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fordhamstudent
Guest
Have any of you transferred ritual Churches from an Eastern Catholic Church to the Latin Church, if so why, and what was the process for you? Did you have any obstacles from the Latin bishop on the transfer?
Eastern Catholic Ritual Church Transfers to the Latin Church, sui iuris
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Vico
Guest
I know of several transfers in our Byzantine Catholic parish. Many were through marriage. There has been difficulty with the Latin bishop not approving. I was told this was because there have been so many transfers requested.
The process in the Byzantine Catholic Church USA, at least in one eparchy, is to be an active participant in the parish for two years, then a letter of recommendation from the pastor, plus your own request letter, and sacramental records, is submitted to the receiving bishop. The bishop requests approval from the releasing bishop. If the approval is gained, there is a short time to finish the papers which must be witnessed before the transfer is complete.
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StrengthSublime
Guest
The Latin Church is the largest particular church within the Catholic Church. It is a particular church not on the level of the local particular churches known as dioceses or eparchies, but on the level of autonomous ritual churches, of which there are 23, the remaining 22 of which are Eastern Catholic Churches.
The Latin Church developed in the Western Roman Empire (Western Europe and North Africa) where, from classical antiquity to the Renaissance, Latin was the principal language of education and culture. The various Latin liturgical rites that developed in that area also use or have used that language.
The Latin Church developed in the Western Roman Empire (Western Europe and North Africa) where, from classical antiquity to the Renaissance, Latin was the principal language of education and culture. The various Latin liturgical rites that developed in that area also use or have used that language.
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StrengthSublime
Guest
“Church” and “rite”
The 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches defines its use of the words “church” and “rite” as follows:
Church: A group of Christian faithful united by a hierarchy according to the norm of law which the supreme authority of the Church expressly or tacitly recognizes as sui iuris is called in this Code a Church sui iuris.
Rite: A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris.
In accordance with these definitions, the Latin Church is one such group of Christian faithful united by a hierarchy and recognized by the supreme authority of the Catholic Church as an autonomous particular church. The Latin rite is the whole of the patrimony of that distinct particular church, by which it manifests its own manner of living the faith, including its own liturgy, its theology, its spiritual practices and traditions and its canon law.
A person is a member of or belongs to a particular church. A person also inherits or “is of”, a particular patrimony or rite. Since the rite has liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary elements, a person is also to worship, to be catechized, to pray and to be governed according to a particular rite.
“Latin Catholic” and “Roman Catholic”
At times, the Holy See has used the term “Roman Catholic” to refer to the whole Catholic Church, that is in communion with the Bishop and Church of Rome. It has never used the term “Roman Catholic” to refer exclusively to the Latin Church, and one would have to go back more than two and a half centuries to find a papal document that used “Roman” as equivalent to “Latin”. The Holy See quite commonly uses the term “Roman” (again, not “Roman Catholic”) with reference to the diocese of Rome, as in “Holy Roman Church”.
However, some Eastern Catholics use the expression “Roman Catholic” to mean “Latin Catholic”, while others “are proud to call themselves Roman Catholics”, and “Roman Catholic” sometimes appears in the compound name of Eastern Catholic churches and parishes.
The 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches defines its use of the words “church” and “rite” as follows:
Church: A group of Christian faithful united by a hierarchy according to the norm of law which the supreme authority of the Church expressly or tacitly recognizes as sui iuris is called in this Code a Church sui iuris.
Rite: A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris.
In accordance with these definitions, the Latin Church is one such group of Christian faithful united by a hierarchy and recognized by the supreme authority of the Catholic Church as an autonomous particular church. The Latin rite is the whole of the patrimony of that distinct particular church, by which it manifests its own manner of living the faith, including its own liturgy, its theology, its spiritual practices and traditions and its canon law.
A person is a member of or belongs to a particular church. A person also inherits or “is of”, a particular patrimony or rite. Since the rite has liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary elements, a person is also to worship, to be catechized, to pray and to be governed according to a particular rite.
“Latin Catholic” and “Roman Catholic”
At times, the Holy See has used the term “Roman Catholic” to refer to the whole Catholic Church, that is in communion with the Bishop and Church of Rome. It has never used the term “Roman Catholic” to refer exclusively to the Latin Church, and one would have to go back more than two and a half centuries to find a papal document that used “Roman” as equivalent to “Latin”. The Holy See quite commonly uses the term “Roman” (again, not “Roman Catholic”) with reference to the diocese of Rome, as in “Holy Roman Church”.
However, some Eastern Catholics use the expression “Roman Catholic” to mean “Latin Catholic”, while others “are proud to call themselves Roman Catholics”, and “Roman Catholic” sometimes appears in the compound name of Eastern Catholic churches and parishes.
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StrengthSublime
Guest
The then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger spoke on 24 October 1988 of the Latin liturgical rites as follows: “Several forms of the Latin rite have always existed, and were only slowly withdrawn, as a result of the coming together of the different parts of Europe. Before the Council there existed side by side with the Roman rite, the Ambrosian rite, the Mozarabic rite of Toledo, the rite of Braga, the Carthusian rite, the Carmelite rite, and best known of all, the Dominican rite, and perhaps still other rites of which I am not aware”. Today, the most common Latin liturgical rites are the Roman Rite, the Ambrosian Rite, the Mozarabic Rite, and variations of the Roman Rite such as the Anglican Use and the Tridentine extraordinary form of the Roman Rite. The 22 Eastern Catholic Churches share 5 families of liturgical rites: the Alexandrian Rite (shared by 2 churches), the Antiochene or West Syrian Rite (3 churches), the Armenian Rite (1 church), the Byzantine Rite (14 churches), and the Chaldean or East Syrian Rite (2 churches). The Latin liturgical rites, like the Armenian, are used only in a single autonomous particular church.
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theistgal
Guest
I have absolutely no evidence for this - it’s just my personal opinion. 
However, I think it’s more difficult to transfer from an Eastern rite to the Latin rite simply because the Latin rite is already so large, and the Church really wants to encourage more people to join the Eastern rites to provide some balance.
However, I think it’s more difficult to transfer from an Eastern rite to the Latin rite simply because the Latin rite is already so large, and the Church really wants to encourage more people to join the Eastern rites to provide some balance.
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StrengthSublime
Guest
Canon law for the Latin Church was codified in the Code of Canon Law, of which there have been two editions, the first promulgated by Pope Benedict XV in 1917, and the second by Pope John Paul II in 1983. The Eastern Catholic Churches, which each have their own canon law, have in common the canons codified in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches of 1990.
In the Latin Church, the norm for administration of confirmation is that, except when in danger of death, the person to be confirmed should “have the use of reason, be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises”, and “the administration of the Most Holy Eucharist to children requires that they have sufficient knowledge and careful preparation so that they understand the mystery of Christ according to their capacity and are able to receive the body of Christ with faith and devotion.” In the Eastern Churches these sacraments are usually administered immediately after baptism, even for an infant.
Celibacy, as a consequence of the duty to observe perfect continence, is obligatory for priests in the Latin Church. Rare exceptions are permitted for men who, after ministering as clergy in other churches, join the Catholic Church. This contrasts with the discipline in most Eastern Catholic Churches ordination, in which priesthood (but not episcopate) may be conferred on married men. In the Latin Church a married man may not be admitted even to the diaconate unless he is legitimately destined to remain a deacon and not become a priest. As in Eastern Catholic Churches, marriage after their ordination is not allowed. There is also no difference between the churches with regard to those who have take religious vows of celibacy.
Bishops in the Latin Church are appointed by the Pope on the advice of the various dicasteries of the Roman Curia. The synods of Eastern patriarchal and major archiepiscopal Churches elect bishops for their own territory, receiving from the Pope only letters of recognition; although the Pope can in fact veto the decision, this rarely if ever happens. The bishops for other territories and those of lesser Eastern Catholic Churches are appointed in the same way as Latin bishops, on the advice of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches.
In the Latin Church, the norm for administration of confirmation is that, except when in danger of death, the person to be confirmed should “have the use of reason, be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises”, and “the administration of the Most Holy Eucharist to children requires that they have sufficient knowledge and careful preparation so that they understand the mystery of Christ according to their capacity and are able to receive the body of Christ with faith and devotion.” In the Eastern Churches these sacraments are usually administered immediately after baptism, even for an infant.
Celibacy, as a consequence of the duty to observe perfect continence, is obligatory for priests in the Latin Church. Rare exceptions are permitted for men who, after ministering as clergy in other churches, join the Catholic Church. This contrasts with the discipline in most Eastern Catholic Churches ordination, in which priesthood (but not episcopate) may be conferred on married men. In the Latin Church a married man may not be admitted even to the diaconate unless he is legitimately destined to remain a deacon and not become a priest. As in Eastern Catholic Churches, marriage after their ordination is not allowed. There is also no difference between the churches with regard to those who have take religious vows of celibacy.
Bishops in the Latin Church are appointed by the Pope on the advice of the various dicasteries of the Roman Curia. The synods of Eastern patriarchal and major archiepiscopal Churches elect bishops for their own territory, receiving from the Pope only letters of recognition; although the Pope can in fact veto the decision, this rarely if ever happens. The bishops for other territories and those of lesser Eastern Catholic Churches are appointed in the same way as Latin bishops, on the advice of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches.
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Aramis
Guest
Vatican II made it clear that the Eastern Faithful should not be permitted to latinize except under extreme cases, and that ideally, children should be raised in the eastern rite in a mixed Roman-Eastern marriage.I have absolutely no evidence for this - it’s just my personal opinion.
However, I think it’s more difficult to transfer from an Eastern rite to the Latin rite simply because the Latin rite is already so large, and the Church really wants to encourage more people to join the Eastern rites to provide some balance.
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BVMFatima
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What I highlighted in bold is incorrect, The Church has many documents referring to Latin Rite Catholics as Roman, and still does. This is from wikipedia, which isn’t the best source, especially when it mentions Roman Catholic also means the Catholics of the east.
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Peter_J
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I’d like to make a general request to everyone to use proper terminology: Roman Rite (not “Latin Rite”), Latin Church (not “Roman Church”), Melkite Church (not “Melkite Rite”) etc etc.
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Peter_J
Guest
Two questions: You mean “latinize” in the sense of “transferring to the Latin Church”? And can you provide the quote? (I’m pretty sure I know which document you’re talking about, but I don’t have time to re-read the whole document.)
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rfournier103
Guest
Okay… I know this is a little off-topic; but it is Roman Rite and Latin Church? They are not interchangable? Please forgive my not knowing. I never knew the proper terms.
Learn something new every day…
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Peter_J
Guest
Oh that’s alright. The Latin Church does, in fact, have many rites, but the Roman Rite is used considerably more than all the others (the Ambrosian Rite, the Mozarabic Rite, the Bragan Rite, etc.) put together.
In the East it tends to be the reverse: the same rite is used by many different churches (particularly the Byzantine Rite which is used by, I think, 14 of the 22 sui iuris Eastern Catholic Churches). But in both the West and the East, “church” and “rite” mean two different things.
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BVMFatima
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So its incorrect for Latin Catholics to call themselves Roman Catholics or Roman Rite? I have read Church documents that mentions " Roman Rite Catholics "
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Peter_J
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It would only be wrong if phrased as “All Latin Catholics without exception are Roman Rite” or something like that. But if you said “I’m a Roman-Rite Catholic” you would quite correct.
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BVMFatima
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So what you’re saying is that we are Latin by church but Roman by rite, correct?
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Peter_J
Guest
Yes. (I can say that since I can see that you live in CT. If we were talking about, say, someone living in Milan they would (most likely) be Latin by church and Ambrosian by rite.)
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LordVoldemort
Guest
Do not Western Rite Orthodox Christians use a modified form of the Roman Rite for their liturgy?
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BVMFatima
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Do Latins who don’t practice the Roman Rite call themselves Ambrosian?
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LordVoldemort
Guest
Ambrosian Rite, also called the Milanese Rite, is a Catholic liturgical Western Rite. The rite is named after Saint Ambrose, a bishop of Milan in the fourth century. The Ambrosian Rite, which differs from the Roman Rite, is practiced among some five million Catholics in the greater part of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy (excluding, notably, the areas of Monza, of Treviglio, of Trezzo sull’Adda and a few other parishes), in some parishes of the Diocese of Como, Bergamo, Novara, Lodi and in about fifty parishes of the Diocese of Lugano, in the Canton Ticino, Switzerland.
Although at various points in its history the distinctive Ambrosian Rite has risked suppression, it survived, and was reformed, after the Second Vatican Council partly because then-Pope Paul VI belonged to the Ambrosian “rite”, having previously been Archbishop of Milan. In the 20th century it also gained prominence and prestige from the attentions of two other scholarly Archbishops of Milan: Achille Ratti, later Pope Pius XI, and the Blessed Ildefonso Schuster, both of whom had been involved in studies and publications on the rite before their appointment.
Although at various points in its history the distinctive Ambrosian Rite has risked suppression, it survived, and was reformed, after the Second Vatican Council partly because then-Pope Paul VI belonged to the Ambrosian “rite”, having previously been Archbishop of Milan. In the 20th century it also gained prominence and prestige from the attentions of two other scholarly Archbishops of Milan: Achille Ratti, later Pope Pius XI, and the Blessed Ildefonso Schuster, both of whom had been involved in studies and publications on the rite before their appointment.
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