Eastern Cath views/feelings about Novus Ordo

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Can you please go a little more into the epiclesis or lack thereof?
The epiclisis is when the priest calls down the Holy Spirit on the gifts, just before the words of consecration. In the OF, the form depends on the Eucharistic prayer chosen by the priest. One I can remember from memory (please forgive errors) is

…And so Father, we offer you these gifts. (holds hands over the gifts) We ask you to bless them, and make them holy, that they may become for us (makes sign of the cross over the gifts) the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, at who’s command we celebrate this Eucharist. Remember your people throughout the world, etc…

See Epiclesis.

I wasn’t aware that there was ever a Mass without one. I have never been to a Mass without an Epiclesis.

-Tim-
 
The epiclisis is when the priest calls down the Holy Spirit on the gifts, just before the words of consecration. In the OF, the form depends on the Eucharistic prayer chosen by the priest. One I can remember from memory (please forgive errors) is

…And so Father, we offer you these gifts. (holds hands over the gifts) We ask you to bless them, and make them holy, that they may become for us (makes sign of the cross over the gifts) the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, at who’s command we celebrate this Eucharist. Remember your people throughout the world, etc…

See Epiclesis.

I wasn’t aware that there was ever a Mass without one. I have never been to a Mass without an Epiclesis.

-Tim-
Doesn’t he also say something like "Send your Spirit down upon these gifts like the dew fall, so they can become the Body, and Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At the time he was betrayed, he entered willingly into his passion… etc etc…

Excuse the errors.
 
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James924:
I’m curious how Eastern Catholics feel about the Novus Ordo, specifically if you’ve been to a typical one. What did you think?

Eastern Orthodox opinions welcome too, if you’ve attended a Novus Ordo.
 
Doesn’t he also say something like "Send your Spirit down upon these gifts like the dew fall, so they can become the Body, and Blood, of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At the time he was betrayed, he entered willingly into his passion… etc etc…

Excuse the errors.
The new translation Eucharistic Prayer II
Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
At the time he was betrayed and entered willingly into his Passion…:
 
I could be totally wrong. It seems though that the instance I am remembering they actually said it was a Tridentine Latin Mass. Then again, I’m not Roman Catholic so a highly traditionalized OF Mass could seem the same to me. I have to agree with others here that a well done OF Mass can be very beautiful. My comment on the Novus Ordo being unreverent was aimed at what I’ve experienced in person.
The OF of the Mass can be celebrated ad orientem but that is I think rare, and on EWTN daily Mass the priest celebrates facing the people, typically with the propers in Latin. So, most of the time if you see the priest facing the people you can know it is the OF of the Mass. Another easy way of knowing if it’s the EF is that the priests prayers at the altar are not audible to the people in the EF, In the OF of the Mass most of what the priest prays is audible. There are many other differences of course. 🙂 You certainly might have seen an EF of the Mass on EWTN but if so that was very unusual.
 
Can you please go a little more into the epiclesis or lack thereof?
The epiclesis is a part of Eastern anaphoras where the Holy Spirit is invoked upon the gifts that it might transform them. As an example Here is the epiclesis from the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (I’m going to put all of these prayers in red just to make this post a bit easier to parse out):

Priest: Again we offer to Thee this noetic and unbloody sacrifice; and we beg Thee, we ask Thee, we pray Thee: Send down Thy Holy Spirit upon us and upon these Gifts set forth.

Deacon pointing with his orarion to the diskos: Bless, Master, the Holy Bread.

Priest: Make this bread the Precious Body of Thy Christ,

Deacon pointing to the chalice: Amen. Bless, Master, the Holy Cup.

Priest: And that which is in this Cup, the Precious Blood of Thy Christ,

Deacon pointing to both: Amen. Bless them both, Master.

Priest: Changing by Thy Holy Spirit.

Deacon: Amen, Amen, Amen.
This sort of invocation of the Holy Spirit is what is known as an explicit epiclesis (because there is an explicit mention of the Holy Spirit).

The Roman Canon, which is exclusively used in the EF of the mass, and is also used as Eucharistic Prayer I of the OF of the Mass contains no explicit epiclesis. Instead, one of the prayers is seen to be an implicit epiclesis. This prayer would be the ‘Quam oblationem.’

Quam oblationem tu, Deus, in omnibus, quaesumus, benedictam, adscriptam, ratam, rationabilem, acceptabilemque facere digneris: ut nobis Corpus et Sanguis fiat dilectissimi Filii tui, Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

Bless and approve our offering; make it acceptable to you, an offering in spirit and in truth. Let it become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.

(A more literal translation from the Latin reads: Which offering do thou, O God, vouchsafe in all things. To bless, consecrate, approve, make reasonable and acceptable: that it may become for us the Body and Blood of thy most beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ.)
Notice that it does not make mention of the Holy Spirit. The prayer then, is said to implicitly invoke the Holy Spirit to consecrate the gifts (“Bless and approve our offering”), even if it makes no specific mention of the Holy Spirit. Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV from the OF of the mass, however, have prayers which seem to be more closely modeled after the explicit style of epiclesis used in Eastern liturgies:

Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer II:

Haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica, ut nobis Corpus et Sanguis fiant Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

Let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy, so that they may become for us the body and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer III:

Supplices ergo te, Domine, deprecamur, ut haec munera, quae tibi sacranda detulimus, eodem Spiritu sanctificare digneris, ut Corpus et Sanguis fiant Filii tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, cuius mandato haec mysteria celebramus.

And so, Father, we bring you these gifts. We ask you to make them holy by the power of your Spirit, that they may become the body and blood of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at whose command we celebrate this Eucharist.
Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer IV:

Quaesumus igitur, Domine, ut idem Spiritus Sanctus haec munera sanctificare dignetur, ut Corpus et Sanguis fiant Domini nostri Iesu Christi

Father, may this Holy Spirit sanctify these offerings. Let them become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord
Notice how all of these prayers explicitly mention the Holy Spirit. From the Eastern perspective at least, the presence of an explicit epiclesis in Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV from the OF of the mass is an improvement over the old Roman Canon/Eucharistic Prayer I. I’m personally not too sure if I buy the idea that the Roman Canon is somehow deficient because of its lack of an explicit epiclesis (it was fine before the schism, after all), but I do know many Orthodox Christians who do.
 
The epiclesis is a part of Eastern anaphoras where the Holy Spirit is invoked upon the gifts that it might transform them. As an example Here is the epiclesis from the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (I’m going to put all of these prayers in red just to make this post a bit easier to parse out):

Priest: Again we offer to Thee this noetic and unbloody sacrifice; and we beg Thee, we ask Thee, we pray Thee: Send down Thy Holy Spirit upon us and upon these Gifts set forth.

Deacon pointing with his orarion to the diskos: Bless, Master, the Holy Bread.

Priest: Make this bread the Precious Body of Thy Christ,

Deacon pointing to the chalice: Amen. Bless, Master, the Holy Cup.

Priest: And that which is in this Cup, the Precious Blood of Thy Christ,

Deacon pointing to both: Amen. Bless them both, Master.

Priest: Changing by Thy Holy Spirit.

Deacon: Amen, Amen, Amen.
This sort of invocation of the Holy Spirit is what is known as an explicit epiclesis (because there is an explicit mention of the Holy Spirit).

The Roman Canon, which is exclusively used in the EF of the mass, and is also used as Eucharistic Prayer I of the OF of the Mass contains no explicit epiclesis. Instead, one of the prayers is seen to be an implicit epiclesis. This prayer would be the ‘Quam oblationem.’

Quam oblationem tu, Deus, in omnibus, quaesumus, benedictam, adscriptam, ratam, rationabilem, acceptabilemque facere digneris: ut nobis Corpus et Sanguis fiat dilectissimi Filii tui, Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

Bless and approve our offering; make it acceptable to you, an offering in spirit and in truth. Let it become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.

(A more literal translation from the Latin reads: Which offering do thou, O God, vouchsafe in all things. To bless, consecrate, approve, make reasonable and acceptable: that it may become for us the Body and Blood of thy most beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ.)
Notice that it does not make mention of the Holy Spirit. The prayer then, is said to implicitly invoke the Holy Spirit to consecrate the gifts (“Bless and approve our offering”), even if it makes no specific mention of the Holy Spirit. Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV from the OF of the mass, however, have prayers which seem to be more closely modeled after the explicit style of epiclesis used in Eastern liturgies:

Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer II:

Haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica, ut nobis Corpus et Sanguis fiant Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

Let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy, so that they may become for us the body and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer III:

Supplices ergo te, Domine, deprecamur, ut haec munera, quae tibi sacranda detulimus, eodem Spiritu sanctificare digneris, ut Corpus et Sanguis fiant Filii tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, cuius mandato haec mysteria celebramus.

And so, Father, we bring you these gifts. We ask you to make them holy by the power of your Spirit, that they may become the body and blood of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at whose command we celebrate this Eucharist.
Epiclesis from Eucharistic Prayer IV:

Quaesumus igitur, Domine, ut idem Spiritus Sanctus haec munera sanctificare dignetur, ut Corpus et Sanguis fiant Domini nostri Iesu Christi

Father, may this Holy Spirit sanctify these offerings. Let them become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord
Notice how all of these prayers explicitly mention the Holy Spirit. From the Eastern perspective at least, the presence of an explicit epiclesis in Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV from the OF of the mass is an improvement over the old Roman Canon/Eucharistic Prayer I. I’m personally not too sure if I buy the idea that the Roman Canon is somehow deficient because of its lack of an explicit epiclesis (it was fine before the schism, after all), but I do know many Orthodox Christians who do.
Thank you. That makes it quite clear!

Thanks Timothy as well.
 
Notice how all of these prayers explicitly mention the Holy Spirit. From the Eastern perspective at least, the presence of an explicit epiclesis in Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV from the OF of the mass is an improvement over the old Roman Canon/Eucharistic Prayer I.
In the EF, the Sanctifier is invoked outside the Canon.
*Veni, sanctificator omnipotens æterne Deus: *
Come, Sanctifier almighty eternal God:
et benedic hoc sacrificium, tuo sancto nomini preparatum.
and bless this sacrifice, to Your holy name prepared.
 
If its done reverently, then I like it.

We have all suffered through the banjos/bongos of some modern novus ordo Masses.
 
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