Early Ratzinger on the liturgy

[VociMike]

From Pontifications

“We ought to get back the dimension of the sacred in the liturgy. The liturgy is not a festivity; it is not a meeting for the purpose of having a good time. It is of no importance that the parish priest has cudgeled his brains to come up with suggestive ideas or imaginative novelties. The liturgy is what makes the Thrice-Holy God present amongst us; it is the burning bush; it is the Alliance of God with man in Jesus Christ, who has died and risen again. The grandeur of the liturgy does not rest upon the fact that it offers an interesting entertainment, but in rendering tangible the Totally Other, whom we are not capable of summoning. He comes because He wills. In other words, the essential in the liturgy is the mystery, which is realized in the common ritual of the Church; all the rest diminishes it. Men experiment with it in lively fashion, and find themselves deceived, when the mystery is transformed into distraction, when the chief actor in the liturgy is not the Living God but the priest or the liturgical director.”

 

[PhilotheaZ]

I love it!

 

[tundramom]

AMEN!!!

in Christ
Steph

 

[BMchumaker]

Right on preach it brother…

Divine Eucharistic Liturgy with Gregorian Chant:thumbsup:

 

[az_4_faith]

That entire paragraph should be printed on a plaque and hung in each and every sacristy around the world (with two copies in the U.S. Churches for good measure).

It says it all!

Long live Pope Benedict XVI!!

 

[Walking_Home]

That entire paragraph should be printed on a plaque and hung in each and every sacristy around the world (with two copies in the U.S. Churches for good measure).

It says it all!

Long live Pope Benedict XVI!!

---

I second that.

 

[Teelynn]

That entire paragraph should be printed on a plaque and hung in each and every sacristy around the world (with two copies in the U.S. Churches for good measure).

It says it all!

Long live Pope Benedict XVI!!

We need to plaster the walls of the Churches with them!! On 2nd thought, why not make wallpaper out of them! Oh my goodness, how I love this Pope!! :clapping:

 

[Windmill]

The problem is when you start talking about specific items that need to be fixed in order to allow greater reverence, people have a strong disagreement.

Who here is for “less reverence?” No one. But if you start saying things, there are consequences of your actions:

"More Latin, more Gregorian chant (but don’t ask me to teach people how to sing this),

get rid of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (and thereby extend the communion rite),

move the choir back up to the choir loft and take away the microphones (but don’t make me the one to tell them that),

get nice vestments for the priest and deacon (but not expensive ones),

chant the Mass parts (but don’t let it take any longer to do than usual),

get better hymnals (but not expensive ones),

get rid of guitars (but don’t ask me how to find replacement instruments),

find a pipe organist (but don’t spend more money in doing so),

get better furnishings (but don’t ask me to pay for it),

turn the priest around (but don’t route all the complainers’ phone calls to me),

get rid of the ugly felt banners hanging in the sanctuary (but don’t upset the kids who put these together),

get rid of the sign of peace and holding hands at the Our Father (but don’t make it look like we complainers are a bunch of nit-pickers)…

And the list goes on and on.

Don’t get me wrong, I am for every single one of these items. I have even started a men’s gregorian schola with a friend of mine (www.brazoschant.org) and we are enjoying much success. However, early on this process, I realized that many people’s ideas are different when it comes to how the liturgy needs to be solemnized. For many of these people, they have not read one bit of Sacrosanctam Consillium or Musicam Sacram. They are merely going by their own emotions. The goal is to educate people about what the church, in her wisdom and tradition, has already found to work for public worship. Reinventing hte wheel is tiresome.

 

[benedictgal]

The problem is when you start talking about specific items that need to be fixed in order to allow greater reverence, people have a strong disagreement.

Who here is for “less reverence?” No one. But if you start saying things, there are consequences of your actions:

"More Latin, more Gregorian chant (but don’t ask me to teach people how to sing this),

get rid of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (and thereby extend the communion rite),

move the choir back up to the choir loft and take away the microphones (but don’t make me the one to tell them that),

get nice vestments for the priest and deacon (but not expensive ones),

chant the Mass parts (but don’t let it take any longer to do than usual),

get better hymnals (but not expensive ones),

get rid of guitars (but don’t ask me how to find replacement instruments),

find a pipe organist (but don’t spend more money in doing so),

get better furnishings (but don’t ask me to pay for it),

turn the priest around (but don’t route all the complainers’ phone calls to me),

get rid of the ugly felt banners hanging in the sanctuary (but don’t upset the kids who put these together),

get rid of the sign of peace and holding hands at the Our Father (but don’t make it look like we complainers are a bunch of nit-pickers)…

And the list goes on and on.

Don’t get me wrong, I am for every single one of these items. I have even started a men’s gregorian schola with a friend of mine (www.brazoschant.org) and we are enjoying much success. However, early on this process, I realized that many people’s ideas are different when it comes to how the liturgy needs to be solemnized. For many of these people, they have not read one bit of Sacrosanctam Consillium or Musicam Sacram. They are merely going by their own emotions. The goal is to educate people about what the church, in her wisdom and tradition, has already found to work for public worship. Reinventing hte wheel is tiresome.

It’s not that Pope Benedict XVI is rewriting the wheel, my dear Aggie friend. He is trying to get the barque of Peter on an even keel, especially when it comes to the liturgy. However, it’s hard to navigate when there are so many icebergs in the path and he’s got to smash them.

The period of creativity started coming to an end on April 19, 2005 when Joseph Ratzinger stepped out into the loggia and became Pope Benedict XVI. Remember that he made the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the cornerstone of his papacy. So, what he has written as Cardinal Ratzinger is now slowly coming to pass as our Supreme Pontiff.

We pretty much lost our sense of the sacred. What the OP quoted is pretty much the Benedictine manifesto for things to come. Benedict is leading by example by getting St. Peter’s in order. He has already replaced Archbishop Marini and the previous director of the Sistene Chapel Choir. The Papal Masses have taken on a more solemn note. He has tried very hard not to make himself the focus of the liturgy.

Incidentally, my PV (parochial vicar) celebrates Mass in the chapel of one of our local hospitals. He has oriented himself (during the Liturgy of the Eucharist) towards the Crucifix (ad orientsum). It shocked the folks; however, having read "Turning Towards the Lord (preface written by Pope Benedict XVI) he said that this was the best posture because, contrary to what the naysayers claim, my friend is not turning his back to the people, but he is leading them to the Lord.

By the way, is your parish St. Thomas Aquainas? I was up at College Station earlier this month and happened to go to Mass there. The daily Mass chapel is very pretty; however, when I went to the Main Church, I was a little surprised to not see much in the area of statuary and stained glass windows. The crucifix was beautiful (both locations).

P.S.: Sorry y’all lost your bowl game. At least, we won ours! I just had to throw that one in for good measure! Blessed Christmas!

 

[Marysann]

Thanks, VociMike, for the great quote. I couldn’t figure out how to find it on the link so could you give me the source. Next summer I will be back in the Diocese of Arlington where we have many parishes where the importance and value of the liturgy are understood. In the meantime I am trying to fight the good fight where I am, and I need all of the ammunition that I can get. Thanks for the help.

 

[Elzee]

Thanks, VociMike, for the great quote. I couldn’t figure out how to find it on the link so could you give me the source. Next summer I will be back in the Diocese of Arlington where we have many parishes where the importance and value of the liturgy are understood. In the meantime I am trying to fight the good fight where I am, and I need all of the ammunition that I can get. Thanks for the help.

I couldn’t find it either and would appreciate a direct link to the source! Thanks!

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

The problem is when you start talking about specific items that need to be fixed in order to allow greater reverence, people have a strong disagreement.

Who here is for “less reverence?” No one. But if you start saying things, there are consequences of your actions:

"More Latin, more Gregorian chant (but don’t ask me to teach people how to sing this),
Gregorian chant is extremely easy to sing. If people can sing all the OCP songs, then they can sing chant. I picked it up almost immediately with no lessons on chanting.

get rid of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (and thereby extend the communion rite),
We have no EMsHC at my parish. We use the Communion rail and it goes quite quickly. But God forbid Communion might take a longer time!

move the choir back up to the choir loft and take away the microphones (but don’t make me the one to tell them that),
Choirs sound much better in the choir loft where the acoustics can carry the sound unamplified throughout the church. I would be more than willing to tell choirs that. At my parish, they are in the choir loft.

get nice vestments for the priest and deacon (but not expensive ones),
Who says this? I wouldn’t mind going in on a gift for a priest. Heck, my mom made my uncle a stole to wear and it looks very nice. It was not expensive, either.

chant the Mass parts (but don’t let it take any longer to do than usual),
Who says this? People that are for all these things are not concerned with Mass being longer.

get better hymnals (but not expensive ones),
Who says this? Besides, the Adoremus or St. Michael hymnals would be much much cheaper in the long run because they don’t have to be replaced every year, like the OCP ones.

get rid of guitars (but don’t ask me how to find replacement instruments),
The human voice is the most beautiful instrument. We don’t always need instrumental accompaniment. A piano player is usually more common than a guitarist at a church anyway, so just use that.

find a pipe organist (but don’t spend more money in doing so),

get better furnishings (but don’t ask me to pay for it),

turn the priest around (but don’t route all the complainers’ phone calls to me),
**I would gladly explain the reasoning for ad orientem celebration of the liturgy to people. **

get rid of the ugly felt banners hanging in the sanctuary (but don’t upset the kids who put these together),
Put them up in the vestibule.

get rid of the sign of peace and holding hands at the Our Father (but don’t make it look like we complainers are a bunch of nit-pickers)…
**I like the sign of peace. I just think that before the consecration is a better time for it. I still like it, though. But hand holding was invented in the 70s and not everyone does it anyway. **
.

 

[SMHW]

Thanks, VociMike, for the great quote. I couldn’t figure out how to find it on the link so could you give me the source. Next summer I will be back in the Diocese of Arlington where we have many parishes where the importance and value of the liturgy are understood. In the meantime I am trying to fight the good fight where I am, and I need all of the ammunition that I can get. Thanks for the help.

Try unavoce.org/cardinal_ratzinger_chile.htm

 

[Marysann]

SMHW, thank you for the link.

 

[muledog]

The problem is when you start talking about specific items that need to be fixed in order to allow greater reverence, people have a strong disagreement.

Who here is for “less reverence?” No one. But if you start saying things, there are consequences of your actions:

"More Latin, more Gregorian chant (but don’t ask me to teach people how to sing this),

I don’t know of anyone who would say something like this. If pastors would’ve been doing this since Vatican II, we wouldn’t be where we’re at today.

get rid of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (and thereby extend the communion rite),

What’s wrong with praying in silence for 5-10 more minutes. I don’t know why everyone thinks they have to “rush” through Communion anyhow.

move the choir back up to the choir loft and take away the microphones (but don’t make me the one to tell them that),

What? Move the choir out of the spotlight so that the director/organist can’t be the star of the show and become a major distraction? Sounds like a plan to me!

[quoteget nice vestments for the priest and deacon (but not expensive ones),
[/quote]
Maybe if they didn’t throw away all of those beautiful “pre-Vatican II” vestments, this wouldn’t be a problem. Somehow, I’m pretty sure there would be donors out there helping purchase these items if that became necessary.

chant the Mass parts (but don’t let it take any longer to do than usual),

Once again, why the hurry???

get better hymnals (but not expensive ones),

How about purchasing a copy of the Roman Gradual. You know, the official liturgical book for choirs. Oh yeah, we used that money to buy Gather and Glory and Praise hymnals.

get rid of guitars (but don’t ask me how to find replacement instruments),

Ummm…most older churches come with a pipe organ. And used ones can be found pretty darn cheap.

find a pipe organist (but don’t spend more money in doing so),

Money is not the issue. Again, how did we get so low that we cannot find adequately trained organists for Catholic liturgies. The thought is rather depressing. Where have our shepherds been all these years?

get better furnishings (but don’t ask me to pay for it),

What furnishings? You mean, like communion rails that were torn out, or beautiful old altars that were demolished in the name of Vatican II? Or maybe those old vestments and chalices that were discarded with a wink and a nod?

turn the priest around (but don’t route all the complainers’ phone calls to me),

How 'bout a little catechesis and backbone from the pastor? Have 'em call me if there’s a question or complaint.

get rid of the ugly felt banners hanging in the sanctuary (but don’t upset the kids who put these together),

Again, poor catechesis is the reason we have those felt banners in the sanctuary to begin with. Put 'em in the vestibule or religious education area where they properly belong.

get rid of the sign of peace and holding hands at the Our Father (but don’t make it look like we complainers are a bunch of nit-pickers)…

Nobody is asking that we get rid of the Sign of Peace (especially when done properly and reverently). And I’m not sure why an abuse like holding hands during the Pater Noster shouldn’t be addressed by - you guessed it - the pastor! Grow a pair!!

And the list goes on and on.

Don’t get me wrong, I am for every single one of these items. I have even started a men’s gregorian schola with a friend of mine (www.brazoschant.org) and we are enjoying much success. However, early on this process, I realized that many people’s ideas are different when it comes to how the liturgy needs to be solemnized. For many of these people, they have not read one bit of Sacrosanctam Consillium or Musicam Sacram. They are merely going by their own emotions. The goal is to educate people about what the church, in her wisdom and tradition, has already found to work for public worship. Reinventing hte wheel is tiresome.

Hear, hear!! You hit the nail on the head. TEACH! INSTRUCT! CATECHISE! Start now, for in 5-10 years we may have a liturgy to be proud of that truly honors our Lord in it’s fulness and richness.

 

[thistle]

From Pontifications

“We ought to get back the dimension of the sacred in the liturgy. The liturgy is not a festivity; it is not a meeting for the purpose of having a good time. It is of no importance that the parish priest has cudgeled his brains to come up with suggestive ideas or imaginative novelties. The liturgy is what makes the Thrice-Holy God present amongst us; it is the burning bush; it is the Alliance of God with man in Jesus Christ, who has died and risen again. The grandeur of the liturgy does not rest upon the fact that it offers an interesting entertainment, but in rendering tangible the Totally Other, whom we are not capable of summoning. He comes because He wills. In other words, the essential in the liturgy is the mystery, which is realized in the common ritual of the Church; all the rest diminishes it. Men experiment with it in lively fashion, and find themselves deceived, when the mystery is transformed into distraction, when the chief actor in the liturgy is not the Living God but the priest or the liturgical director.”

The link does not show this quote anywhere. Can you tell us how to find it?

Also the thread title confuses me. Are you saying the quoted part was written by Cardinal Ratzinger in his early days as a priest/bishop/ or cardinal or recently written since he became Pope?

 

[benedictgal]

The link does not show this quote anywhere. Can you tell us how to find it?

Also the thread title confuses me. Are you saying the quoted part was written by Cardinal Ratzinger in his early days as a priest/bishop/ or cardinal or recently written since he became Pope?

Thistle, this was written before he was elected Pope. If you scroll up the thread, you will find that the link is posted. SHMW (I hope I got it right) found it for us:

unavoce.org/cardinal_ratzinger_chile.htm

So, he was still Cardinal Ratzinger at the time he said this in Chile.

 

[RomanRevert]

Thistle, this was written before he was elected Pope. If you scroll up the thread, you will find that the link is posted. SHMW (I hope I got it right) found it for us:

unavoce.org/cardinal_ratzinger_chile.htm

So, he was still Cardinal Ratzinger at the time he said this in Chile.

What a great speech! Here is another little tidbit in that speech that I found to be quite interesting and oh, so true:

“The Second Vatican Council has not been treated as a part of the entire living Tradition of the Church, but as an end of Tradition, a new start from zero. The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest.”

Basically, this Council is nothing if not viewed through the lens of sacred Tradition and all previous Councils. This is an understanding that many just don’t get.

 

[benedictgal]

Having read the remarks in their entirety, I can now see how prophetic Ratzinger was, especially when it came to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Furthermore, the article gives a strong background to Pope Benedict’s line of thinking when he granted the Moto Proprio on the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.

Roman Revert, the lines following the excerpt you quoted bear mentioning (along with some serious reflection):

That which previously was considered most holy – the form in which the liturgy was handed down – suddenly appears as the most forbidden of all things, the one thing that can safely be prohibited. It is intolerable to criticize decisions which have been taken since the Council; on the other hand, if men make question of ancient rules, or even of the great truths of the Faith – for instance, the corporal virginity of Mary, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, the immortality of the soul, etc. – nobody complains or only does so with the greatest moderation. I myself, when I was a professor, have seen how the very same bishop who, before the Council, had fired a teacher who was really irreproachable, for a certain crudeness of speech, was not prepared, after the Council, to dismiss a professor who openly denied certain fundamental truths of the Faith.

Interesting in that after two years, we are seeing some quick movement on the part of Rome, thanks to Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[RomanRevert]

Having read the remarks in their entirety, I can now see how prophetic Ratzinger was, especially when it came to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Furthermore, the article gives a strong background to Pope Benedict’s line of thinking when he granted the Moto Proprio on the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.

Roman Revert, the lines following the excerpt you quoted bear mentioning (along with some serious reflection):

Interesting in that after two years, we are seeing some quick movement on the part of Rome, thanks to Pope Benedict XVI.

WRT the speed B16 is moving, I found this to be interesting as well as most encouraging … (Thank you Fr. Z!):

wdtprs.com/blog/2007/12/the-return-of-triumphalism/

And this quote:

“For those of you inclined stinginess who might think this is too little too late, remember that it takes longer to build than to tear down. The Holy Father is moving pretty quickly now.”