Earning our salvation

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ajcstr

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What is the best way to explain to a non catholic that we do not believe we can “earn our salvation”. Its very frustrating. I see some Q/A on the catholic answers site that address the issue, but is the best thing to refer them to the Council of Trent or the catechism? I just have the feeling they would react to the Q/A by saying its not true.
 
ajcstr said:
What is the best way to explain to a non catholic that we do not believe we can “earn our salvation”. Its very frustrating. I see some Q/A on the catholic answers site that address the issue, but is the best thing to refer them to the Council of Trent or the catechism? I just have the feeling they would react to the Q/A by saying its not true.
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Both Trent and the Catechism affirm that man is saved by Gods grace alone, but not without our consent/cooperation. Gods’ purpose is to draw our wills into alignment with His, not by forcing them-by molding them to the extent we allow Him to. This means, for us, stepping out in faith and doing His will in a variety of ways-including actions (works of love), thus meriting more grace, as per the Parable of the Talents. We’re to be a work and of His, and an expression of Him, whereby He makes us truly just, writing His laws on our hearts and in our minds, fulfilling the New Covenant promises. The fact that we must participate in this work-and that we must become truly just (not merely imputedly so) in order to enter heaven-is objectionable to some protestants who have a false understanding of the gospel. Catholics believe Gods grace helps them to be the beings He’s always intended us to be. Reformed theology emphasizes that Gods’ grace, for some reason, lets us off the hook from being the beings He’s created us to be.
 
fhansen said:
Both Trent and the Catechism affirm that man is saved by Gods grace alone, but not without our consent/cooperation. Gods’ purpose is to draw our wills into alignment with His, not by forcing them-by molding them to the extent we allow Him to. This means, for us, stepping out in faith and doing His will in a variety of ways-including actions (works of love), thus meriting more grace, as per the Parable of the Talents. We’re to be a work and of His, and an expression of Him, whereby He makes us truly just, writing His laws on our hearts and in our minds, fulfilling the New Covenant promises. The fact that we must participate in this work-and that we must become truly just (not merely imputedly so) in order to enter heaven-is objectionable to some protestants who have a false understanding of the gospel. Catholics believe Gods grace helps them to be the beings He’s always intended us to be. Reformed theology emphasizes that Gods’ grace, for some reason, lets us off the hook from being the beings He’s created us to be.
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Yes but there is a fine line here. If he were to say “Catholics are wrong because they believe they cooperate with God’s grace”, I would obviously still disagree but at least our position is stated accurately and he is just not in agreement with the theology behind it. When he says “Catholics are wrong because they believe their works earn their salvation”, that is where I have a problem because that is not accurate. I believe session 6 of the Council of Trent addressed this.

For all I know he could view Catholic Answers the way I view a Chick tract so i was just looking for something more “official”
 
Can we agree that works of justice do not save?

Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;
 
shawn38 said:
Can we agree that works of justice do not save?

Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;
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My friend, the Catholic Church does not teach that we earn our salvation by our own efforts, although it does teach that we have to work on our salvation. Paul says, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil. 2:12).
*
EDIT:*

And James says “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24).
 
Works without faith are useless for salvation. However faith with works is the foundation of Christianity. As James so aptly put it:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
 
shawn38 said:
Can we agree that works of justice do not save?

Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;
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I think we can agree that we are not saved by works. We are saved by God’s grace which is a free gift.
 
campeador said:
My friend, the Catholic Church does not teach that we earn our salvation by our own efforts, although it does teach that we have to work on our salvation. Paul says, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil. 2:12).
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Could you differentiate sanctification and justification? When do each take place?
 
shawn38 said:
Could you differentiate sanctification and justification? When do each take place?
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I see this tread is going to turn into a lengthy debate - along the way can someone please help me with my original question ? Then debate away !!
 
shawn38 said:
Could you differentiate sanctification and justification? When do each take place?
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I’m sorry my friend, I’m no theologian. Maybe you could make the differentiation and we could all see where you are going with this?
 
ajcstr said:
I think we can agree that we are not saved by works. We are saved by God’s grace which is a free gift.
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Great that we agree! Through our works we are sanctified. Are works will be judged. For those works which survive the judgment, we will receive our reward. But for those whose works are burned up, he will still be saved. (1 Cor 3:10-15).
 
ajcstr said:
I see this tread is going to turn into a lengthy debate - along the way can someone please help me with my original question ? Then debate away !!
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Maybe the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification can help:
15**.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. **The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works
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vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

Jon
 
Christine,

it’s a joint declaration “by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church”. It’s posted at the Vatican website. 🙂
 
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