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luda_111
Guest
Isn’t the cross a pagan symbol?
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rpp
Guest
No. The origin of the cross as a symbol in the Christian religion is not based on it’s use as a pagan symbol. Rather it is based on the more concrete use of the cross as a device used for execution. The person being executed was nailed to then it was put upright and the person was left exposed to the elements until they died.
In the case of Christianity, it was the Son of God who was executed in this rather gruesom and cruel manner.
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mlchance
Guest
Of course it is. So is the triangle, square, rectangle, et cetera. In fact, all of geometry is actually pagan, and architects are modern day pagan priests using pagan shapes to construct temples to pagan gods.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Dan-Man916
Guest
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mlchance
Guest
Thanks. Someone has to point out the obvious. It might as well be me. For the pagan-architet connection, consider this evidence:
A pagan structure:
http://www.intentblog.com/archives/Cheops_pyramid_Egypt_3_small.jpg
The repetition of this pagan structure in modern times:
http://www.sanbenito.k12.tx.us/Departments/foodservice/foodserv_images/new_pyramid.jpg
Quite obviously, this “food pyramid” has been designed to trick people into making offerings to deified Egyptian kings. Also note the base of the “food pyramid,” which is obviously a subversive inclusion of the pagan Greek glorification of the human form.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Dan-Man916
Guest
OH MY GOSH!
I never realized that eating white bread to be at the top of the pagan worship symbol.
I’ll never do it again! Swear to God!
lol
I never realized that eating white bread to be at the top of the pagan worship symbol.
I’ll never do it again! Swear to God!
lol
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Cross-shaped-symbols are known from 1800 BC: but here’s the catch 
- the fylfot or swastika is also known from Mesopotamia. Does it follow that the inhabitants were members of the Nazi Party ? If not - why must the “cross” in pre-Christian Mesopotamia (or in any other pre-Christian culture)
- have in those cultures the same associations & significance as it does for (say) Catholics ?
- have in Catholicism the same associations & significance as in those cultures ?
This is where Donald Rumsfeld is helpful: to interpret how things may or may not be related, the “unknown unknowns” need to be borne in mind, as do the other things he mentioned
There are many “unknown unknowns” in the study of ancient Iraq, so it is always plssible to be as certain as might be desired. The study of the region is like a jigsaw with many pieces missing - enough of it remains for many of the pieces to join together harmoniously, & for a connected picture to be visible; it’s not so defective that there is doubt as to whether the jigsaw is a picture of a farm or a battleship. This means that although a lot is lost beyond recovery, a lot that is said about the culture can be identified as untrue - such as the notion that there were no significant differences between the religion of the area, & Catholicism, or Christianity generally.Comparisons of (say) Catholicism with the religion of Ancient Iraq are straightforward enough provided one is not aware of the differences - Ishtar is the Semitic name of the goddess Inana, & one of the myths about Inana tells of her descent to the Netherworld. Once there, she dies, & her body is impaled on a stake, for three days. Sound familiar ? This is one of the weaknesses in Christian attempts to condemn Catholicism by pointing to pre-Christian or non-Christian analogies to this or that thing in Catholicism: the logic of the argument proves too much, because if applied consistently it would convict things valued by the objector. And this is just how non-Christians often apply the idea.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Not in Ancient Iraq. The goddess Gula (= “great”) was associated with healing; as were the gods Ninazu & Damu.
IIRC, the Jewish calendar was lunar, like those in Ancient Iraq; the date of Easter is variable because it is based on a luni-solar calendar.
Easter is an older feast than Christmas. The Nativity of Christ was instituted at Rome in 336, as a means of combatting Arianism (& perhaps also of destroying the rhythm of the pre-Christian Roman calendar). The Paschal season OTOH has its origins in the first century - the proclamation of the Gospel was that Christ is Risen, & everything else was arranged around that. (That’s horribly over-simplified, obviously, but I hope it helps.This lighting of the fire suggests a knowledge of “The Two Babylons” - which is interesting from many POVs, but very unreliable as a guide to info about ancient Iraq. Are you thinking of the lighting of the Easter Candle ? You certainly ask some interesting questions
As for the QoH in Jeremiah: Ishtar is certainly a possible identification, but so are one or two others. The use of the title among Christians:- expresses important facts about the BVM
- is not of itself condemned by the passages in Jeremiah, because what titles mean, changes through time: Queen Elizabeth II has little in common with Elizabeth I apart from the title. To apply the Jeremiah passages to the BVM without noticing the differences between the Babylonian province of Judah in 586 or so, & Mediaeval Europe about 2,000 years later, is like describing Elizabeth II as though she were not significantly different from Elizabeth I. Which makes no sense
If in some sense the BVM can legitimately be called “Queen of Heaven”, then it is not inappropriate to do so. Catholics use the title, Catholics know what is meant, & it needs to be shown - not merely asserted - that Catholics have the QoH of Jeremiah 7 & 44 in mind. Catholics cannot be expected to dilute what they think, believe, or value, just for the benefit of those who object to the words used. Understanding objections to Catholic belief matters, but it is not the same as watering down what is explained. Catholics are not Catholics for the purpose of having objections made to Catholic things - Catholicism exists, not for the purpose of being objected to, but for the purpose of being accepted as revealed by God.
BTW - the activities of the worshippers of the QoH are mentioned by Jeremiah. If Catholics worship that QoH, where are the activities he mentions ? Catholics don’t do them. Should this not suggest that what Catholics do, is not like what he condemned ? But if it is not like what Jeremiah condemned - what evidence is there that Catholics do in fact do what Jeremiah condemned ?
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ledaub1
Guest
This sounds like some of Arnold Murray’s teachings. Google him - some of his teachings are way out there.
cultlink.com/sentinel/murray.html
cultlink.com/sentinel/murray.html
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rsesar
Guest
I found some information for you on the following website. It’s kind of scary but it is what it is.
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Ishtar
Ishtar was held to be the great Mother Goddess in ancient Assyrian and Bablyonian mythology. It was believed she was the daughter of the sky-god, Anu, or the moon god, Sin. Gradually over time, she absorbed characteristics of various goddesses and represented various aspects. Her worship spread throughout the Middle East, Greece, and Egypt. She was an oracle, governed over sex and war, and protected men from evil. As the many-breasted Opener of the Womb, she was the giver of all life; as the Destroyer and Queen of the Underworld, she also was the taker of all life. As the moon goddess, her waxing and waning governed the cyclical birth and death of the planet. She was the Heavenly Cow, the Green One, and the Mistress of the Field.
As a war goddess Ishtar was specially honored in Assyria. She was depicted as carrying a bow and quiver, her warlike aspect receiving emphasis with a beard similar to the god Ashur. Inscriptions state that Ishtar was party to choosing of the king. Ashur-natsir-pala II (884-860 BC), so certain of the divine election, was the monarch renowned for his cruelty toward rebels and enemies. He orders of skinning captives live or cutting off their hands became accepted policy.
Her son Tammuz, also called the Green One, became her lover when reaching manhood. Ishtar descended into the realm of the dead to rescue Tammuz; a myth similar to those of Inanna and Damuzi, and Demeter and Kore. When Ishtaer descended into the underworld she appeared as a hostile and threatening figure; death overcame her while there, which caused fertility and sexual desire to become dormant, and await her seasonal return.
An Akkadian fragment describes the wailing of Ishtar for Tammuz, whose annual death, resurrection, and marriage strongly indicate a fertility ritual connected to an agricultural cycle. His worship spread into Canaan, where Ezekiel complained that even at “the door of the gate of the Lord’s house…there sat women weeping for Tammuz.”
As Queen of Heaven, she replaced Sin as the moon deity; she rode through the sky at night in a chariot drawn by goats or lions. The zodiac was known as the “girdle of Ishtar,” which also refers to the ancient moon calendar. In this position she was the giver of omens, and prophecy through dreams, and through her magic, others could obtain secret knowledge.
Ishtar was associated with the planet Venus. Both the lion and dove were sacred to her. A.G.H.
Sources:
Guiley, Rosemary Ellen, The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft, New York: Facts On File, 1989, p. 172
Cotterell, Arthur, A Dictionary of World Mythology, New York, G. P. Putman’s Sons, 1980, pp. 36-37
Back to Home Page or Contents or Asian Mythology or Article Index
Ishtar
Ishtar was held to be the great Mother Goddess in ancient Assyrian and Bablyonian mythology. It was believed she was the daughter of the sky-god, Anu, or the moon god, Sin. Gradually over time, she absorbed characteristics of various goddesses and represented various aspects. Her worship spread throughout the Middle East, Greece, and Egypt. She was an oracle, governed over sex and war, and protected men from evil. As the many-breasted Opener of the Womb, she was the giver of all life; as the Destroyer and Queen of the Underworld, she also was the taker of all life. As the moon goddess, her waxing and waning governed the cyclical birth and death of the planet. She was the Heavenly Cow, the Green One, and the Mistress of the Field.
As a war goddess Ishtar was specially honored in Assyria. She was depicted as carrying a bow and quiver, her warlike aspect receiving emphasis with a beard similar to the god Ashur. Inscriptions state that Ishtar was party to choosing of the king. Ashur-natsir-pala II (884-860 BC), so certain of the divine election, was the monarch renowned for his cruelty toward rebels and enemies. He orders of skinning captives live or cutting off their hands became accepted policy.
Her son Tammuz, also called the Green One, became her lover when reaching manhood. Ishtar descended into the realm of the dead to rescue Tammuz; a myth similar to those of Inanna and Damuzi, and Demeter and Kore. When Ishtaer descended into the underworld she appeared as a hostile and threatening figure; death overcame her while there, which caused fertility and sexual desire to become dormant, and await her seasonal return.
An Akkadian fragment describes the wailing of Ishtar for Tammuz, whose annual death, resurrection, and marriage strongly indicate a fertility ritual connected to an agricultural cycle. His worship spread into Canaan, where Ezekiel complained that even at “the door of the gate of the Lord’s house…there sat women weeping for Tammuz.”
As Queen of Heaven, she replaced Sin as the moon deity; she rode through the sky at night in a chariot drawn by goats or lions. The zodiac was known as the “girdle of Ishtar,” which also refers to the ancient moon calendar. In this position she was the giver of omens, and prophecy through dreams, and through her magic, others could obtain secret knowledge.
Ishtar was associated with the planet Venus. Both the lion and dove were sacred to her. A.G.H.
Sources:
Guiley, Rosemary Ellen, The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft, New York: Facts On File, 1989, p. 172
Cotterell, Arthur, A Dictionary of World Mythology, New York, G. P. Putman’s Sons, 1980, pp. 36-37
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
This was not his invention:
- But the core of his teaching centers around the sinister “serpent seed” doctrine that has been linked to various identity “Christian” and right-wing neo-nazi groups. What this doctrine teaches is that in the Garden of Eden, Eve’s sin was that of having literal sexual intercourse with the serpent, which resulted in the pregnancy that produced Cain; the devil’s literal offspring.
For your reading pleasure (or not
) there is this, which is probably where the very first poster’s information ultimately comes from:- Then look at Easter. What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, as pronounced by the people Nineveh, was evidently identical with that now in common use in this country. That name, as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar…[much more follows].
- [http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect32.htm (http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect32.htm)
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rpp
Guest
This topic is profoundly ridiculous. There is absolutely no intellectual merit to this ridiculous ideas. I will not waste my time looking at these posts. I would encourage al others to do the same and simply ignore these STUPID and BIGOTED LIES. And not feed people who will do an say anything for attention.
Yes, let me make this clear, anyone who proposes these ideas is a BIGOT! Oh, and they are a liar as well because they do not actually believe it themselves. Just like Jack Chic.
Yes, let me make this clear, anyone who proposes these ideas is a BIGOT! Oh, and they are a liar as well because they do not actually believe it themselves. Just like Jack Chic.
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Habsfan
Guest
Just curious…
How do you get along in todays world?
How do you remember your appointments and stuff. I mean, obviously you do not use a modern calendar since the days and months are of pagan origin.
Other ‘stuff’ too…
like attending birthday party’s or anniversary gatherings? All pagan in orign.
What do you do when someone proposes a toast(PAGAN ORIGIN)? Step out of the room?
Do you advise everyone that you see wearing a wedding ring that they are paricipating in a pagan ritual?
Just curious how you do it.
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luda_111
Guest
The exchanging of wedding rings is a waste of money. In fact, there is no need for mass, a simple signing of the marriage register and wedding reception is enough. People have been brainwashed into believing the churchianity wedding ceremony is the norm, aswell as subliminally brainwashed into believing Jesus was an effiminate man with blond hair.
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luda_111
Guest
The serpent seed doctrine could be true. However, we should love thy neighbour regardless, for God loves everyone including members of the synagogue of Satan.
Matthew 23:27
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:33-34
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
John 8:44-47
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Matthew 23:27
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:33-34
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
John 8:44-47
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
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luda_111
Guest
1 John 3:4-12 - Sheds some light on the sepent seed theory:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
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Habsfan
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Verisimilitude
Guest
I think the brainwashing is in the form of marriage must be sanctioned by the secular state rather than a religious body. I got married in the Church because my vow to my wife was made before God. I could care less if Uncle Sam blesses or knows of my marriage. Uncle Sam cares only because they want to tax me more or less depending on if I am married. Marriage has become a business for the state just as divorce has, insurance, medical… This is why I say the state should not sanction marriage one way or other and have no say whether gays can marry or siblings or cross specie unions or a man and a woman.
If one person (male or female) wants to make a agreement with another person (male or female) to share inheritance, give power of attorney for medical decisions, buy a house together, open a bank account together, get health insurance together…for that they can go to a courthouse and insurance companies, not to a Church.
Catholic/Christians celebrate Easter for religious reasons, but just because it has been drawn into the secular realm for advertising and candy sales does not mean it is returning to any pagan roots, for the root of Easter is Christ’s resurrection. Catholic/Christians must fight the urge to join the secularization of religious matters like marriage and high holy days and at least for themselves observe these things in the proper manner. By that proper example in practice will others know the truth of our beliefs. Without the proper example in practice we have what we have now which is like religious anarchy.
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Jerry_Marino
Guest
everyday is easter for me, i celebrate my risen Christ daily. unfortunately, we have diluted the celebration with bunnies and eggs just like we have diluted Christmas with little elves helping santa clause deliver toys but nonetheless it where your heart is at, is it in the easter bunny or a risen LORD?
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alan1941
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Dear Jessica, It is useless to argue with a bigot and that is what your father has proved himself to be. Tell him when he has an open mind you will be happy to have an intelligent discussion with him, until then tell him you will not discuss it with him. Also tell him how his taunting hurts you and ask him why, if he loves you, he would do such an unloving thing
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