Eastern Catechisms

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Whats up Rony. Thanks. That might be a little too expensive.
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Nothing much, I have yet to study for Prof. Rice’s final, but I’ll get to it one of these days 🙂

Yeah, they’re expensive. Books like these are generally expensive and out of print. It would be nice to bring it back in print.

God bless,

Rony
 
ronyodish said:
Nothing much, I have yet to study for Prof. Rice’s final, but I’ll get to it one of these days 🙂

Yeah, they’re expensive. Books like these are generally expensive and out of print. It would be nice to bring it back in print.

God bless,

Rony
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I haven’t started studying for it either. I have some papers I have to write first.

It would be nice to have it in print. Have you had a chance to read this book?
 
Have you had a chance to read this book?
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I wish. I don’t have a copy of it, and I’m trying to cut down on my book purchases, especially ones like these that cost an arm and a leg.

I did, however, buy Beggiani’s Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality - The Syriac Tradition, and Murray’s Symbols of Church and Kingdom - A Study in Early Syriac Tradition, but I haven’t read them yet.

God bless,

Rony
 
Amadeus said:
I will stand corrected but the ***Catechism of the Catholic Church ***is THE catechism for the entire Catholic Church. It is not a catechism solely for the Latin Church.

Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris may come up with their own particular catechism, which is being encouraged by Rome, but such catechisms must be approved (by Rome) before they become official.

The goal being that the particular catechisms must be complementary to each other and to the universal CCC. Thus, contradictions are avoided.
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I dunno if your understanding matches up with that of Rome. Pope John Paul II said in the introduction of the CCC:
“This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine”.
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The CCC is an assisting tool for local Catechisms, not the universal replacement to which local Catechisms may or may not be added. It has a decidedly Latin approach, though it tries harder than previous catechisms to be mindful in expressing things in a more universal manner. Any Catholic is welcome to use the CCC (I personally LOVE it), but it’s not the end-all and be-all of Catechisms. It is an effort by Rome to initiate a catechetical renewal in the Church, and it expresses the Faith in a mostly Latin manner in order to do so.

To write a Catechism that could touch on all the Catholic theological approaches, even the different ones WITHIN the Latin tradition, and still remain accessible to even the moderately educated would be a nearly impossible task, IMO. Better to stick with a multiplicity of local catechisms, while maintaining an intention of unity in Faith, and that’s precisely what the stated goal of the CCC is, namely to get the ball rolling in that direction. 👍

Peace and God bless!
 
yeshua said:
Both are excellent, though I am more fond of the dear Chorbishop due to how strong he is against Latinization, and his love for tradition. I just acquired a photocopy of Early Syriac Theology, and I am told it is now being used as an educational text in some diasporic seminaries.

However, neither are official, however much they might be excellent. I know Abouna Salim’s book is now out of print, though I have no reason why. I finally obtained a copy and could see that many Latinized Maronites would take issue with it in regards to purgatory and the IC, amongst other things. Soon I am going to pour through the religious education series, I will certainly relay my opinions of them if desired.

Peace and God Bless.
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I would like to see your thoughts on the education series when you go through it.
 
Amadeus said:
I will stand corrected but the ***Catechism of the Catholic Church ***is THE catechism for the entire Catholic Church. It is not a catechism solely for the Latin Church.

Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris may come up with their own particular catechism, which is being encouraged by Rome, but such catechisms must be approved (by Rome) before they become official.

The goal being that the particular catechisms must be complementary to each other and to the universal CCC. Thus, contradictions are avoided.
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As Ghosty mentioned, the CCC is not a universal catechsim. Rome recognizes this. The catechisms of each church do not have to be approved by Rome either. Rome is not the judge of eastern tradition or theology.
 
Ghosty said:
I dunno if your understanding matches up with that of Rome. Pope John Paul II said in the introduction of the CCC:

The CCC is an assisting tool for local Catechisms, not the universal replacement to which local Catechisms may or may not be added. It has a decidedly Latin approach, though it tries harder than previous catechisms to be mindful in expressing things in a more universal manner. Any Catholic is welcome to use the CCC (I personally LOVE it), but it’s not the end-all and be-all of Catechisms. It is an effort by Rome to initiate a catechetical renewal in the Church, and it expresses the Faith in a mostly Latin manner in order to do so.

To write a Catechism that could touch on all the Catholic theological approaches, even the different ones WITHIN the Latin tradition, and still remain accessible to even the moderately educated would be a nearly impossible task, IMO. Better to stick with a multiplicity of local catechisms, while maintaining an intention of unity in Faith, and that’s precisely what the stated goal of the CCC is, namely to get the ball rolling in that direction. 👍

Peace and God bless!
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Ah, the confusion over the Catechism of the Catholic Church…I guess it depends how you define “Catholic” 😉

I’m not sure many eople understand the lace of the CCC…it doesn’t necessarily contradict my faith, but it does not always compliment it…🤷

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Hello,
jimmy said:
He has had a few books. He wrote one called Early Syriac Theology with reference to the Maronite tradition. It is very good but it is not in print. I got it from the library at school. I wish I could get a copy of it.

He also wrote one called Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality: The Syriac Tradition. I got this one from Amazon.com. It is probably still in print.
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So the Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality: The Syriac Tradition is the one being referenced in this thread? I did see it on the Saint Maron’s Publications website, but its currently out of stock.

Seems all the good stuff is out of stock - like the Cedars of Lebanon Hymnal (at least my diocesan library has a copy).
 
JMJ_coder said:
Hello,

So the Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality: The Syriac Tradition is the one being referenced in this thread? I did see it on the Saint Maron’s Publications website, but its currently out of stock.

Seems all the good stuff is out of stock - like the Cedars of Lebanon Hymnal (at least my diocesan library has a copy).
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You can get it at this link.

amazon.com/Introduction-Eastern-Christian-Spirituality-Tradition/dp/0940866129/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196395398&sr=1-1

That one along with Early Syriac Theology. Early Syriac Theology is more along the lines of what this thread would speak of. It goes through various aspects of theology like God, creation, the incarnation, the sacraments and etc and explains them from a Maronite perspective. Unfortunately this one is out of print. The Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality explains the spirituality of various Syrian saints from St. Ephrem to St. Isaac of Nineveh. Each chapter deals with a specific saint. There is also one that is a commentary on the liturgy but that might be out of print as well. Amazon.com also has a digital article written by Chorbishop Beggiani about Sacramental theology.
 
Dear brother Alexius,
Alexius said:
Ah, the confusion over the Catechism of the Catholic Church…I guess it depends how you define “Catholic” 😉

I’m not sure many eople understand the lace of the CCC…it doesn’t necessarily contradict my faith, but it does not always compliment it…🤷
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What is the “lace of the CCC”?

Blessings
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Alexius,

What is the “lace of the CCC”?

Blessings
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Sorry for the confusion! It should be “place” not “lace” and “people” not “eople…” I think the ‘p’ on my computer was stuck or something…😉
 
I did not say that the CCC should replace local catechisms.
Rather, the CCC is the reference point for all local/particular catechisms, by which the latter cannot contradict the former.

The paragraph Ghosty quoted in abrreviated form is as follows in full:
This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic See. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine.
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How can the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine be preserved without the approbation of Rome vis-a-vis local catechisms before they become official?

Pope John Paul II also said:
The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See: the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus’ disciples (cf. Lk 22:32 as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith. Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. I Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes. The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See: the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus’ disciples (cf. Lk 22:32 as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith. Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. **This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. **It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. I Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.
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Emphasis mine.

The CCC is the universal or general catechism of the Catholic Church. All local/particular catechisms must not be contradictory.

It was published by Pope John Paul II, in his capacity as Supreme Pontiff, under the Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum on 11 October 1992
 
Amadeus said:
This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms.
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How did you go from it may be used as a reference text to it must be used as a conclusive text?
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Woodstock said:
How did you go from it may be used as a reference text to it must be used as a conclusive text?
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I did not say the the CCC texts are conclusive for it allows adaptations for local/particular use.

However, such adaptations (local catechisms) must not be contradictory to the CCC, being the reference point.

The CCC and the various local catechisms that are now extant and those to be issued in the future must be complementary.
 
Amadeus said:
I did not say the the CCC texts are conclusive for it allows adaptations for local/particular use.

However, such adaptations (local catechisms) must not be contradictory to the CCC, being the reference point.

The CCC and the various local catechisms that are now extant and those to be issued in the future must be complementary.
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No one is saying that the local catechisms can contradict the CCC, merely that the CCC isn’t a “good catechism” for all traditions, and doesn’t address the heart of most of them. It serves as a reference point certainly, but that is a far cry from it being the definitive, end-all Catechism.

All Catholic catechisms must be complementary if we share the same Catholic Faith; that much is a given. That the CCC is Rome’s official foray into making a Catholic Catechism also can’t be denied, but that doesn’t make it THE Catechism for all Catholics. It can only represent the Latin approach to the Faith, and while that approach is 100% orthodox, and no catechisms can contradict it, that doesn’t mean that it can possibly fulfill the needs of the Catholic Church on its own. No single work could do that, as even the CCC doesn’t represent the full breadth of even the Latin tradition and couldn’t possibly do so without being a MUCH larger work.

Catechisms are distillations of the Faith based ona particular perspective almost by definition. No one Catechism can exhaust the full range of authentic and orthodox Catholic perspectives.

As Alexius put it quite wonderfully, the CCC doesn’t contradict what his tradition, but it doesn’t necessarily complement it well. I think that’s an important thing to remember at all times when discussing the CCC. 🙂

Peace and God bless!
 
THe pope might have meant it to be universal, but it is not if it does not represent Syriac and Greek theology, which it doesn’t. It represents latin Christianity and it therefore a latin Catholic catechism. Our theology is not subject to latin theology. We will not adjust our theology to conform to that of the latins. All churches and theologies are equal. The eastern churches don’t recognize it as their catechism.
 
Hello,
jimmy said:
THe pope might have meant it to be universal, but it is not if it does not represent Syriac and Greek theology, which it doesn’t. It represents latin Christianity and it therefore a latin Catholic catechism. Our theology is not subject to latin theology. We will not adjust our theology to conform to that of the latins. All churches and theologies are equal. The eastern churches don’t recognize it as their catechism.
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I think the main thing is that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is meant to be a model for local Churches (of all rites) to create their own. And the primary model is that of the structure - which happens to be systematic. That is what the Byzantine Catholics did with the Light and Life series (as far as I know).

And thanks for the direction on the book titles. I’ll try and find a copy that is a little more affordable for me (hopefully!).
 
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