Eastern Catholic papabili

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Crescentinus

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Disclaimer: I’m sorry if I had posted this in the wrong subforum.

I have a couple of questions.
  1. Who do you guys think are the Eastern Catholic papabili?
  2. Suppose an Eastern Catholic patriarch gets elected. What does it mean?
    Papabili - the plural form of the word papabile
    Papabile - a term used to describe Catholic cardinals (and patriarchs) who is thought a likely or possible candidate to be elected pope. A literal English translation would be “pope-able” or “one who might become pope”.
 
The Bishop of the See of Rome should be a Roman Catholic. Should we make a Roman Catholic Bishop of Antioch?
 
UncleBill said:
The Bishop of the See of Rome should be a Roman Catholic. Should we make a Roman Catholic Bishop of Antioch?
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Some eastern bishops are part of the college of cardinals. Don’t cardinals become part of the Roman diocese by being granted a titular church in Rome? If so, these eastern bishops would also in a sense be Roman. I’m not a canon lawyer, but believe this applies at least to western bishops who are created cardinal, and don’t see why it should not also apply to cardinals from the east.

Regardless, Catholics can change rites and some priests are granted bi-ritual faculties, meaning they can celebrate in both the Roman and e.g. Byzantine rites. While I agree the pope should principally celebrate in the Roman rite as his See is Roman, I don’t see why he could not be chosen from among the eastern bishops. His election to the papacy would imply the acquisition of bi-ritual faculties and/or him changing rites.

Perhaps someone more versed in canon law could confirm or denounce this?
 
Anthony86 said:
Some eastern bishops are part of the college of cardinals. Don’t cardinals become part of the Roman diocese by being granted a titular church in Rome? If so, these eastern bishops would also in a sense be Roman. I’m not a canon lawyer, but believe this applies at least to western bishops who are created cardinal, and don’t see why it should not also apply to cardinals from the east.
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The so-called “titular sees” (i.e. the suburban Sees of Rome) do not apply to Patriarchs who are given a red hat by Rome. They are Cardinal-Bishops in their own right. Now, those Orientals who are not formally Patriarchs and who are given a red hat by Rome (e.g. the Syro-Malankara Catholicos and the Syro-Malabar Major-Archbishop) are Cardinal-Priests and do have titular churches in Rome.
Anthony86 said:
Regardless, Catholics can change rites and some priests are granted bi-ritual faculties, meaning they can celebrate in both the Roman and e.g. Byzantine rites. While I agree the pope should principally celebrate in the Roman rite as his See is Roman, I don’t see why he could not be chosen from among the eastern bishops. His election to the papacy would imply the acquisition of bi-ritual faculties and/or him changing rites.

Perhaps someone more versed in canon law could confirm or denounce this?
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Any bishop (actually any celibate male but let’s leave that aside for the purpose of this post) could, in theory, be elected. In practical terms, though, that’s not going to happen. It’s 99.999% sure that the successor to Benedict XVI will come from among the College of Cardinals.

FYI, the Bishop of Rome is always counted as being omni-ritual, that is, he may celebrate according to any rite he so chooses. While it has happened that a Pope celebrates according to other than the Roman Rite, it is still a rarity.
 
It seems possible that pretty much any male, given the right dispositions, (or possibly any baptized male) can be elected Pope.

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/who-can-be-elected-pope/

I imagine if an Eastern bishop were elected Pope, Eastern Catholicism would become more widely known and understood by us Westerners and the public at large. (Well, so far as the public at large is concerned, and given the public at large’s understanding of Catholicism, perhaps more widely known and more widely misunderstood). Perhaps some of the (usually accidental) bias in favor of the Western approach to most things will be dispelled, as an Eastern pope would actually notice if it were to happen.

I do think that such a pope would probably primarily use the Western liturgy, as the bishop of a Rome, but I could see him using the Eastern occasionally, and I think that would be a good thing, simply because that’s also a beautiful liturgy and too many people are completely unaware of it.

I imagine other than that, there wouldn’t be an awful lot of change. I am curious how the Orthodox would react to it though, I could see both annoyance and approval, or possibly a mixture of both and/or not really caring all that much.

As for who it could be, dunno. Don’t even really know the western “candidates” that well.
 
Thanks for that, malphono.
Iron Donkey:
I imagine if an Eastern bishop were elected Pope, Eastern Catholicism would become more widely known and understood by us Westerners
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Agreed. It would be good for the Latin church to rediscover the eastern aspects of Holy Tradition. The Holy Spirit does not necessarily need an eastern pope for that, however.
 
Anthony86 said:
While I agree the pope should principally celebrate in the Roman rite as his See is Roman, I don’t see why he could not be chosen from among the eastern bishops.
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There are differing view on that (as can be seen from this and other threads). But anyhow, only about 2% of Catholics are Eastern Catholics, so even if we assume a simple proportionality (just for the sake of argument), we would still only expect about 1 out of every 50 popes to be Eastern.
 
Anthony86 said:
Some eastern bishops are part of the college of cardinals. Don’t cardinals become part of the Roman diocese by being granted a titular church in Rome? If so, these eastern bishops would also in a sense be Roman. I’m not a canon lawyer, but believe this applies at least to western bishops who are created cardinal, and don’t see why it should not also apply to cardinals from the east.

Regardless, Catholics can change rites and some priests are granted bi-ritual faculties, meaning they can celebrate in both the Roman and e.g. Byzantine rites. While I agree the pope should principally celebrate in the Roman rite as his See is Roman, I don’t see why he could not be chosen from among the eastern bishops. His election to the papacy would imply the acquisition of bi-ritual faculties and/or him changing rites.

Perhaps someone more versed in canon law could confirm or denounce this?
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There is also adaptation of rite, which allows being part of the ritual, theological, spiritual, and disciplinary patrimony of another Church while being still ascribed to his own. This can be granted when an eastern clergy is incardinated into a Latin diocese.

The eastern cardinals remain enrolled in their ritual church. There are eastern bishops that are cardinal-priests of a church in Rome.
  • HBE. Patriarch Emeritus Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, Cardinal-Priest of S. Sofia a Via Boccea
  • HBE. Major Archbishop Cardinal Lucian Muresan, Cardinal-Priest of S.Atanasio
  • HBE. Major Archbishop Cardinal George Alencherry, Cardinal-Priest of S. Bernardo alle Term
  • HBE. Major Archbishop Cardinal Baselios Cleemis Thottunkal, Cardinal-Priest of S. Gregorio VII
The Pope is:
  • Bishop of Rome,
  • Vicar of Jesus Christ,
  • Successor of the Prince of the Apostles,
  • Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church,
  • Primate of Italy,
  • Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman province,
  • Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City,
  • Servant of the Servants of God
 
Crescentinus said:
Disclaimer: I’m sorry if I had posted this in the wrong subforum.

I have a couple of questions.
  1. Who do you guys think are the Eastern Catholic papabili?
  2. Suppose an Eastern Catholic patriarch gets elected. What does it mean?
    Papabili - the plural form of the word papabile
    Papabile - a term used to describe Catholic cardinals (and patriarchs) who is thought a likely or possible candidate to be elected pope. A literal English translation would be “pope-able” or “one who might become pope”.
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Would be nice but there don’t seem to be many Eastern contenders this time around.

The last time one was a serious contender was Agagianian in the conclave that elected Roncalli. I’ve studied the Conclaves since then and there don’t seem to have been any who had traction. It’s rare, because there just aren’t that many Eastern Catholic Cardinals to begin with. It would be nice if there were more Eastern Catholics in the world, making there be more Eastern Catholic clergy and thus more Eastern Catholic Cardinals. But we’re just not there yet.

One wonders what the ramifications would be in relations with the Orthodox. Benedict XVI and John Paul II (and yes, John Paul I and Paul VI) gave a lot of attention to ecumenism and reunion with the Orthodox. An Eastern Catholic being elected Pope could damage the relations with Moscow. Might be different with other Orthodox Churches. I think it would be healthy for the relations with the Romanian Orthodox, but not sure how it would be with the other ones, especially the Constantinople one. But that’s just my guess. I’m sure there are others here who know that better than me.
 
Vico said:
  • HBE. Patriarch Emeritus Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, Cardinal-Priest of S. Sofia a Via Boccea
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Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Eastern Patriarchs don’t get Titular Churches.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Eastern Patriarchs don’t get Titular Churches.
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This Major Archbishop does and there is a tradition of it. He was made Cardinal-Priest of S. Sofia a Via Boccea in 2001 and the prior one to hold the titular was Ukrainian Catholic Major Archbishop Myroslav Ivan Lubachivsky. The church was built in 1967 on order of Ukrainian Catholic Metropolitan Cardinal Josyf Slipyj and looks like a church in Kiev. It is Byzantine rite.
 
Vico said:
This Major Archbishop does and there is a tradition of it. He was made Cardinal-Priest of S. Sofia a Via Boccea in 2001 and the prior one to hold the titular was Ukrainian Catholic Major Archbishop Myroslav Ivan Lubachivsky. The church was built in 1967 on order of Ukrainian Catholic Metropolitan Cardinal Josyf Slipyj and looks like a church in Kiev. It is Byzantine rite.
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Oh, he’s a Major Archbishop, not a Patriarch. Now I get it. I think you mis-typed it in the previous post, where it lists him as a Patriarch Emeritus. Typos happen. 😉
 
PazzoGrande said:
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Eastern Patriarchs don’t get Titular Churches.
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HB is technically a Major Archbishop, not a patriarch. And does get a titular church. His faithful refer to him as a Patriarch. As does almost everyone else. But he’s “only” a major archbishop. And having retired, is major archbishop emeritus of Kyiv.

Even patriarchs get a titular church - but its their home see. Each of the Patriarchal sees is also a cardinalate see… held by the cardinal patriarch for life. The emeritus retains the cardinalate titlular see until death, then the current Patriarch gets it, being promoted from a cardinal bishop see to a his patriarchal see.
 
Aramis said:
HB is technically a Major Archbishop, not a patriarch. And does get a titular church. His faithful refer to him as a Patriarch. As does almost everyone else. But he’s “only” a major archbishop. And having retired, is major archbishop emeritus of Kyiv.

Even patriarchs get a titular church - but its their home see. Each of the Patriarchal sees is also a cardinalate see… held by the cardinal patriarch for life. The emeritus retains the cardinalate titlular see until death, then the current Patriarch gets it, being promoted from a cardinal bishop see to a his patriarchal see.
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Oh yes now I remember, this is the See where they wanted to make him a Patriarch, but Paul VI was afraid it would cause problems with the Orthodox, so they created the title Major Archbishop?
 
Seeing the news, I’ve seen coverage about Latin papabili (like Cardinal Turkson). I’m wondering if someone like Major Archbishop Cleemis or Patriarch Rai are seen as papabili. o:
 
Crescentinus said:
Seeing the news, I’ve seen coverage about Latin papabili (like Cardinal Turkson). I’m wondering if someone like Major Archbishop Cleemis or Patriarch Rai are seen as papabili. o:
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Just a question… Why would the head of a sui iuris Church (such as the 22 Eastern Churches) want to leave his position and become the the head of a different sui iuris Church (such as Rome)? 🙂
 
I remember not too long ago when some Eastern Catholics were created Cardinals, there seemed to be some Eastern Catholics here on CAF who were not fond of that happening. I don’t remember the arguments at the time, but I am personally happy to see the Eastern Churches having a voice in the Conclave. Since you have to be a Cardinal to vote in it, it makes sense to me to have Eastern Catholics as Cardinals, at least to some extent.

There is probably something I am missing…

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
I remember not too long ago when some Eastern Catholics were created Cardinals, there seemed to be some Eastern Catholics here on CAF who were not fond of that happening. I don’t remember the arguments at the time, but I am personally happy to see the Eastern Churches having a voice in the Conclave. Since you have to be a Cardinal to vote in it, it makes sense to me to have Eastern Catholics as Cardinals, at least to some extent.

There is probably something I am missing…

Peace,
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Probably problems with Eastern Bishops having titular Roman parishes.
 
Zekariya said:
Probably problems with Eastern Bishops having titular Roman parishes.
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Other complaints I’ve heard from Romans include…
… the universal faculties for confession.
… the “interference in the Roman Church” it supposedly represents
… the “potential confusion to the laity”
 
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