Easter and Ishtar

[JAGCath28]

My dad studies with a group that claims that Easter as we celebrate it is really celebrating the fertility goddess Ishtar. So, in an effort to get a rise out of me and my sisters, he will say Ishtar instead of Easter. He did this yesterday and I asked him not to say it because it offends me. He asked me why since Ishtar is the aramaic word for Easter. I told him that may be true, but he doesn’t say it to refer to Easter but to refer to a fertility goddess. Then he said that’s what it is.

So, with Easter season here and the fact that one of my sisters will be confirmed in the Catholic church at Easter, I would like to be able to have a knowledgable discussion about this misrepresentation of the truth with my dad. I’m not trying to convince he is wrong, but show him why I believe what I believe if he continues to push the topic. (And knowing my father, he will.)

I’ve done some research (mostly on wikipedia…) on Ishtar and Easter. This is what I’ve found in summary:

Ishtar was a babylonian fertility goddess who was known in other religions as Aphrodite or Venus for example. Babylon fell around 500 BC to the Persians. So, Ishtar would not have been a goddess in practice at the time of Christ. An ancient germanic word for spring time was oestre which was also related to a fertility goddess. English is a germanic language so translating oestre to easter for springtime totally makes sense. It seems that only English speaking cultures use Easter to refer to the resurrection instead of Pascha which I guess would be passover. I know that there is this thing called the “Easter Controversy” which was the determination of when Easter should be celebrated and this was finalized in 325 AD at the 1st Council of Nicea. I guess what I would like to somehow prove to my dad is that Ishtar or Oestre was not in practice at the time of this council which would mean that it is all semantics.

Does anyone have any other resources or information that I could use when having this discussion with him? Or any suggestions on how to go about this? I really appreciate it.

God Bless,

Jessica

 

[Dan-Man916]

This is rather frustrating. Yes, the word Easter has been borrowed (it is German in origin), but just because the same word is used doesn’t mean that the pagan meaning is attached to it any more than worshipping the big yellow ball in the sky on Sunday (Sun-Day to the pagans).

Perhaps you should start using the Greek term, Pascha, which is the Greek for of the Hebrew word, Passover.

Most people who try to accuse Catholics or having warmed-over pagan feasts have their own internal issues that they are projecting out. I know that this is your Father, and I am not trying to dis-respect him, but the idea that Easter is borrowed from worship of a fertility goddess is ridiculous.

Perhaps, it should be pointed out that YOU know exactly what you worship on Pascha, even if your Dad thinks differently. Since we understand the word Easter to mean the Greek term, Pascha, all that this is, is mincing words to accuse the Catholic Chruch of something it is not. The meaning and intent is there.

 

[JAGCath28]

This is rather frustrating. Yes, the word Easter has been borrowed (it is German in origin), but just because the same word is used doesn’t mean that the pagan meaning is attached to it any more than worshipping the big yellow ball in the sky on Sunday (Sun-Day to the pagans).

Perhaps you should start using the Greek term, Pascha, which is the Greek for of the Hebrew word, Passover.

Most people who try to accuse Catholics or having warmed-over pagan feasts have their own internal issues that they are projecting out. I know that this is your Father, and I am not trying to dis-respect him, but the idea that Easter is borrowed from worship of a fertility goddess is ridiculous.

Perhaps, it should be pointed out that YOU know exactly what you worship on Pascha, even if your Dad thinks differently. Since we understand the word Easter to mean the Greek term, Pascha, all that this is, is mincing words to accuse the Catholic Chruch of something it is not. The meaning and intent is there.

Those are my thoughts EXACTLY! Thank you! I just have to figure out how to have this “word” battle with him. We aren’t worshipping a fertility goddess, we are celebrating the resurrection of Christ. To distort that and claim that we are worshipping a false god really upsets me. It’s not just in reference to Catholics, but to all “Christians” who celebrate Easter. I do have to add that he does celebrate “Passover” but not when the Jewish holiday is but at another time that this group says it should be.

 

[VociMike]

This assertion could only come from very provincial people, people who assume that the whole world uses the words they use, and has used them for 2000 years. But in fact, for most of the history of the Church, most Christians have not used the word “Easter”.

 

[Tom]

You might point out that the death and resurrection of Jesus have absolutely nothing to do with fertility. Ask him to explain how the death and resurrection relate to fertility.

 

[VociMike]

BTW, that’s pretty amazing that your father would taunt you regarding your faith just for some entertainment.

 

[DrPiano]

I would actually flip it on him. Force him to prove to your satisfaction that our celebration of Easter/The Paschal Mystery is “based on” Ishtar. Make him do the research himself (nothing from this group of his - only using documents > 700 years old) and prove it to you. And ask him to not call it “Ishtar” until he does. (of course, he’ll never be able to prove it, but maybe in doing the research himself, he’ll figure out how bogus the claim is).

 

[Eucharisted]

Easter is the Christian season wherein we celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The only people who associate Easter with paganism and with candy are pagans and businessmen.

 

[Dan-Man916]

Without digging into Jessica’s family situation, I have found from personal experience, that those who make such outlandish accusations against the Church do so because of something inside. That doesn’t mean they are evil people. They can sometimes be the victim of others who fill their minds with these false ideas, or they can have a deep hurt inside them about a wrong somewhere. having arguments with them to “prove something” rarely helps, in my opinion. The core reason needs to be addressed.
I know a woman who grew up Catholic in the 50’s, went to Catholic school and was taught by nuns, and is now an evangelical who believes all sorts of things about the Church. We used to talk often. She is a good person, but I have never been able to convince her of what she perceives the Catholic Church to be, and she grew up in it.
She has hurts inside from her early years that were never healed, and the church she belongs to now welcomed her and made her feel loved and a part of something. She never received that, for whatever reason. So how could anyone else’s words trump her experience. Only until she opens up and is able to experience that same love and welcome in a Catholic Church would she ever give it another chance.

I think the same is true for many who believe such things about the Cath. Church.

 

[Genesis315]

Catholics call it a lot of different things depending on the language–most relate it to pascha.
newadvent.org/cathen/05224d.htm

The English term, according to the Ven. Bede (De temporum ratione, I, v), relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, which deity, however, is otherwise unknown, even in the Edda (Simrock, Mythol., 362); Anglo-Saxon, eâster, eâstron; Old High German, ôstra, ôstrara, ôstrarûn; German, Ostern. April was called easter-monadh. The plural eâstron is used, because the feast lasts seven days. Like the French plural Pâques, it is a translation from the Latin Festa Paschalia, the entire octave of Easter. The Greek term for Easter, pascha, has nothing in common with the verb paschein, “to suffer,” although by the later symbolic writers it was connected with it; it is the Aramaic form of the Hebrew pesach (transitus, passover). The Greeks called Easter the pascha anastasimon; Good Friday the pascha staurosimon. The respective terms used by the Latins are Pascha resurrectionis and Pascha crucifixionis. In the Roman and Monastic Breviaries the feast bears the title Dominica Resurrectionis; in the Mozarabic Breviary, In Lætatione Diei Pasch Resurrectionis; in the Ambrosian Breviary, In Die Sancto Paschæ. The Romance languages have adopted the Hebrew-Greek term: Latin, Pascha; Italian, Pasqua; Spanish, Pascua; French, Pâques. Also some Celtic and Teutonic nations use it: Scottish, Pask; Dutch, Paschen; The correct word in Dutch is actually Pasen Danish, Paaske; Swedish, Pask; even in the German provinces of the Lower Rhine the people call the feast Paisken not Ostern. The word is, principally in Spain and Italy, identified with the word “solemnity” and extended to other feasts, e.g. Sp., Pascua florida, Palm Sunday; Pascua de Pentecostes, Pentecost; Pascua de la Natividad, Christmas; Pascua de Epifania, Epiphany. In some parts of France also First Communion is called Pâques, whatever time of the year administered.

 

[little_c]

We aren’t worshipping a fertility goddess, we are celebrating the resurrection of Christ. To distort that and claim that we are worshipping a false god really upsets me.

IMHO, the distortion, not to mention the appearance of a counterfeit Jesus, would best be put to rest if one followed the teaching of Jesus and Paul more faithfully and reailze that death and resurrection in Christ is a daily celebration.

Luke 9:23 -
And He was saying to {them} all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

1 Cor. 15:31 I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

 

[JAGCath28]

I would actually flip it on him. Force him to prove to your satisfaction that our celebration of Easter/The Paschal Mystery is “based on” Ishtar. Make him do the research himself (nothing from this group of his - only using documents > 700 years old) and prove it to you. And ask him to not call it “Ishtar” until he does. (of course, he’ll never be able to prove it, but maybe in doing the research himself, he’ll figure out how bogus the claim is).

I actually think this is a really great idea. Thank you.

 

[JAGCath28]

Without digging into Jessica’s family situation, I have found from personal experience, that those who make such outlandish accusations against the Church do so because of something inside. That doesn’t mean they are evil people. They can sometimes be the victim of others who fill their minds with these false ideas, or they can have a deep hurt inside them about a wrong somewhere. having arguments with them to “prove something” rarely helps, in my opinion. The core reason needs to be addressed.
I know a woman who grew up Catholic in the 50’s, went to Catholic school and was taught by nuns, and is now an evangelical who believes all sorts of things about the Church. We used to talk often. She is a good person, but I have never been able to convince her of what she perceives the Catholic Church to be, and she grew up in it.
She has hurts inside from her early years that were never healed, and the church she belongs to now welcomed her and made her feel loved and a part of something. She never received that, for whatever reason. So how could anyone else’s words trump her experience. Only until she opens up and is able to experience that same love and welcome in a Catholic Church would she ever give it another chance.

I think the same is true for many who believe such things about the Cath. Church.

I think you could be right here. My dad grew up in the Catholic church. He converted to a protestant in the 70’s when he was in the Marine Corps. From the stories I heard, he had a very disfunctional childhood due to my grandparents (mostly grandpa). It probably has something to do with it. It’s only been in the last 10 years or so that he started with this group that makes these claims such as the Easter/Ishtar thing.

I pray for him daily because it is difficult to talk to him about this stuff because he has such a skewed view of God. It really makes me sad.

 

[Church_Militant]

Here’s a couple of CA articles that might help some.**

Pagan Influence Fallacy by James Akin
**Is Catholicism Pagan?

 

[JAGCath28]

You can probably figure out what the group is, but I’m not going to name it in this thread cause it really isn’t the point.

This is quoted from one of the lectures and this is what my dad believes:

In Acts 12:4 Easter is only mentioned once in the Bible. But, it is different in Greek. The Greek word means Passover. Easter is a word, in error, that has been added to God’s word. The traditions of men make void the word of God.

Ishtar was a Goddess, the Queen of Heaven. An egg fell from heaven. Fish rolled it to the bank. Doves sat upon it and out hatched Ishtar. From that comes Easter, an idolatrous, heathen spring festival tradition. The egg symbolizes fertility, the Queen of fertility, Ishtar, Venus.

Each year at the festival, each female, was forced to participate at least once in an open free-for-all orgy. Are you hearing what Easter really is? Most people, in ignorance, don’t understand what they are doing at Ishtar.

Easter does not come from the Passover of Jesus, the crucifixion. It is a sin to connect the two - if you have knowledge of it. Christian churches today, roll Easter eggs, teach fertility rights at Easter rather than teach Jesus was our Passover lamb. Roll Easter eggs. Satan loves it. It’s heathenism in our own Christian communities. The traditions of man have seduced the houses of God. As if this were not enough, they bring in The Easter Rabbit. Have you ever heard: “Quick like a Bunny?” Are you getting the point, friend?

It’s not funny. Ignorance is bliss? How quick Christians are swayed to the traditions and thoughts of man rather than the truth and simplicity of our Father’s word. It’s a disgrace, a shame, that they would enjoy and rather take part in orgies. (Enjoy orgies? What?) We wonder why God does not bless us when we are out rolling Easter eggs to Ishtar. It’s a shame that egg from Heaven didn’t break.

This is what I’m reminded of anytime Easter is brought up.

 

[VociMike]

Why not tell your father you’ll only discuss the bible with him in Hebrew or Greek, since those are the languages it’s written in. Then there can be no language confusion.

 

[rpp]

Can’t we go at least one Christmas or Easter without having to retread the whole “Catholics are Pagans” silliness? :takethat:

 

[DrPiano]

Can’t we go at least one Christmas or Easter without having to retread the whole “Catholics are Pagans” silliness? :takethat:

At least its not someone who actually believes this garbage who is asking the question! I’m glad Jennifer tried to find some answers here to answer her dad with

 

[JAGCath28]

Can’t we go at least one Christmas or Easter without having to retread the whole “Catholics are Pagans” silliness? :takethat:

I’m sorry. It’s just that I didn’t find a thread that went into the Ishtar thing in detail which is what I want.

I don’t think you understand what it is like to have to have your father tell you that you are worshipping a fertility god and only if you worship “his” passover are you celebrating Christ’s resurrection. I’m sure it is annoying to have to see this every year, and I apologize. I’m trying to learn more about my Catholic faith and the church’s history so that I can have an intelligent discussion with my dad about this.

Please see this thread if you have any more questions about the seriousness that I feel about this.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=317048

God Bless,

Jessica

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m sorry. It’s just that I didn’t find a thread that went into the Ishtar thing in detail which is what I want.

I don’t really think rpp was fussing at you JAG, he was just pointing out that we all get used to “same ole, same ole” with some of this stuff.

I don’t think you understand what it is like to have to have your father tell you that you are worshiping a fertility god and only if you worship “his” passover are you celebrating Christ’s resurrection. I’m sure it is annoying to have to see this every year, and I apologize. I’m trying to learn more about my Catholic faith and the church’s history so that I can have an intelligent discussion with my dad about this.
…
God Bless,

Jessica

Don’t apologize Jessica. We’re on you side all the way.

I understand how you feel though. I had a friend who bought into all this junk several years ago and I used to get forwarded e-mails from him loaded with it on a fairly regular basis. Some I’d read, and some I would delete as soon as I saw the topic. On one occasion we had a fairly long phone debate on some of this and I began to see how really fruitless it was to talk to him.

Finally during this last election it came to a head because he kept sending me really “out there” propaganda about different candidates and issues. Twice I went to the trouble to point out the inconsistencies of what he sent to no avail. Each time telling him that I didn’t want this junk cluttering up my inbox.

Finally, after the 3rd try, I sent him a simple message that said “Which part of ‘DON’T SEND ME THIS STUFF!’ did you not understand?”

I lost the friend and haven’t heard from him since. I feel a little bad about it, but not bad enough to write and mend the fence because the guy just wouldn’t listen to reason.

I realize that it is indeed more difficult when the person is family and worse still when they are your Dad. I was blessed with Catholic parents who did pretty well by us with regard to the faith, even when idiot-me went astray from the faith for many years.

Hopefully we have given you some ammunition to help defuse the polemics, but the only other thing I can suggest is that you get real assertive with Dad and tell him that if he keeps on badmouthing your faith and cranking out all this junk that you’ll start decreasing the frequency of your visits accordingly because a) it’s specious and untrue, and b) you’re just plain tired of hearing it.

It seems he might be a big fan of Lorraine Boettner and if so I have something that my friend Wolseley put together and has been real handy. It’s called… The “Boettner List”: Fact or Fiction?

I notice that there doesn’t seem to be a problem with your moral life in his opinion, and that may be one of the best responses that you can give. A testimony of how the Catholic faith motivates you to seek the face of Christ in your daily life and inspires you to live out the Gospel. That may shut him up though I have nothing to base that upon.

Please don’t hesitate to contact me by PM if I can be of any assistance at all and rest assured that you will be in my prayers and Mass intentions.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.