Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Liturgies

[Pope_Noah_I]

Are there any major differences besides language?

 

[Harpazo]

I don’t think so. Other than the fact that some (not all) Eastern Catholic Churches include the Filioque and recognize the Pope of Rome in their diptychs, there are no other differences.

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew

 

[Patchunky]

I don’t think so. Other than the fact that some (not all) Eastern Catholic Churches include the Filioque and recognize the Pope of Rome in their diptychs, there are no other differences.

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew

Actually, there are a few things that are done in some Orthodox churches that are not done in some Byzantine Catholic churches.

For example, in many Orthodox churches, after receiving Holy Communion, the faithful will partake of the Antedor, blessed bread and wine, as they return to their places. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.

During the Divine Liturgy, many Orthodox Churches will sing the Beatitudes. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.

There are some other things, minor things but some differences…

 

[Harpazo]

Actually, there are a few things that are done in some Orthodox churches that are not done in some Byzantine Catholic churches.

For example, in many Orthodox churches, after receiving Holy Communion, the faithful will partake of the Antedor, blessed bread and wine, as they return to their places. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.

During the Divine Liturgy, many Orthodox Churches will sing the Beatitudes. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.

There are some other things, minor things but some differences…

Interesting. My pastor (Maronite) said that they used to have the antidoron, but now it’s fallen into disuse. He also said that if someone ever made a loaf, he would bless it and distribute it.

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew

 

[Formosus]

Actually, there are a few things that are done in some Orthodox churches that are not done in some Byzantine Catholic churches.

For example, in many Orthodox churches, after receiving Holy Communion, the faithful will partake of the** Antedor, blessed bread and wine, as they return to their places. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.**

During the Divine Liturgy, many Orthodox Churches will sing the Beatitudes. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.
There are some other things, minor things but some differences…

Point one.
The Ukranian Catholic mission I attend in Charlotte does to distribute blessed bread. I have never seen an Orthodox church distribute blessed wine and I have been to Greek Orthodox and Bulgarian Orthodox churches and even an Oriental Orthodox Church (Armenian). None of those distributed blessed wine. The Ruthenian Catholic parish I went to once did so as well.

Likewise St. Basil’s in Charlotte, NC (Ukranian) does this as well. I do not remember if the Ruthenian church I attended did or did not. It would seem you have just attended latinized churches.

 

[Patchunky]

Point one.
The Ukranian Catholic mission I attend in Charlotte does to distribute blessed bread. I have never seen an Orthodox church distribute blessed wine and I have been to Greek Orthodox and Bulgarian Orthodox churches and even an Oriental Orthodox Church (Armenian). None of those distributed blessed wine. The Ruthenian Catholic parish I went to once did so as well.

Likewise St. Basil’s in Charlotte, NC (Ukranian) does this as well. I do not remember if the Ruthenian church I attended did or did not. It would seem you have just attended latinized churches.

Please don’t confuse Aatador with the Mirovanije which given after special feasts. In the Ruthenian Rite and Ukrainian Rite, yesterday was Rusadle and there should have been mirovanije.

This ditribution of the Antador is not part of the Ruthenian Rencension. If you attended a parish where this was done, chances are the priest was a bi-ritual pirest who is copying this custom from the Orthodox. It is NOT done here in the US nor in the “homelands” in Europe.

 

[Formosus]

Being that I do not speak a slavic langage. Could you explain those words in your last post?

I could be wrong on the ruthenian one, but I do know that the Ukranian catholic mission I attend distributes blessed bread after Divine Liturgy and sings the beatitudes. It is under the Eparchy of St. Josephat if that is of any relevance.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I have never seen an Orthodox church distribute blessed wine and I have been to Greek Orthodox and Bulgarian Orthodox churches and even an Oriental Orthodox Church (Armenian). None of those distributed blessed wine.*

The distribution of bread AND wine after communion–called “zapivka” or “warmth”–is more a Russian custom.

 

[Hesychios]

Please don’t confuse Aatador with the Mirovanije which given after special feasts. In the Ruthenian Rite and Ukrainian Rite, yesterday was Rusadle and there should have been mirovanije.

Is that what it’s called? I never knew that.

My experience with the Ruthenians was a blessed bread distributed after liturgy.

With the OCA (Russian tradition parishes) the blessed bread and wine (Zapivka, as BpBasil has pointed out) were available at every liturgy immediately after receiving communion.

This ditribution of the Antador is not part of the Ruthenian Rencension. If you attended a parish where this was done, chances are the priest was a bi-ritual pirest who is copying this custom from the Orthodox. It is NOT done here in the US nor in the “homelands” in Europe.

You have always been a fount of information, thanks.

 

[Patchunky]

Being that I do not speak a slavic langage. Could you explain those words in your last post?

Rusadle is the Feast of Pentecost, also know as Zelenje Nedelu or Green Sunday because of the fresh greens that are used to decorate the doors, windows and ikonostas.

Mirovanije is the custom of annointing each worshiper with holy oil and giving blessed bread following a major feast.

Hope this helps…

 

[Patchunky]

With the OCA (Russian tradition parishes) the blessed bread and wine (Zapivka, as BpBasil has pointed out) were available at every liturgy immediately after receiving communion.

I was just at the consecration of a new OCA church on Saturday. I helped with the painting of the ikons and have friends who belong to the parish. My friends were in seperate lines for Holy Communion and they both brought me bread dipped in wine since they knew that I would not receive in their church… very thoughtful of them…

 

[Patchunky]

Point one.
The Ukranian Catholic mission I attend in Charlotte does to distribute blessed bread. I have never seen an Orthodox church distribute blessed wine and I have been to Greek Orthodox and Bulgarian Orthodox churches and even an Oriental Orthodox Church (Armenian). None of those distributed blessed wine. The Ruthenian Catholic parish I went to once did so as well.

Likewise St. Basil’s in Charlotte, NC (Ukranian) does this as well. I do not remember if the Ruthenian church I attended did or did not. It would seem you have just attended latinized churches.

If you look here: byzantines.net/liturgy/Liturgy%20Explanation.htm and here: byzantines.net/liturgy/Liturgy%20Explanation.htm

you will see that the chanting of the Beautitudes are not part of the Divine Liturgy for the Ukrainians or the Ruthenians.

 

[patrick457]

Are there any major differences besides language?

Simple answer: Yes.

Some differences between Greek and Russian Divine Services and their significance

To quote an excerpt:

…The same can be said about one of the first phrases of the Eucharistic Canon. It is read differently, at least in our time, by the Greeks and the Russians: ‘Elaion eirēnēs, thusian aineseōs’, which means “Oil of peace, sacrifice of praise” (in Greek) and “Mercy of peace, sacrifice of praise” (in Russian). It is obvious that this is the result of orthographic confusion that occurred in Greek manuscripts between the two words, which in Byzantine Greek, although written differently, were pronounced identically (although with different endings: elaion - oil and eleos - mercy). Similar confusions, called “iotacisms,” occur very frequently. It is almost a certainty that the form elaion (oil) is the original and primary one, while eleos (mercy) is erroneous or more likely, a willful new introduction by a copyist who wanted to “enhance” the text. Here we see a classical example of the evolution of a literal Biblical text into a symbolic and a spiritualized one. This is the most unlikely case of a “reversed” evolution – from a simple to a complex. Russian copyists and liturgists preferred the spiritualized form (mercy and not oil) and adapted it to the Slavonic Liturgy. However, it would be a mistake to think that it is precisely the Slavonic copyists to whom the “honor” of such “enhancement” belongs. This first occurred among the Greeks, and the witness to this is that Nicholas Cabasilas is well aware of this in his “A Commentary on the Divine Liturgy” (14th century). Although he does not literally cite this passage but paraphrases it, his paraphrase shows that he reads it as “mercy” and not “oil.” This becomes more evident in the following passage: “We offer mercy,” Cabasilas says, “to Him Who said: I will have mercy and not sacrifice… We also offer the sacrifice of praise” (P.G. 150, 396 AB)…

 

[Formosus]

If you look here: byzantines.net/liturgy/Liturgy%20Explanation.htm and here: byzantines.net/liturgy/Liturgy%20Explanation.htm

you will see that the chanting of the Beautitudes are not part of the Divine Liturgy for the Ukrainians or the Ruthenians.

I have been told that Eparch Robert of the UGCC does things a bit differently then other Eparchys so perhaps this accounts for that difference. I know that his territory uses chant settings written by him and a translation of the Divine Liturgy that he commisioned. All I know is that the Ukranian Catholic mission I go to in Charlotte has the chanting of the beatitudes.

 

[Ak_Fossil]

I am surprised that up to now, no one has stepped up and said that the Beatitudes within a Ruthenian parish----ARE USED.
Within the Pew Book, used for Divine Liturgies, in the 4 Eparchies of the USA of Byzantine Catholics (Ruthenians), the First and Second Typical Psalms and Beatitudes are used during Great Fast(Lent); instead of the First and Second Antiphon and Third Antiphon.

 

[Patchunky]

I am surprised that up to now, no one has stepped up and said that the Beatitudes within a Ruthenian parish----ARE USED.
Within the Pew Book, used for Divine Liturgies, in the 4 Eparchies of the USA of Byzantine Catholics (Ruthenians), the First and Second Typical Psalms and Beatitudes are used during Great Fast(Lent); instead of the First and Second Antiphon and Third Antiphon.

They were NOT used in Passaic or Munhall/Pittsburgh Eparchies this past Great Lent. I am in the Passaic Eparchy and visited relatives who live in the Munhall/Pittsburgh Eparchy and they did not use the Beautitudes…

Sorry to disagree…

 

[Ak_Fossil]

Well if the Passaic and Arch Eparchy of Pittsburg don’t want to follow what is written in their directions, and follow what is in print for the Pew Book, then that is their problem. I did them the whole Great Fast, and I use the Beatitudes on page 23 of the pew book, as Incessational, Communion, and Recessional Hymns.

What is the hymn in the book for if its not to be used?

 

[SVP]

They were NOT used in Passaic or Munhall/Pittsburgh Eparchies this past Great Lent. I am in the Passaic Eparchy and visited relatives who live in the Munhall/Pittsburgh Eparchy and they did not use the Beautitudes…

Sorry to disagree…

Then move farther West to the Van Nuys Eparchy where they definitely were used this past Lent!

 

[bpbasilphx]

During the Divine Liturgy, many Orthodox Churches will sing the Beatitudes. This is not done in the Ruthenian Rite nor in the Ukrainian Rite.

**The use of the Beatitudes is mostly (though not exclusively) a Great Russian practice.

They appear in both Ukrainian and English in the bi-lingual edition of the Ukrainian Catholic Church. I know a church that does them.**

 

[bpbasilphx]

To Beaitude or not to Beatitude…

Seriously, the classical Greek and Slavonic altar books say something to this effect: “And the Choir sings the First (or Second or Third) Antiphon,” but no text is given.

Which antiphons? Whether it’s the Sunday, Weekday, or Festal Antiphons, or Typical Psalms (102, 145, Beatitudes) depends on the received use and how the Typicon is interpreted. I wish I could be more specific than this.