Early church fathers believed in sola scriptura?

[Peter_J]

…in contrast to Sandusky’s community which in his telling cleaves to Scripture like Judas to a bag of silver.

In my opinion, no it isn’t. Especially since a lot of people are (probably) going to read it and assume that it is a “typical Catholic thing to say”.

 

[SyCarl]

^^

SyCarl,

Now, I already know that you believe in the Sufficiency of Scripture, i.e. of the whole bible.

Would it also be correct to say that you believe in the Sufficiency of John?

Yes, I do believe in the sufficiency of John.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Eleven posts have been pruned from this thread because they either lacked charity or were off topic or both.

Please remain on topic (i.e. Sola Scriptura) and deal with the arguments and not the individual presenting them, responding in all charity.
Your servant,

 

[Michael_Francis]

Eleven posts have been pruned from this thread because they either lacked charity or were off topic or both.

Please remain on topic (i.e. Sola Scriptura) and deal with the arguments and not the individual presenting them, responding in all charity.
Your servant,

 

[mackbrislawn]

The Hunt for the Fourth Cup

This happened after the passage you quoted:

John 19:28-30
After this, aware that everything was now finished, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I thirst.” There was a vessel filled with common wine. So they put a sponge soaked in wine on a sprig of hyssop and put it up to his mouth. When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.” And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.

That was a sponge soaked with wine, not Welch’s 100% grape juice.

Context Sandusky, Context !!!

Grape juice is a man-made tradition which contradicts scripture.

I left some Welch’s grape juice in the car once, and the next day it wan’t grape juice anymore!

It doesn’t take long for “grape juice” to ferment; so any grape juice they had without refrigerating it would be wine very shortly!

 

[Philthy]

• It has been brought to my attention by the powers that be that I have violated posting protocol on at least one occasion during this thread.
• I wish to apologize to anyone I have offended or disrespected and ask for your forgiveness.
• I can only say that I did not intend to hurt anyone’s feelings or insult their expression of faith in our Lord.

 

[Peter_J]

Yes, I do believe in the sufficiency of John.

I saw this post yesterday, but I held off on responding because I wanted to think of a good comment to make. But I can’t really of any, except that I will keep this fact in mind for future conversations with you (and, to some extent, conversations with Protestants in general).

God bless,

 

[elvisman]

It’s not the content of the elements that’s important, but the content of the heart, the content of one’s faith in Christ that matters to Christ.

Again, it’s not the content of the elements that’s important, but the content of the heart that matters to Christ. With respect to the wine, He says:
Matthew 26:29
“But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”
Certainly you’re not going to say the juice of the grape is not “fruit of the vine?”

We lack nothing, but instead, we have what is known as “the fullness of truth” in Christ.

OH HAPPY DAY!!! :extrahappy:

It’s “not the elements but the content of the heart”?
With respect to the Eucharist, it’s not the content of the heart but the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus that’s important. Whether your heart if full or empty has nothing to do with that.

**As for wine vs. grape joiuce, that has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum. A rudimentary study of history and refrigeration would show you that grape juice doesn’t stay grape juice in the desert for more than a day or so. They drank WINE - not grape juice. **
John the Baptist came neither eating nor drinking, and you said, “He has a demon!” The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you said, "Look a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!" (Matthew 11:18-19, Luke 7:33-34). Drunkards don’t drink grape juice.

**Jesus chose to to use bread and wine. If you’re going to go by the strict rule of Sola Scriptura, **yes, my confused friend - the elements do matter.

 

[BRB]

Yes, I do believe in the sufficiency of John.

Indeed ! Gospel of John … or any one of the other 3 Gospels give sufficient testimony that Jesus was the Christ.

However, we all know that it is best that we have the entire canon today. And, all the Traditions of Christianity that didn’t make it into the canon.

 

[BRB]

It’s "not the elements but the content of the heart"?
With respect to the Eucharist, it’s not the content of the heart but the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus that’s important.use bread and wine.

If you’re going to go by the strict rule of Sola Scriptura, yes, my confused friend - the elements do matter.

No. It’s not an either/or situation … as you suggest Elvis.

It’s both the proper hosts … and our proper spiritual beliefs/faith.

Sandman —
why would your church not desire to use wine for the drink … as scriptures teach Christ made use of ?

 

[elvisman]

No. It’s not an either/or situation … as you suggest Elvis.

It’s both the proper hosts … and our proper spiritual beliefs/faith.

Sandman —
why would your church not desire to use wine for the drink … as scriptures teach Christ made use of ?

That’s where you’re wrong, my friend.

Actually, the faith of the congregation - and even the priest has no bearing on whether the elements become the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord.

 

[BRB]

That’s where you’re wrong, my friend.

Actually, the faith of the congregation - and even the priest has no bearing on whether the elements become the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord.

Thats only 1/2 the equation. As Paul teaches, if we perceive a valid Eucharist wrongly, we bring damnation upon ourselves.

 

[elvisman]

Thats only 1/2 the equation. As Paul teaches, if we perceive a valid Eucharist wrongly, we bring damnation upon ourselves.

I think we’re debating on different plains.
I don’t disagree with you here but in my conversation with Sandusky, I was pointing out the the heart has nothing to do with whether the elements become the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.

**Where the heart DOES come into play is in the reception of the Eucharist - and I think that is what you are stating. You’ll get no argument from me there. **