Easter and Ishtar

  • Thread starter Thread starter JAGCath28
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m sorry. It’s just that I didn’t find a thread that went into the Ishtar thing in detail which is what I want. 😊

I don’t think you understand what it is like to have to have your father tell you that you are worshipping a fertility god and only if you worship “his” passover are you celebrating Christ’s resurrection. I’m sure it is annoying to have to see this every year, and I apologize. I’m trying to learn more about my Catholic faith and the church’s history so that I can have an intelligent discussion with my dad about this.

Please see this thread if you have any more questions about the seriousness that I feel about this.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=317048

God Bless,

Jessica
Sorryu, I did not mean anything against you personally. But every Christmas and Easter season we get these same questions over and over. On rare occassions, someone asks the question in a different way. Some are sincere, as you appear to be, and that is fine. However, many are just here to mock and scold from a position of so ignoraant that I often wonder how they can simultaneously believe this and generate enough mental energy to draw a breath.

Sorry, I did not mean to side-track yor thread.
 
This is what I’m reminded of anytime Easter is brought up.
Tell him you had a great time at the rehersal orgy last week and are really looking forward to the ‘real thing’ in a few weeks. I might send him a bunny-basket filled with colorful eggs too.
 
My dad studies with a group that claims that Easter as we celebrate it is really celebrating the fertility goddess Ishtar.

Does he know the source of this idea ? Some of us do, & the reasons given for the idea, though not self-evidently mistaken when first put forward, are in fact without any basis. There is no connection; nor would a real connection between the words prove anything: there are plenty of boys & men called David, but that is no reason to connect them with the Israelite king. Words & names should not be confused with** things**, nor with** meanings**. Is every Michael an angel ? Surely not. But that is one of the mistakes made here.​

FWIW, Ishtar was a goddess of sexuality (in all its forms), love, battle, & of several dynasties. She is also one of several gods to die - except that unlike her husband or lover Dumuzi she is restored to life (in some traditions; in others, they take turns being alive and dead). Easter is an English name of Old English origin for the feast called Pascha in Latin & Greek. So the connection does not work until Old English was used to speak of that feast. As Ishtar comes from a language which died out in what is now Iraq no later (& probably earlier) than the third century AD, & as the word Easter is first recorded in England about 300 years later at the earliest, there are difficulties with the Ishtar-Easter theory.
So, in an effort to get a rise out of me and my sisters, he will say Ishtar instead of Easter. He did this yesterday and I asked him not to say it because it offends me. He asked me why since Ishtar is the aramaic word for Easter. I told him that may be true, but he doesn’t say it to refer to Easter but to refer to a fertility goddess. Then he said that’s what it is.

He is mistaken:​

So, with Easter season here and the fact that one of my sisters will be confirmed in the Catholic church at Easter, I would like to be able to have a knowledgable discussion about this misrepresentation of the truth with my dad. I’m not trying to convince he is wrong, but show him why I believe what I believe if he continues to push the topic. (And knowing my father, he will.)

I’ve done some research (mostly on wikipedia…) on Ishtar and Easter. This is what I’ve found in summary:

Ishtar was a babylonian fertility goddess who was known in other religions as Aphrodite or Venus for example. Babylon fell around 500 BC to the Persians. So, Ishtar would not have been a goddess in practice at the time of Christ. An ancient germanic word for spring time was oestre which was also related to a fertility goddess. English is a germanic language so translating oestre to easter for springtime totally makes sense. It seems that only English speaking cultures use Easter to refer to the resurrection instead of Pascha which I guess would be passover. I know that there is this thing called the “Easter Controversy” which was the determination of when Easter should be celebrated and this was finalized in 325 AD at the 1st Council of Nicea. I guess what I would like to somehow prove to my dad is that Ishtar or Oestre was not in practice at the time of this council which would mean that it is all semantics.

Does anyone have any other resources or information that I could use when having this discussion with him? Or any suggestions on how to go about this? I really appreciate it.

God Bless,

Jessica
 
Tell him you had a great time at the **rehersal orgy **last week and are really looking forward to the ‘real thing’ in a few weeks. I might send him a bunny-basket filled with colorful eggs too.
If this is what you guys typically do in preparation for Easter…I may convert.😃
 

Does he know the source of this idea ? Some of us do, & the reasons given for the idea, though not self-evidently mistaken when first put forward, are in fact without any basis. There is no connection; nor would a real connection between the words prove anything: there are plenty of boys & men called David, but that is no reason to connect them with the Israelite king. Words & names should not be confused with** things**, nor with** meanings**. Is every Michael an angel ? Surely not. But that is one of the mistakes made here.​

FWIW, Ishtar was a goddess of sexuality (in all its forms), love, battle, & of several dynasties. She is also one of several gods to die - except that unlike her husband or lover Dumuzi she is restored to life (in some traditions; in others, they take turns being alive and dead). Easter is an English name of Old English origin for the feast called Pascha in Latin & Greek. So the connection does not work until Old English was used to speak of that feast. As Ishtar comes from a language which died out in what is now Iraq no later (& probably earlier) than the third century AD, & as the word Easter is first recorded in England about 300 years later at the earliest, there are difficulties with the Ishtar-Easter theory.
Thanks! That has been very helpful.

He is mistaken:​

I went to this link. I’m not familiar with this site. Is there a specific page I’m looking for? I typed Ishtar into the search bar and yielded a lot of results. I just want to make sure I’m not missing what you wanted me to see when you pointed out the website.

God Bless,

Jessica
 
Thanks! That has been very helpful.

I went to this link. I’m not familiar with this site. Is there a specific page I’m looking for? I typed Ishtar into the search bar and yielded a lot of results. I just want to make sure I’m not missing what you wanted me to see when you pointed out the website.

God Bless,

Jessica

Search under “Easter” using this link:​

Sorry about the confusion.
I would also strongly recommend this book:
of which details can be read here:
and here:
 
“East” is derived from the old teutonic German for “rise” or “dawn” and that is the root word for both “Easter” and the pagan goddess. “Easter” does not derive from “Eostre/Ostare”, they both derive from the the word “ostar”. “Easter” is derived through the old teutonic German word for “resurrection” which has “rise” (east) as its root and “Eostre” derives from the word for “dawn” which also has “rise” (east) as its root. With all due respect to Venerable Bede, he was not a linguist and did not look deep enough into the similar origins of the words.

As has already been mentioned by some, it is only the Germanic languages which use the term “Easter” for the celebration of the death and resurrection of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ. Almost every other language refers to the feast days by some derivative of the Hebrew word for Passover which is “Pesach”, mostly via the Greek word for the same, “Pascha”. This includes ALL of the romance languages (derived from Latin) of which the speakers are predominantly Catholic.

Neither is there any historical connection between the Persian goddess Ishtar and the Saxon goddess Eostre. The Ishtar - Easter link is a myth.

englatheod.org/eostre.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eostre

John
 
Your dad could be right. Maybe you should be more open minded. There was a babylonian Godess named Ishtar and was acknowledged as more than just a godess of fertility. She stood for feminism, female independence, and promiscuity. In the catholic church today i see a lot of this. No longer is the man the spiritual guide but the woman instead, particularly in the Catholic faith. This is in direct contradiction to scriptures. In fact, some believe the statue of liberty was erected in honour of her. (Ishtar was also known as the lightbringer and the lady has a torche in her hand) She was given the title “Queen of heaven” synonymous with the title catholics give Mary. Why partake in a feast that could be wrong? Why commit a possible abomination? I just don’t get it…Why don’t we be safe and celebrate passover instead of believing in men and their traditions.

Oh by the way, there is evidence in scripture of the worship of the Queen of Heaven (Ishtar), and it is an abomination. Just read Jeremiah 44. Also, it is a little wierd how Catholics flock to Lourdes during Easter. (Ishtar was also known as a godess of healing.) Also its a little wierd that there are exactly 9 months between Easter and Christmas. And why does Easter fall on a different day every year? And what does the “lighting of the fire” ceremony have to do with Easter? Does it have pagan origins? So many questions, so few answers. Why not partake in something concrete instead of a possible abomination?
 
Hey Luda_111, that was quite a first post you made there. Its a pity you didn’t read what others had posted already before posting what you have. (Edited)
You think there are many questions and few answers? You obviously haven’t been asking the right people. I am sure that if you pose your questions in a respectful manner on this forum you will find many people able to provide the answers you seek.

John
 
So many questions, so few answers. Why not partake in something concrete instead of a possible abomination?
This is the great thing about conspiracy theories. All one needs do is to propose a bunch of what if’s. It is like watching the holy grail “documentaries” on the history channel or the Nostradamus “prophecies”. A bunch of inferences are made where there is some kind of commonality of a word or phrase, and there is also a wide and varied interpretation of symbols that are given to be taken only in a very specific way. Then, when you connect the inferences and the subjective interpretations and such a way, it is meant to lead the person to the only logical conclusion that could be left.
But this isn’t real reasoning, nor is it founded on any historical basis.
it is founded on what if’s and creative ways of interpretation.

This kind of stuff is all the rage nowadays. As I said, just look for what they put in the History Channel. It is easy for people to buy into this because it is simplistic and doesn’t require critical thought or any real research.
 
So does anyone know what word is used in Latin?
Pasch or paschal. The root of this word is Hebrew and refers to Passover. Christ is rightly the Passover sacrifice.

Easter is a later derivative that has no root in Latin nor any relation to the actual origin of the Paschal Feast popularly known in English as Easter.

Easter from Istar. :rolleyes:
 
So, in any Church document, Easter is written, in Latin, as Pasch?
 
Easter is a later derivative that has no root in Latin nor any relation to the actual origin of the Paschal Feast popularly known in English as Easter.
As I posted earlier, “Easter” is from the old Teutonic German word for “resurrection”. It has no pagan roots.

John
 
thank you, prodromos.

I think this gives Jessica quite a bit of good info to present to her Father, next time he brings this up.
 
What does he say about the days of the week?

God

Helios, god of the Sun Sunday
Luna or Selena, goddess of the Moon Monday
Mars, god of war Tuesday
Mercury, messenger of the gods Wednesday
Zeus, god of thunder Thursday
Venus, or Aphrodite, goddess of love Friday
Saturn, god Saturday

Does he wear a wedding band, that’s pagan. Throwing rice at weddings, pagan. Names of the months, pagan. Names of many of the stars, pagan and many more. Point these things out to him and if that doesn’t do the trick then tell him you will be taking part in the rite of Easter. The women will run naked and the men will chase them in their togas while eating boiled eggs.
 
What does he say about the days of the week?

God

Helios, god of the Sun Sunday
Luna or Selena, goddess of the Moon Monday
Mars, god of war Tuesday
Mercury, messenger of the gods Wednesday
Zeus, god of thunder Thursday
Venus, or Aphrodite, goddess of love Friday
Saturn, god Saturday

Does he wear a wedding band, that’s pagan. Throwing rice at weddings, pagan. Names of the months, pagan. Names of many of the stars, pagan and many more. Point these things out to him and if that doesn’t do the trick then tell him you will be taking part in the rite of Easter. The women will run naked and the men will chase them in their togas while eating boiled eggs.
Umm… Could you give me the address and time of that Easter rite, please? Sounds interesting…

😛
 
So does anyone know what word is used in Latin?

Pascha - whence the PNN & adjective Pasc[h]al[is] & Pasc[h]asius (= “pertaining to Easter”) 🙂​

Rather interestingly, there is at least one “Babylon connection” to names of Popes:
is one of several Popes of Syrian origin. Sisinnu - not to be confused with Sissinnu - is a name for the constellation known to us as Virgo. (Sissinnu is a name for the constellation known to us as Coma Berenices, “Berenice’s Hair”). The termination -ius in Latin = “belonging to X”. So Dionysius, Liberius, Eleutherius, Mavortius, etc. = belonging to Dionysius, Liber, Eleutherus, Mars, etc.

This is a linguistic connection - it does not show that there is connection between what is named: it is illegitimate to seize on the fact that someone is called Dionysius, & say, “that person is honoured as a Saint, but he is really named after the god Dionysius.” If these names proved a religious connection as well as an etymological derivation, the Apostle & the deacon Philip would both have to connected with Philip II of Macedon, merely because they all share a name. But etymological derivation of a name does not of itself provide any information as to why it is given: someone called John may be called after a Saint - or after his grandfather, without reference to any Saint whatever. Names formerly associated with other gods are capable of gaining new meanings & associations: another reason it is rash to jump to the conclusion that Christians have pre-Christian meanings & uses of names in mind when they use them.

Was Sisinnius called after the constellation ? It’s unlikely, because the name Sisinnu is Akkadian, & Akkadian had (from all other available evidence) died out centuries before Sisinnius became Bishop of Rome. Some Mesopotamian cults survived for many centuries, more or less disguised by other names or titles. Another possibility is that the name had become traditional in his family. It is impossible to be sure why he was named as he was, so it is impossible to use his (very interesting) name as evidence of the paganisation of Christian Rome. It is notable because of its Akkadian origin, which is what makes it a useful test of the possibility of connections between Christian Rome & pre-Christian Mesopotamia.

Some words have survived - saffron is from the place-name Azupiranu; Mediaeval Latin meschinus & its derivatives come from Akkadian mushkenum (a social class) & there are others. So there are not no linguistic (or other) connections with European languages. But, they have to be sought out - they are unobtrusive, & misidentifying the languages used in Mesopotamia leads to finding them where they don’t exist. We can turn the question back on the “Babylon-connectors”: what connection have these genuine Akkadian or Sumerian words with the words, or even the objects, or the ideas & doctrines, of Catholicism ? The burden of proof is on them, not on Catholics: for it is they and not Catholics who assert that “Catholicism is pagan”.

Are there connections between Catholicism & the pre-Christian world ? Certainly - but showing a connection is not enough if the idea is to use it to condemn (or praise) Catholicism. Connections are of many types: literacy was a Sumerian invention, but that fact is insufficient to show that literacy is evidence of worshipping Sumerian deities. Many of the connections between Roman Catholicism & Mesopotamia arw the result of their being linked by the culture/religion of the Bible: Israel had much in common with its neighbours (such as some of its ideas about kingship); the influence on the Church of passages & concepts reflecting such commonalties means that by having something in common with Israel, a culture outside Israel was influencing the Church. But influence is not the same as distortion - the “Babylon-connectors” seem to overlook this. Or, they seem to regard the Bible as constituting a zone free of all influence from outside - it acts as a “force-field”, which is impervious to all non-Israelite ideas that are not materially present in the Bible. This violates the incarnational principle, & it absolutises an object as an object,which is a contradiction of the sovereignty of grace.

I have some notes on Ishtar herself. Denying a connection between her name & that of Easter is not enough - the person making the connection can always say, “But how can you show there is no connection ?” So some details about her may be use to explain why the connector is on weak ground. 🙂
 
So, in any Church document, Easter is written, in Latin, as Pasch?

And if the Latin-speaking Church really did wish to honour the Sun, Rome would not call it Dies Dominica (= Hé Kuriaké Hémera, as in the NT) but Dies Solis - just as it was named before the Church Christianised the calendar. Anybody who has a look in a Latin Breviary or Latin Liturgy of the Hours can verify the Latin day-names for themselves. All of the pre-Christian Latin names have been changed - so, Saturday is now Sabbatum; while the five week days are distinguished by numerical order, not, as formerly, by Divine names. If this is vidence of Christian paganising, it is very hard to see where the paganising is. The only way of finding evidence of paganising in the Latin Christian day-names, is to say that it is invisible because it is so terribly subtle - & what is the evidence of that ? Not the day-names, but other features of Catholicism or of Roman or Christian culture & history - IOW, the Latin Christian day-names would then be “pagan” not in themselves, but because they are associated with things in Latin Christianity that are pagan for some other reason - such as being derived from [something derived from] a “pagan” source; such as Babylon or elsewhere in Mesopotamia.​

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top