Easter Greeting From the Mormons.

[Jamison97]

To sum up what or how to define a “Christian” you could simply say that a Christian is one who worships the Christ as the Messiah and who believes he is the Son of God. I could go on for hours and hours, but that’s really the most simple definition. Yes, Mormon doctrines are much different from ours, but they still do worship the Christ, so I think of them as Christians, but New Wave ones. Of course, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is much older than the Church of Latter-Day Saints!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

To sum up what or how to define a “Christian” you could simply say that a Christian is one who worships the Christ as the Messiah and who believes he is the Son of God. I could go on for hours and hours, but that’s really the most simple definition. Yes, Mormon doctrines are much different from ours, but they still do worship the Christ, so I think of them as Christians, but New Wave ones. Of course, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is much older than the Church of Latter-Day Saints!

Amen:thumbsup:!!

 

[Jamison97]

Thank you very much Christine.

 

[ricko]

It’s funny that you would say Mormons are Christian as they believe they are the only Christians. Here is what the leaders of that “Christian” church have to say about us and others:

“Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).

“All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).

[Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).

You really believe that they worship the same God? Here is what they teach about God.

As the Mormon church has taught since that time, God the Father was once a man who was created by his God, was born and lived on another earth, learned and lived the “Mormon gospel,” died, and was eventually resurrected and made God over this universe. As such, he retains forever his flesh-and-bones body.

 

[ricko]

Since they teach that God is flesh and bones they do not accept what the Christian bible says about God:

John 4:24: “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” And how do you define “spirit”? Listen to Christ in Luke 24:39: “A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

Now the Mormons will not believe what the Christian bible says if it conflicts with their beliefs.

The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism yet it does recognize the baptisms of countless other churches as valid.

It takes more than just using the name of Jesus Christ to be a Christian. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of our Christian bible. They believe in multiple Gods but only worship the God of our world.

They are not Christian by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[dianaiad]

It silly of you to make these non-comparisons.

There is one definition of Christianity. There is one truth. It is not based on opinion. Not mine or yours. It is not relative to where you are standing, or what car you drive, or what you like for dinner, or anything else.

God is not one thing that is a lie, and another that is not. You have been taught lies, about the nature of God. Lies are not truths. A CHRISTIAN does not believe what the LDS church teaches about God.

This is the truth, and yes, I think it is clear that it offends you.

Since I believe sincerely that I have and understand the Truth about Jesus the Christ, then if I am offended by what you say, then it is not truth that is offensive, is it?

What is happening here is that you aren’t getting the point—or rather, you are (since you are anything but stupid) but simply cannot allow yourself to admit it.

Think about this for a moment: many other Christians tell you that you are NOT a Christian; no Catholic can be. Why?

Oh, they come up with many different reasons: transubstantiation, perhaps, or ‘works based religion,’ or prayers to the Saints and to Mary…lots of different excuses. Doesn’t matter, the objections are specious, ill natured and usually presented incorrectly anyway. The point is, THEY are telling you that YOU are not Christian.

What is your opinion of their opinion?

Do you tell them that they are correct–that they have the right to judge your Christianity and that you will henceforth cease to claim the title for yourself?

No? Why?

 

[dianaiad]

Please see zaff’s post and reread Psalms 22. Jesus often quoted the OT, y’know, to make a point. The point here is not that the father forsook him. This is the mocking that was going on around Him, as He hung on the Cross. He clarified, before dying, that no, He was not forsaken. The Father never left Him.

And yes, the persons of the Trinity are three, distinct, individuals who have a relationship to each other.

Jesus said, and did, all for our benefit. He never stopped teaching, even while suffering in torture for our sins.

Actually, He did no such thing.

According to the various accounts of His death, He cried “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?” He told the thieves that they would be with Him in paradise; He commended His mother to the care of His brother John, and said “Father, into Thy Hands I commend my Spirit.” None of the accounts has all these statements in it.

None of those words ‘clarify’ that God had not forsaken Him. The most you can say is that they indicate that HE had not forsaken His Father–but we already knew that; it was sort of the whole point of His life and death; He was betrayed on all sides, but He betrayed none.

You may consider that Jesus was quoting the psalm…but if so, He was certainly quoting it to some purpose–and that purpose was the same lament that the psalmist had; God had forsaken Him.

Personally, I think that in a way, He did. Oh, not really, but did God the Father withdraw all light from Christ so that He might experience everything WE do? A full measure of the sacrifice?

I think that perhaps He did. I don’t actually know, of course, but it seems somehow–appropriate. After all, as horrific as Christ’s death was, many, many people have suffered worse physical deaths. Longer, more painful, more denigrating. So what WAS it that made Christ’s experience so uniquely hard to bear, and so complete a sacrifice that it could redeem the world?

I’m simply musing, here, not arguing.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Actually, He did no such thing.

According to the various accounts of His death, He cried “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?” He told the thieves that they would be with Him in paradise; He commended His mother to the care of His brother John, and said “Father, into Thy Hands I commend my Spirit.” None of the accounts has all these statements in it.

None of those words ‘clarify’ that God had not forsaken Him. The most you can say is that they indicate that HE had not forsaken His Father–but we already knew that; it was sort of the whole point of His life and death; He was betrayed on all sides, but He betrayed none.

You may consider that Jesus was quoting the psalm…but if so, He was certainly quoting it to some purpose–and that purpose was the same lament that the psalmist had; God had forsaken Him.

Personally, I think that in a way, He did. Oh, not really, but did God the Father withdraw all light from Christ so that He might experience everything WE do? A full measure of the sacrifice?

I think that perhaps He did. I don’t actually know, of course, but it seems somehow–appropriate. After all, as horrific as Christ’s death was, many, many people have suffered worse physical deaths. Longer, more painful, more denigrating. So what WAS it that made Christ’s experience so uniquely hard to bear, and so complete a sacrifice that it could redeem the world?

I’m simply musing, here, not arguing.

Jesus is God, so it is not possible for God to leave Him.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[JohnVIII]

I still have no idea how people can consider Mormons to be non-christian.

I have no idea how someone can consider himself both Mormon and Catholic! Can you explain this?

Do you except Brigham Young as a true prophet of God? Then you must believe that Adam is God the Father, and Eve is God the Mother. Do you except current presidents of the Mormon Church as prophets? Then you need to believe that Brigham Young was wrong about this, but even though he worshiped the wrong god he’s still a true prophet. Now after this, “are Mormons Christians”? If the answer is “yes”, why don’t you also ask “are members of Islam Christians”? Islam believes that Jesus was sinless and a prophet of God, you should be consistent and say that Islam is Christian as well!

Happy Easter! When Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to St. Thomas, St. Thomas said “my Lord and my God”!

 

[why_me]

I have no idea how someone can consider himself both Mormon and Catholic! Can you explain this?

Do you except Brigham Young as a true prophet of God? Then you must believe that Adam is God the Father, and Eve is God the Mother. Do you except current presidents of the Mormon Church as prophets? Then you need to believe that Brigham Young was wrong about this, but even though he worshiped the wrong god he’s still a true prophet.

fairlds.org/apol/ai002.html

This should answer your questions about adam-god.

This is short and to the point:

lightplanet.com/response/answers/isgodadam.htm

 

[Paul_G]

Since they teach that God is flesh and bones they do not accept what the Christian bible says about God:

You claim Jesus is God, was He not resurrected with is physical body intack?

John 4:24: “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” And how do you define “spirit”? Listen to Christ in Luke 24:39: “A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

“God is [a] Spirit”, and so are we. By the way “God is a fire” as well.

Now the Mormons will not believe what the Christian bible says if it conflicts with their beliefs.

Do you have an example?

The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism yet it does recognize the baptisms of countless other churches as valid.

Nobody likes to be rejected, however, most LDS are satisfied with the baptism they received by one holding authority to do so, and will not require another.

It takes more than just using the name of Jesus Christ to be a Christian. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of our Christian bible.

I agree, At the very least one must believe in Him, in what He has said, and act on it. That is what a Christian is, no matter what other one may be called

They believe in multiple Gods but only worship the God of our world.

Are you saying the Catholics are mono-theistic?

They are not Christian by any stretch of the imagination.

You have the right to be wrong

Paul.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Nobody likes to be rejected, however, most LDS are satisfied with the baptism they received by one holding authority to do so, and will not require another.

LDS reject all baptisms but their own. They also believe, scripturally, that all of Christianity is an abomination.

By their fruits, that is how we know.

Are you saying the Catholics are mono-theistic?

Are you saying we aren’t? Careful, you don’t want deception to be the fruit, eh?

You have the right to be wrong

Paul.

Yes, God has given mormons their free will, and they have taken it and ran.

 

[Paul_G]

LDS reject all baptisms but their own. They also believe, scripturally, that all of Christianity is an abomination.

By their fruits, that is how we know.

“…all their creeds were an abomination in his sight…” strong language I agree, but I agree the creeds are false man made attempts , in the absence of guidance from the spirit, to accommodate the Greek philosophies that infiltrated the church. However, this point of divergence from the truth does not disqualify those that follow these ideas, as a follower of Christ. It just makes you incorrect as to your definition of the God head

Are you saying we aren’t? Careful, you don’t want deception to be the fruit, eh?

Absolutely, no way you slice it, manufacturing a definition of God that tries to harmonize the thoughts of the Old and New Testament on this subject fails utterly on both counts. To say that you believe in one God, you must do just that – God - no Son, no Holy Ghost, no 3 in 1 – Just God. Ask a Jewish person, whose modal of God you are trying to conform to, if they believe you practice monotheism. I’m pretty sure the answer will be no.

Yes, God has given mormons their free will, and they have taken it and ran.

Right towards Him.

Paul

 

[Stephen168]

Are you saying the Catholics are mono-theistic?

Ask a Jewish person, whose modal of God you are trying to conform to, if they believe you practice monotheism. I’m pretty sure the answer will be no.

 

[dianaiad]

PaulG:

Are you saying the Catholics are mono-theistic?

AND
PaulG:

Ask a Jewish person, whose modal of God you are trying to conform to, if they believe you practice monotheism. I’m pretty sure the answer will be no.

…and your point for this would be…???

You do realize that, in the view of truly monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam, Christianity IS polytheistic.

…whether you like that idea or not.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“…all their creeds were an abomination in his sight…” strong language I agree, but I agree the creeds are false man made attempts , in the absence of guidance from the spirit, to accommodate the Greek philosophies that infiltrated the church. However, this point of divergence from the truth does not disqualify those that follow these ideas, as a follower of Christ. It just makes you incorrect as to your definition of the God head

Absolutely, no way you slice it, manufacturing a definition of God that tries to harmonize the thoughts of the Old and New Testament on this subject fails utterly on both counts. To say that you believe in one God, you must do just that – God - no Son, no Holy Ghost, no 3 in 1 – Just God. Ask a Jewish person, whose modal of God you are trying to conform to, if they believe you practice monotheism. I’m pretty sure the answer will be no.

Right towards Him.

Paul

As I said, by their fruits.

 

[RebeccaJ]

…and your point for this would be…???

You do realize that, in the view of truly monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam, Christianity IS polytheistic.

…whether you like that idea or not.

What’s your point? That Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Christ?

Perhaps you should read Justin Martyr’s conversation with Trypho. He clearly explains the concept of the Trinity, to a Jew.

 

[ricko]

…and your point for this would be…???

You do realize that, in the view of truly monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam, Christianity IS polytheistic.

…whether you like that idea or not.

Where are the Old Testament seeds of the Trinity? In Deuteronomy 6:4, one finds the Shema, the Jewish expression of monotheism: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” There are two words in Hebrew for one. Yachid means only one. Echod means a compound unity or a united one—as in Genesis: “evening and morning . . . one day” or “husband and wife . . . one flesh.” This second word, echod, which describes a unity of beings, is the one used to speak of God, who is not by essence a solitude, but a unity of three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Other implicit references to the Trinity in the Old Testament include Gen. 1:26, which reads, “Let us make man in **our **image, according to **our **likeness.” Since God was alone at the time of creation (Isa. 44:24, Neh. 9:6) with no other gods, this expression of plurality must refer to God himself. At the Tower of Babel God says, “Let **us **go down,” yet no one else comes down with him (Gen. 11:7).

Even with the above scriptures the Jews did not have an understanding of the Trinity. It was not until Jesus came that the nature of the Trinity was revealed.

 

[Paul_G]

As I said, by their fruits.

Time to build a straw house for that straw man don’t you think?

Paul

 

[Paul_G]

…and your point for this would be…???

You do realize that, in the view of truly monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam, Christianity IS polytheistic.

…whether you like that idea or not.

Have a nice day

Paul