Dogma and Doctrine), the Church cannot err. If the Church had one error in it’s Theology, then that would be a victory for Satan. One error is the wedge that he needs to split the Church asunder. I think that it’s critical that the Church cannot err in matters of Doctrine, and that it has to also have Apostolic succession.
  4. Yes, and have a beer too! 😃
Seriously, error, IMO, is MUCH worse of a scenario than schism. Much, much worse. It would be a repudiation of Jesus’s power and Divinity.

So, as I stated earlier, we Catholics believe his promises, and draw our conclusions from (roughly) this line of thinking. Well, at least I do, I can’t pretend to speak for other Catholics. Again, I’m not accusing you or anyone else of not believing Jesus’s promises, but then you probably draw different conclusions from them.

Perhaps you disagree with the thought process from these instances to our current day Church as I outlined above. Perhaps you have different conclusions as to what these verses are supposed to mean. I’d be interested in hearing them.
 
I read it and I appreciate your efforts but I haven’t had time to respond yet.

I am of the Reformed persuassion and as far as I can tell we are pretty true to the reformation.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I don’t think your church is entirely wrong but I don’t think it’s entirely correct either. As to following Catholic exegesis of scripture…remember your church has only defined the meanings of a handful of scriptures so I guess it would depend on what Catholic theologian(s) agree with which Reformed theologian on certain subjects.

As for the changing of words I am assuming you mean Luther’s addition of “alone” to Romans 3:28. If you are, please remember that others before Luther did the same thing and yet no Catholic rails against them. The reformers accepted the canon of the OT that Jerome (and others) accepted. In fact there were Catholics such as Cardinals Cajeten and Ximenes who rejected the books you call the deutero’s and they were contemporaries of Luther. I believe it was Cajetan who interviewed Luther at Wurms.
Thank you for that response. again, know that I am not belittling you, it is the first time that anyone has responded to that question and it allows me to better understand where you are coming from. But is that to say yours is that of a reformed reformer meaning in your sense you have returned to a closer following of the original teachings of Luther? If so, how did you personally determine what you believed in was misguided in the first place?
 
This is an interesting avenue to explore. If we can agree that the Catholic Church is operating in good faith, then if it is in error, it must be an honest mistake.
It will take a little while to get through everything but yes, I believe the Catholic Church is operating in good faith.
 
Catholic Answers is a biased source. 🙂
So your underlying theory is that salvation information can not be obtained from a biased source???

Is the truth biased by the lips that speak it?

I know that you believe that the Decalogue although in the bible no longer applies since you believe that the entire bible reduces down to “just believe and you are saved” but has it ever occurred to you that The Bible is a biased source of information?

*Exodus 20:4-6
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. *

Now, go back and answer the first question. Should you trust your salvation to a biased source of information?

Finally, ask yourself if you are biased and if you conclude “yes” then ask yourself why you (or anyone else) should trust yourself with your ideas about how to get saved? 🤷

James
 
.

Here’s a link to a good “for instance,” of wrong teaching by the leadership of the RCC.

(Popes Testify that Catholicism and Islam Worship the Same God)1 John 2:21-22

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Read the rest of the CCC that also recognized the Jews as our brothers. Would you imply by the same reckoning that the Jews are the Antichrist? Me thinks you are being selective and a tad bit parochial on your scripture reads.

Even Satan recognizes and believes in the One God.

Cain too recognized God and worshiped Him before he slew Able out of jealousy for Able’s acceptable sacrifice.

Clearly, recognizing God and giving acceptable and pleasing worship to God are not always the same thing but that does not always make those incompetent in an infantile faith the anti-Christ.

Do you imagine God is not capable of fully enlightening those that at least have a fledgling faith that there is the One God the maker of all creation and who acknowledge that there is an afterlife that depends on how we conduct or lives on earth? After all the affirmative answers the opening and closing lines of The Apostles Creed. We just need to get these other people to learn the remaining 10 lines of the prayer.

Apostle’s Creed*
  1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. *
  2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
  3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
  4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
  5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
  6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
  7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
  8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
  9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
  10. the forgiveness of sins,
  11. the resurrection of the body,
    *12. and the life everlasting. *
    Amen.
James
 
Sandusky,
Several days ago, we discussed that we could create a list of all the non-scriptual doctrines and I gave you a subset. I thought we agreed that it wasn’t about whether the list existed (it is afterall a subset of those Catholic Doctrines that you think are false because you can’t find them in scripture).

So we moved on to the real point of the discussion which is:
How do we justify those traditions not found in scripture.
We then moved on to the next point, which is that either the Church was in error or was lying for the non-scriptual traditions…

We moved further to say that they church wasn’t lying, because they have no motivation to do so, so it must be in error.

We are no discussing how God would allow the entire church to be in error and how that could have happened since the chruch gets together in councils and the majority would have to simultaneously embrace an error for one to become part of doctrine.

Why are you going back to the original " list" discussion that we hashed out days ago?
 
I provided a definition of metaphor in the link to my post that I gave you. Included in that definition it’s stated that the identifier of a true metaphor is some form of the verb “to be.”

No, it is a metaphor in the classic definition and form.

You can’t just go suspending and bending the rules of grammar to fit your previously held beliefs and traditions, otherwise, you render everything else meaningless.

What you’re engaging is classic eisegesis.

Here’s a definition of that for you:eis•ege•sis \ˌī-sə-ˈjē-səs, ˈī-sə-ˌ\ noun

plural eis•ege•ses -ˌsēz\

[Greek eis into (akin to Greek en in) + English exegesis — more at IN]

(1892)

: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one’s own ideas — compare EXEGESIS***”Reading into the text your own ideas.”***

That’s the prefect description of what you’re doing.
Oh come on Sandusky - who are you kidding here?
The original Greek manuscripts for all the Bible translations comes from Greek written continuously with no punctuation. Punctuation is rare (but some accents and breathings have been added by later hands) except for some blank spaces, diaeresis on initial iotas and upsilons, abbreviations of the nomina sacra and markings of OT citations. So guess where translators even know how to translate the manuscripts? From Catholic Traditions.

So now you want us to believe that the Jews who were always willing to die for their faith all ran away from a metaphor about Jesus telling us we must eat His real flesh and drink his real blood in John 6? 🤷 😊

James
 
I guess what I am trying to say is that my issue with this particular doctrine is that:
a.) We don’t find it in scripture…at least not explicitly **and I don’t know how one can find it there without first accepting it based on your church’s word. ** This may not be true with you or anyone else, I am just sharing my thoughts on this.

b.) In this particular case the historical evidence for this doctrine is rather weak for the first several centuries. I have forgotten when evidence for the Assumption first shows up on the historical record but I belive it is around the 4th or 5th century.

I understand that lack of evidence does not prove that there was no belief but the lack of evidence to me causes me to doubt that this was taught by the apostles.

This thread has rambled all over the place hasn’t it?
But Pwrlifter - you HAD to accept the Church’s word in the first place since IT was what brought us scripture. The Church begot scripture the scripture did NOT beget the Church. If you will pardon the analog you have the dog’s tail chasing the dog! :eek:

You are totally dependent on trusting the Church to even tell you that the manuscripts and scriptures are the words of the Apostles (or their disciples). There is NO way to independently confirm most anything in scriptures without assuming that that The Church was truthful in delivering the lists of inspired texts and telling you that the various books were inspired works. Everything you believe was put into you head by somone else. How did you even know to go read a thing called the bible without somone telling you it was God’s word? Did you just go down to the bookstore one day and say “hey, I think I will go pick up God’s Word and be saved?” Of course not - you heard from somone else who heard from someone else etc. who eventually heard it from a believer in The Catholic Church. Someone also told you the lie that only scripture is truthful - but you can’t find that assertion anywhere in scripture. Ergo - you trust others in part and The Church in part to form your current conscience and belief. I want to point out how irrational it is to believe The Church for the majority of what you believe while also holding that The Church in contempt becuase somone else told you to be mistrusting of the Church.

Someone taught you to read and write. You did not just pick up a book and teach yourself how to read. Similarly, somone taught you initially what to believe in the Bible before you read a line of text. Someone planted an initial seed of faith or doubt. That person heard it from somone else too. Ergo - ALL FAITH comes from THE CHURCH. It is insane to call oneself a Christian without trusting the oldest continuous original Church - The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Come back to the origins of your faith and get the single authentic teaching. Come to The Catholic Church and learn the truth from the Church that gave us the original writers, teachers and custodians of God’s Word. All others are impostors.

James
 
Originally Posted by Pwrlftr
I read it and I appreciate your efforts but I haven’t had time to respond yet.
Understood.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I don’t think your church is entirely wrong but I don’t think it’s entirely correct either…"
I’m not sure I understand what you base the “only a handful of scriptures” on, while it is true that one of the main purposes of the Magisterium is to protect and provide on going clarity to the interpretation of scriptures through scholars in many fields of study.
As for the changing of words…

“…In fact there were Catholics such as Cardinals Cajeten and Ximenes who rejected the books you call the deutero’s and they were contemporaries of Luther. I believe it was Cajetan who interviewed Luther at Wurms.”

As far as the DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS are concerned, I am providing you the following link for you to review. It is too much information to post but well worth reviewing for its value to correct some misconceptions; scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

Since you have used this in regard to supporting the removal of the Deuteros, I would also ask that you provide evidence of this statement on “…Cardinals Cajeten and Ximenes who rejected the books you call the deutero’s” I am aware of nothing by either of these two officiates that provides support for Luther’s removal of the 7 books or the changing of text.
“…When Catholics and Protestants talk about “the Bible,” the two groups actually have two different books in mind.
In the sixteenth century, the Protestant Reformers removed a large section of the Old Testament that was not compatible with their theology. They charged that these writings were not inspired Scripture and branded them with the pejorative title “Apocrypha.”
Catholics refer to them as the “deuterocanonical” books (since they were disputed by a few early authors and their canonicity was established later than the rest), while the rest are known as the “protocanonical” books (since their canonicity was established first).
Following the Protestant attack on the integrity of the Bible, the Catholic Church infallibly reaffirmed the divine inspiration of the deuterocanonical books at the Council of Trent in 1546. In doing this, it reaffirmed what had been believed since the time of Christ.
Who Compiled the Old Testament?
The Church does not deny that there are ancient writings which are “apocryphal.” During the early Christian era, there were scores of manuscripts which purported to be Holy Scripture but were not. Many have survived to the present day, like the Apocalypse of Peter and the Gospel of Thomas, which all Christian churches regard as spurious writings that don’t belong in Scripture.
During the first century, the Jews disagreed as to what constituted the canon of Scripture. In fact, there were a large number of different canons in use, including the growing canon used by Christians. In order to combat the spreading Christian cult, rabbis met at the city of Jamnia or Javneh in A.D. 90 to determine which books were truly the Word of God. They pronounced many books, including the Gospels, to be unfit as scriptures. This canon also excluded seven books (Baruch, Sirach, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, and the Wisdom of Solomon, plus portions of Esther and Daniel) that Christians considered part of the Old Testament.
The group of Jews which met at Javneh became the dominant group for later Jewish history, and today most Jews accept the canon of Javneh. However, some Jews, such as those from Ethiopia, follow a different canon which is identical to the Catholic Old Testament and includes the seven deuterocanonical books (cf. Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 6, p. 1147).
Needless to say, the Church disregarded the results of Javneh. First, a Jewish council after the time of Christ is not binding on the followers of Christ. Second, Javneh rejected precisely those documents which are foundational for the Christian Church – the Gospels and the other documents of the New Testament. Third, by rejecting the deuterocanonicals, Javneh rejected books which had been used by Jesus and the apostles and which were in the edition of the Bible that the apostles used in everyday life – the Septuagint.
The Apostles & the Deuteros The Christian acceptance of the deuterocanonical books was logical because the deuterocanonicals were also included in the Septuagint, the Greek edition of the Old Testament which the apostles used to evangelize the world. Two thirds of the Old Testament quotations in the New are from the Septuagint. Yet the apostles nowhere told their converts to avoid seven books of it. Like the Jews all over the world who used the Septuagint, the early Christians accepted the books they found in it. They knew that the apostles would not mislead them and endanger their souls by putting false scriptures in their hands – especially without warning them against them. But the apostles did not merely place the deuterocanonicals in the hands of their converts as part of the Septuagint. They regularly referred to the deuterocanonicals in their writings. For example, Hebrews 11 encourages us to emulate the heroes of the Old Testament and in the Old Testament “Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life” (Heb. 11:35).
…”
continued at cin.org/users/james/files/deuteros.htm
 
The New Testament Deuteros
It is ironic that Protestants reject the inclusion of the deuterocanonicals at councils such as Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), because these are the very same early Church councils that Protestants appeal to for the canon of the New Testament. Prior to the councils of the late 300s, there was a wide range of disagreement over exactly what books belonged in the New Testament. Certain books, such as the gospels, acts, and most of the epistles of Paul had long been agreed upon. However a number of the books of the New Testament, most notably Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, and Revelation remained hotly disputed until the canon was settled. They are, in effect, “New Testament deuterocanonicals.”
While Protestants are willing to accept the testimony of Hippo and Carthage (the councils they most commonly cite) for the canonicity of the New Testament deuterocanonicals, they are unwilling to accept the testimony of Hippo and Carthage for the canonicity of the Old Testament deuterocanonicals. Ironic indeed!
Regarding Bad Translations in the King James Version, review the link provided below as there are too many items to post here. Bad Translations in the King James Version

Typically, when they started out and were in politically precarious positions, they preached the free exercise of private judgment and its corollary, tolerance of others’ public exercise of private judgment. However, once their own positions were consolidated and they saw the chaos that the public exercise of private judgment led to, they backed off of the principle and tried to reign it in. Historian Will Durant writes:
“It is instructive to observe how Luther moved from tolerance to dogma as his power and certainty grew. Among [the 95 Theses was the proposition] that ‘to burn heretics is against the will of the Holy Spirit.’ In the Open Letter to the Christian Nobility (1520) Luther ordained ‘every man a priest,’ with the right to interpret the Bible according to his private judgment and individual light; and added, ‘We should vanquish heretics with books, not with burning.’ … [But] Luther should have never grown old. Already in 1522 he was outpapaling the popes. ‘I do not admit,’ he wrote, ‘that my doctrine can be judged by anyone, even the angels. He who does not receive my doctrine cannot be saved’” (Durant, The Story of Civilization, volume 6 “The Reformation”], 420-2).
Thus in 1529, Luther wrote:
“No one is to be compelled to profess the faith, but no one must be allowed to injure it. Let our opponents give their objections and hear our answers. If they are thus converted, well and good; if not, let them hold their tongues and believe what they please…. In order to avoid trouble we should not, if possible, suffer contrary teachings in the same state. Even unbelievers should be forced to obey he Ten Commandments, attend church, and outwardly conform” (Letter of August 26, 1529 to Jos. Metsch).
Now that Luther’s own position had been secured, he was able to survey the anarchy caused by the principle he had used to rise to power–the public exercise of private judgment–and he was put in the same paradoxical position as a modern Protestant pastor, needing to preach private judgment to validate his own teaching, yet needing to prohibit the public exercise of private judgment to hold off the forces of chaos and keep the group together. Durant writes:
"Luther now agreed with the Catholic Church that ‘Christians require certainty, definite dogmas, and a sure Word of God which they can trust to live and die by.’ As the Church in the early centuries of Christianity, divided and weakened by a growing multiplicity of ferocious sects, had felt compelled to define her creed and expel all dissidents, so now Luther, dismayed by he variety of quarrelsome sects that had sprouted from the seed of private judgment, passed step by step from toleration to dogmatism. “All men now presume to criticize the Gospel,’ he complained; ‘almost every old doting fool or prating sophist must, forsooth, be a doctor of divinity.’ Stung by Catholic taunts that he had let loose a dissovent anarchy of creeds and morals, he concluded, with the Church, that social order required some cloture to debate, some recognized authority to serve as ‘an anchor of faith.’ … Sebastian Franck thought there was more freedom of speech and belief among the Turks than in the Lutheran states, and Leo Jud, the Zwinglian, joined Carlstadt in calling Luther another pope” (ibid., 423).
But everyone knows that Luther was a man of fierce temper. Surely this was responsible for his attitude and made him unique among the Reformers in his inconsistency with regard to private judgment. Right?
"Other reformers rivaled or surpassed Luther in hounding heresy. Bucer of Strasbourg urged the civil authorities in Protestant states to extirpate all who professed a ‘false’ religion; such men, he said, are worse than murderers; even their wives and children and cattle should be destroyed. The comparatively gentle Melanchthon accepted the chairmanship of the secular inquisition that suppressed the Anabaptists in Germany with imprisonment and death. ‘Why should we pity such men more than God does?’ he asked… He recommended that the rejection of infant baptism, or of original sin, or of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, should be punished as capital crimes. He insisted on the death penalty for a sectarian who thought that heathens might be saved, or for another who doubted that belief in Christ as the Redeemer could change a naturally sinful into a righteous man. He applauded… review at cin.org/users/james/files/private.htm
 
Originally Posted by Pwrlftr:
. The reformers accepted the canon of the OT that Jerome (and others) accepted. In fact there were Catholics such as Cardinals Cajeten and Ximenes who rejected the books you call the deutero’s and they were contemporaries of Luther. I believe it was Cajetan who interviewed Luther at Wurms
It is true that not everyone accepted the Septuagint (Alexandrian canon) over the Palestinian but the fact remains that the Church did accept the Septuagint. Jerome later recanted and accepted the Septuagint. The Church also never approved adding the word “alone” if it is true what you say that others before Luther added it. Heresies have a seed and It is highly likely that seed was planted before Luther but he is guilty of the Schism.
 
It is true that not everyone accepted the Septuagint (Alexandrian canon) over the Palestinian but the fact remains that the Church did accept the Septuagint. Jerome later recanted and accepted the Septuagint. The Church also never approved adding the word “alone” if it is true what you say that others before Luther added it. Heresies have a seed and It is highly likely that seed was planted before Luther but he is guilty of the Schism.
The reason I brought up the “alone” issue was probably because many Catholics forget or didn’t know that Luther wasn’t the first to do so with that passage.

I’m not sure it’s accurate to say the church accepted the septuagint. I say this because we aren’t sure what books exactly were in the septuagint at that time. The copies we have contain differing indexes of books and only date back to the 4th century…I think it’s the 4th.

There can be no doubt that some early councils listed the books you currently accept in your OT canon and I don’t dispute that fact.
 
Is that right? So, when He said “if any two or more of you agree”, He didn’t really mean anything important? Maybe He was just talking about what to eat for breakfast?
I do not think that Matthew 18:19-20 applies here. Jesus says:
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree onearth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.
Jesus is talking about agreeing on something they are asking from God,not about their understanding of what God does. In fact, I think it supports that God will do what He wills whether we understand it or not. Jesus is where two or three have gathered in His name. They may be all laics, but He doesn’t say He will withold anything from them.

The Catholic Church recognizes that anyone can baptize if they have the right intention. God does what He wills whoever they are. I believe He does the same thing with respect to Communion for those who intend to follow Jesus’ instructions. Just as God accomplishes what He will in baptism, He will do the same in Communion for those who mean to follow Jesus’ instructions. There is nowhere that I can find in Scripture that He imposes any restriction on who can celebrate the sacrament, anymore than He does on baptism. God does not require us to understand what He does in the sacraments. I think it is presumptuous for us to think we can understand what God does.

We are to come to Jesus like little children. Little children are not trained theologians or philosophers.

Elsewhere Jesus says:
Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will giveyou reest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.
Matthew 11:28-30.
I think that we have made His yoke anything but easy and His burden anything but light. We, and I am talking about both Protestant and Catholic, have imposed many beliefs and obligations that take the simplicity out of Christianity.
So, why are you here?

This site is for people who have legitimate questions about Catholicism. You have demonstrated that you do not. How are you doing “God’s work in the world” bringing your detractions here?
I am here to promote understanding and show that we are not really very far apart on many points. I do not make any detractions about Catholic beliefs. What I do assert is that on the essentials, the beliefs of most Protestant are also legitimate. By essentials I mean what is contained in the Apostles’ Creed, which was the basic creed ofthe early Church.
 
Come back to the origins of your faith and get the single authentic teaching. Come to The Catholic Church and learn the truth from the Church that gave us the original writers, teachers and custodians of God’s Word. All others are impostors.

James
It’s going to take me a while to get to everyone’s posts…I’m greatly outnumbered at this point.

As to coming to your church, at one point I considered it but as you can see, chose not to convert. I read everything I could get my hands on and at the end of the day chose to stay where I am.

I learned a great deal about your church and corrected some misconceptions along the way but as of right now, I don’t accept everything your church claims so…I am where I am.
 
The reason I brought up the “alone” issue was probably because many Catholics forget or didn’t know that Luther wasn’t the first to do so with that passage.

I’m not sure it’s accurate to say the church accepted the septuagint. I say this because we aren’t sure what books exactly were in the septuagint at that time. The copies we have contain differing indexes of books and only date back to the 4th century…I think it’s the 4th.

There can be no doubt that some early councils listed the books you currently accept in your OT canon and I don’t dispute that fact.
I believe that many of the questions regarding the issues here can be answered to some degree through the last few responses before this (#546 and #547) for those that would like to go over the referrals.
 
It’s going to take me a while to get to everyone’s posts…I’m greatly outnumbered at this point.
In looking through the last page of posts, I’ve been one of the people “dogpiling” you. 😃 Take your time!
 
Again I believe that you are relying on the Tradition of the Catholic church to base your interpretation of scripture in respect to the Trinity.
Yes, tradition provides a guide on how the earliest Christians interpreted scripture. Those groups such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses who deny the Trinity, create their own tradition on how to interpret scripture.
 
We are to come to Jesus like little children. Little children are not trained theologians or philosophers.

Elsewhere Jesus says:

I think that we have made His yoke anything but easy and His burden anything but light. We, and I am talking about both Protestant and Catholic, have imposed many beliefs and obligations that take the simplicity out of Christianity.
I agree 👍

P.S. (although I wouldn’t be surprised if someone responds to your post with something like "Well if you were really trying to be like little children, then you would just accept what the Roman Catholic Church says because it is the one true church, without asks all these questions).
 
It’s going to take me a while to get to everyone’s posts…I’m greatly outnumbered at this point.

As to coming to your church, at one point I considered it but as you can see, chose not to convert. I read everything I could get my hands on and at the end of the day chose to stay where I am.

I learned a great deal about your church and corrected some misconceptions along the way but as of right now, I don’t accept everything your church claims so…I am where I am.
Pwrlftr,
we all appreciate your hunger to know truth. I can totally relate to you because I was in your shoes some years ago. I think that the very fact you are posting to a Catholic Forum is because you still yearn to have some questions answered and you are hungry for God and for truth. I don’t think you are here to rouse the rabble 😃

I just want to encourage you to trust God, Like Peter, you have to be willing to step out of the boat, or your comfort zone, to go to Jesus. I did with the help and grace of God and found a miracle walking with Jesus on the waves that would otherwise have overwhelmed me. I can’t tell you enough about how the RCC has enriched my life and deepened my relationship with Jesus. Just keep asking those questions, we are here for you and those like you that are honestly searching for a clear answer. 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top