Eastern Cardinals

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

From the Code of Canon Law.

**CHAPTER III : THE CARDINALS OF THE HOLY ROMAN CHURCH

Can. 349** The Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church constitute a special College, whose prerogative it is to elect the Roman Pontiff in accordance with the norms of a special law. The Cardinals are also available to the Roman Pontiff, either acting collegially, when they are summoned together to deal with questions of major importance, or acting individually, that is, in the offices which they hold in assisting the Roman Pontiff especially in the daily care of the universal Church.

Can. 350 §1 The College of Cardinals is divided into three orders: the episcopal order, to which belong those Cardinals to whom the Roman Pontiff assigns the title of a suburbicarian Church, and eastern-rite Patriarchs who are made members of the College of Cardinals; the presbyteral order, and the diaconal order.

§2 Cardinal priests and Cardinal deacons are each assigned a title or a deaconry in Rome by the Roman Pontiff.

§3 Eastern Patriarchs within the College of Cardinals have their patriarchal see as a title.

§4 The Cardinal Dean has the title of the diocese of Ostia, together with that of any other Church to which he already has a title.

Can. 351 §1 Those to be promoted Cardinals are men freely selected by the Roman Pontiff, who are at least in the order of priesthood and are truly outstanding in doctrine, virtue, piety and prudence in practical matters; those who are not already Bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

§2 Cardinals are created by decree of the Roman Pontiff, which in fact is published in the presence of the College of Cardinals. From the moment of publication, they are bound by the obligations and they enjoy the rights defined in the law.

§3 A person promoted to the dignity of Cardinal, whose creation the Roman Pontiff announces, but whose name he reserves in petto, is not at that time bound by the obligations nor does he enjoy the rights of a Cardinal. When his name is published by the Roman Pontiff, however, he is bound by these obligations and enjoys these rights, but his right of precedence dates from the day of the reservation in petto.

You will notice that Church membership is not mentioned anywhere.

Also if you look at Canon 349, it states that it is the job of the Cardinals to assist the Roman Pontiff especially in the daily care of the universal Church.

As Eastern Catholics are part of the universal Church I see the argument that they should be Cardinals as persuasive as those who are against the practice.

 

[malphono]

From the Code of Canon Law.

CHAPTER III : THE CARDINALS OF THE HOLY ROMAN CHURCH…

You will notice that Church membership is not mentioned anywhere.

That’s what I said. There’s no difference other than the “orders” which were “Church membership neutral” long before the “revised” CIC.

Also if you look at Canon 349, it states that it is the job of the Cardinals to assist the Roman Pontiff especially in the daily care of the universal Church.

Well, so much for today’s canon law lesson. :yawn: If what is (re)stated in that canon wasn’t the purpose of the College in the first place, I can’t imagine what was.

As Eastern Catholics are part of the universal Church I see the argument that they should be Cardinals as persuasive as those who are against the practice.

The East and Orient are certainly part of the Universal Church, no question about that. At the same time, though, I don’t see the pro-red hat argument as being at all persuasive. This matter is one of the rare things where I totally agree with the late Maximos V (and the Melkites in general, for that matter), but I’m not up for a pre-Christmas argument, which isn’t t going to change a thing anyway.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The East and Orient are certainly part of the Universal Church, no question about that. At the same time, though, I don’t see the pro-red hat argument as being at all persuasive. This matter is one of the rare things where I totally agree with the late Maximos V (and the Melkites in general, for that matter), but I’m not up for a pre-Christmas argument, which isn’t t going to change a thing anyway.

I do not know where the negativity is coming from. From reading this I get a great feeling of hostility towards those who think differently than you and Maximos V.

The only Eastern Cardinal I have ever seen wearing a red hat was the Maronite Cardinal.

I do not take this as a right or wrong issue, I feel that both sides have their views and support them in their choice. I see nothing wrong with either one.

Just don’t understand the apparent hostility.

 

[malphono]

I do not know where the negativity is coming from. From reading this I get a great feeling of hostility towards those who think differently than you and Maximos V.

If it’s “negative” to stand for Oriental tradition, then I guess I’m guilty.

The only Eastern Cardinal I have ever seen wearing a red hat was the Maronite Cardinal.

As I said [post=6082448]earlier[/post], I haven’t. The only one I have seen in a red biretta is Vakkey Cardinal Vithayathil of the Syro-Malabar Church. As a matter of fact, I believe that Syro-Malabar clergy in general are the only ones who wear (wore) the Roman biretta. The Maronites absolutely did not and do not.

Just don’t understand the apparent hostility.

It’s not “hostility” as much as it weariness. Dealing with the “elephant in the room” (as another poster once said), can be tiring.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If it’s “negative” to stand for Oriental tradition, then I guess I’m guilty.

Well it seems a bit presumptuous to want Oriental tradition to be practiced by all Eastern Catholics.

As I said [post=6082448]earlier[/post], I haven’t. The only one I have seen in a red biretta is Vakkey Cardinal Vithayathil of the Syro-Malabar Church. As a matter of fact, I believe that Syro-Malabar clergy in general are the only ones who wear (wore) the Roman biretta. The Maronites absolutely did not and do not.

It was pointed out to me that it was the Maronites but maybe you are correct and it is the Syro-Malabars.

It’s not “hostility” as much as it weariness. Dealing with the “elephant in the room” (as another poster once said), can be tiring.

Just stating it as I see it. Sorry.

 

[malphono]

Well it seems a bit presumptuous to want Oriental tradition to be practiced by all Eastern Catholics.

From that, it seems to me that the late Maximos V was even more presumptuous. After all, he was a validly elected Patriarch.

It was pointed out to me that it was the Maronites but maybe you are correct and it is the Syro-Malabars.

If you look around, you’ll find some photos of Cardinal Vithayathil in a red biretta.

 

[Diak]

It should be a neutral issue. The Cardinalate is strictly an honorific title and does not impact in any way enrollment of a bishop in his particular Ritual Church nor should precipitate a conflict with the traditional dress of his particular ritual Church. He simply is not bound to wear any of the Latin honorific clothing that accompanies it.

Patriarch Josyp (Slipjy) put his red hat on one time - to be professionally photographed after receiving the Cardinalate, and then never wore the “cardinal suit” again.

 

[JohnT58]

I don’t really care what hats people wear, but, it seems to me, that as the Pope is head of the Universal Church, Eastern and Latin rites together, that the Eastern Rite Churches should have a voice in who gets elected, not only Latin cardinals. How, and in what capacity they exercise that voice is up to them, but the opportunity should be there. Some chose to accept the title of cardinal, some don’t.

 

[Aramis]

I don’t really care what hats people wear, but, it seems to me, that as the Pope is head of the Universal Church, Eastern and Latin rites together, that the Eastern Rite Churches should have a voice in who gets elected, not only Latin cardinals. How, and in what capacity they exercise that voice is up to them, but the opportunity should be there. Some chose to accept the title of cardinal, some don’t.

At present, if they refuse the title, they forfeit the vote.
THey CAN accept the title, and never wear the hat. (Roman Cardinals don’t have the option; The Rubrics for Roman Vestments include the Cardinalate and “Chaplain of the Papal Household” (Monsignori) honors’ distinctive regalia.

 

[msncool]

there are three types of cardinals.cardinal bishops are the bishops of seven sees around romeand eastern rite patriarchs; the first of these in order of creation is dean of the college and ex officio bishop of ostia in addition to his other see.cardinal deacons are priests with functions in the papal government.

 

[marymol]

blessingexhibit.org/

’ A blessing to one another ’ - that is what we are called to be …as reminded by Ven. Pope John Paul11 …and it shows our ‘older’ and tradition following Jewish brethren wearing something that seems very similar to the biretta - a surprise , since some of the online articles on same , state that it is a much later addition of the West .

Thus , good to read that Major ArchBishop Varkey Vithayathil is courageous and of Godly wisdom , to follow what can be claimed rightly as a bit of the ancient tradition of The East … his name Varkey is after St.George ( GheeVarghese ) and possibly, Pope John Paul 11 had rightly forseen that he would be instrumental , in doing his role , in a remarkably wise and peaceful manner , with the characterstics of what Apostle James describes as true wisdom - gentle , compliant, merciful …unlike earthly wisdom
( now, surprise here too, that in Old Testament , this distinction between the two types of wisdom does not seem to be mentioned …could it be that just as creation has undergone corruption, so has other created agents ) …

The Major ArchBishop, in turn , has helped the good harmony between the three Church traditions , in his native land … ; those with wisdom of of this world, and the jealousy and ambition that comes with it , might disagree, with the pretention of sharing first hand experience …

Good to read too , of his embracing the tradition of honoring the important invitation , to be a part of the administrative responsibilty in the Universal Church , by accepting the role of Cardinal …would think that for the tradition of hospitality honoring East , anything less would be considered almost as an insult …

Now, may be , our Jewish brethren could also help to bring some true tradition in all these areas , even free some of the Church attire that seems to carry too close a resemblance to what came much later… …with lots of painful memories …

Peace and blessings !

 

[Cetil]

An interesting aside to your discussion here is the fact that Cardina lAgagianian the Patriarch of Armenia came close to election in the conclave of 1958 as was confirmed by John XXIII. Now, that would have been interesting!

C.

 

[SyroMalankara]

blessingexhibit.org/

’ A blessing to one another ’ - that is what we are called to be …as reminded by Ven. Pope John Paul11 …and it shows our ‘older’ and tradition following Jewish brethren wearing something that seems very similar to the biretta - a surprise , since some of the online articles on same , state that it is a much later addition of the West .

Thus , good to read that Major ArchBishop Varkey Vithayathil is courageous and of Godly wisdom , to follow what can be claimed rightly as a bit of the ancient tradition of The East … his name Varkey is after St.George ( GheeVarghese ) and possibly, Pope John Paul 11 had rightly forseen that he would be instrumental , in doing his role , in a remarkably wise and peaceful manner , with the characterstics of what Apostle James describes as true wisdom - gentle , compliant, merciful …unlike earthly wisdom
( now, surprise here too, that in Old Testament , this distinction between the two types of wisdom does not seem to be mentioned …could it be that just as creation has undergone corruption, so has other created agents ) …

The Major ArchBishop, in turn , has helped the good harmony between the three Church traditions , in his native land … ; those with wisdom of of this world, and the jealousy and ambition that comes with it , might disagree, with the pretention of sharing first hand experience …

Good to read too , of his embracing the tradition of honoring the important invitation , to be a part of the administrative responsibilty in the Universal Church , by accepting the role of Cardinal …would think that for the tradition of hospitality honoring East , anything less would be considered almost as an insult …

Now, may be , our Jewish brethren could also help to bring some true tradition in all these areas , even free some of the Church attire that seems to carry too close a resemblance to what came much later… …with lots of painful memories …

Peace and blessings !

I hope the honor extends His Beatitude the rights he has been requesting for his Church, that to extend it’s jurisdiction beyond the limits that the Curia has placed. He should have the freedom to create dioceses throughout India and beyond, I would suggest even to be recognized as Catholicos-Patriarch of the Syro-Malabar Church.

 

[marymol]

May the Holy Spirit continue to lead all involved, to the best of decisions …for a fragile landscape , with its ever changing political intrigues … and may all be mindful too, of the hard learned lessons on Church unity /disunity …

may be even the penitential use of Godly wisdom , to be compliant /submissive
( trusting ) , merciful and thus , to be even an example to others , is also in His will …

. God who is faithful , will come through at the right time ( and , He already has shown so , at many levels , that can be recalled with gratiude .)

Good to see how this son, who is embattled on one hand , also has the good insight into some powerful remedies that can bring forth good , to the whole human family …

Having read some negative comments about Pope Pius !X , on another thread, was moved to look up more about his times and role …to realise that , even as The Church was going through tumultous times and loss of temporal power , he was focused on matters of long term importance , to bring forth Godly peace into more hearts , thus instrumental in having the gifts of the dogmas of Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibilty , for The Church …

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20000903_pius-ix_en.html

May be …may be , the recent events at St.Peter’s too have a prophetic edge …after all, God had used magnificently, the attack on Pope John Paul 11 …to bring forth His pleasing will …that brought forth tremendous good … (even if more can be done , in what was accomplished )

A woman in red , seemingly moved by diabolical forces , who attcaked the Pope …and all of the Catholic world now , hopefully , praying even more , for the safety and intentions of the Holy Father …

And , such intention , would it not include the yearning to claim for all , our Lord’s promise of peace …

And , good to see our Major Archbishop is also faithful , to the need of the times , to claim all the good that The Father want for His children …including the joy of boldly inviting in our Mother , the New Eve !

Again,may The Spirit move more hearts , to all that is good and in His Holy , pleasing will !

Peace and blessings !

 

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

I don’t think any one mentioned, but how many non-Roman cardinals are there at this mooment?

 

[Amadeus]

I don’t think any one mentioned, but how many non-Roman cardinals are there at this mooment?

Currently, there are 5 Eastern Catholic members of the College of Cardinals, out of a total of 184 living cardinals, by rank:

1. Cardinal Sfeir, 89, Patriarch of the Maronites;
2. Cardinal Daoud, 79, Patriarch Emeritus of the Syrians;
3. Cardinal Delly, 82, Patriarch of the Chaldeans;
4. Cardinal Vithayathil, 82, Major Archbishop of the Syro-Malabars; and
5. Cardinal Husar, 76, Major Archbishop of the Ukrainians.

Cardinal Ghattas, the recently deceased Patriarch of the Copts, was also a member of the College. His successor, Patriarch Antonios Naguib, has not been created cardinal but he is sure to be named as such in the next consistory.

The respective Patriarchs of the Melkites and of the Armenians have not been named to the cardinalate (or refused to be so named as some rumors go).

The current Patriarch of the Syrians, Patriarch Younan, is not a cardinal (yet) probably because Cardinal Daoud is still alive.

Likewise, the Major Archbishops of the Romanians and of the Syro-Malankaras have not been named to the cardinalate, being the newest kids in the block?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I personally would not want my Catholicos to accept the title of Cardinal because it is inferior in rank to his dignity.

If he wishes to be a part of electing the next Pope, I say let him speak to the Pope regarding this matter with the other Patriarchs, Catholicoi, and Major Archbishops and let them decide that they can make use of the option if they so choose - without manditorilly having to accept any title of the Latin Church.

 

[malphono]

I personally would not want my Catholicos to accept the title of Cardinal because it is inferior in rank to his dignity.

If he wishes to be a part of electing the next Pope, I say let him speak to the Pope regarding this matter with the other Patriarchs, Catholicoi, and Major Archbishops and let them decide that they can make use of the option if they so choose - without manditorilly having to accept any title of the Latin Church.

100% on target!