Eastern Catholic spirituality: more Orthodox or Catholic?

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EIF5A

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From time to time, I try to read spiritually lifting things from both Churches (even though I attend Roman Catholic Mass and hopefully will be officially Catholic next year).

Anyway, at least from the few writings I have come across, the Orthodox spirituality seems more rigorous and harsh. It almost seems like doing great ascesis and having perfect control mind and body are required for salvation…and there’s no purgatory to get rid of imperfections after death.

On the Roman Catholic side, there are private revelations from Our Lord about His mercy (and there’s a Divine Mercy Sunday) and how much He desires to save even the most wicked sinner. That He knows of our weakness but still loves us and will provide for our deficiencies if we only resolve to not sin, make reparations, and improve in cooperation with divine grace. And the Little Way of St. Therese of Lisieux gives hope for an ordinary person like me to obtain merit.

I only ask because I have great respect for both Churches, but when trying to “combine” both spiritual writings, there’s a sort of cognitive dissonance and I’m just left confused.

Is the Eastern Catholic spirituality more western or eastern? Or does it depend on the person, parish, etc?
 
Eastern Catholic spirituality, is, well, Eastern, at least when it’s being true to its own liturgical and spiritual patrimony.
 
EIF5A said:
Anyway, at least from the few writings I have come across, the Orthodox spirituality seems more rigorous and harsh. It almost seems like doing great ascesis and having perfect control mind and body are required for salvation…and there’s no purgatory to get rid of imperfections after death.
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Orthodox spirituality is rigorous, but not harsh. The monastic ideal is the ideal for all. However, at the same time, there is the realization that different people are at different places, spiritually speaking. One strives towards the monastic ideal, under the guidance of a spiritual father, to the extent one is able. Perfect control of mind and body are to be sought, but they are not required for salvation. Finally, the Orthodox do not have a Latin concept of purgatory, but they do pray for the dead–including that their sins be forgiven–and they believe that the process of theosis continues into eternity.
 
EIF5A said:
On the Roman Catholic side, there are private revelations from Our Lord about His mercy (and there’s a Divine Mercy Sunday) and how much He desires to save even the most wicked sinner. That He knows of our weakness but still loves us and will provide for our deficiencies if we only resolve to not sin, make reparations, and improve in cooperation with divine grace. And the Little Way of St. Therese of Lisieux gives hope for an ordinary person like me to obtain merit.
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There is no lack of emphasis on God’s mercy in Eastern Orthodox teaching. If you want to know what the Orthodox believe, look to the Divine Liturgy. Go to this link, hit ctrl-F and enter the word mercy, and you will see how strongly God’s mercy is emphasized in Eastern Orthodoxy.
 
I would like to emphasis that Eastern Catholics ARE Catholic, not Orthodox.

Now, are they more similar to Roman Rite (or Western) Catholics or the Eastern Orthodox Churches? That kind of depends on what you are comparing.

The Liturgical Rite used in a Byzantine Rite Catholic Church will be very similar to Byzantine Rite Orthodox Church. Same with the Coptic Rite Catholic Church vs a Coptic Rite Orthodox Church, etc.

However, all Catholics, regardless of Rite are in Communion with the Bishop of Rome. Eastern Catholics profess all Catholic Dogma. They might differ in terms of Discipline (married Priests for example), but have the same Dogma (Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, etc.).

The expression will be very similar to their Orthodox cousins, similar vestments, rituals, etc.

The Roman Rite of the Catholic Church (aka the “Roman Catholic Church”) is only a part (the largest part but still just part) of the Catholic Church.

Finally, I always say; not matter the Rite, Catholics are right! 😃

God Bless
 
Catholics believe the Orthodox are schismatic but still have valid Sacraments, but the Orthodox consider the Catholics as heretics (“Frankish”, “innovations”, “papists”). If the Orthodox are “validated” by the lives of numerous holy monks and saints and the apparitions of Our Lord and the Theotokos, then does that make their side more “correct”? But Jesus and the Blessed Mother also appear to Catholics saints…

I feel like a child of divorced parents not knowing which parent to live with.
 
Eastern Catholic spirituality: more Orthodox or Catholic?
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It’s not that I don’t want to answer, I just don’t see how the question makes any sense.

Is being Eastern Catholic a different degree of being Catholic than being Latin Catholic?
 
EIF5A said:
Catholics believe the Orthodox are schismatic but still have valid Sacraments, but the Orthodox consider the Catholics as heretics (“Frankish”, “innovations”, “papists”). If the Orthodox are “validated” by the lives of numerous holy monks and saints and the apparitions of Our Lord and the Theotokos, then does that make their side more “correct”? But Jesus and the Blessed Mother also appear to Catholics saints…

I feel like a child of divorced parents not knowing which parent to live with.
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I totally understand where you are coming from. I even attended an Orthodox service and spent a couple hours discussing the differences with a priest and other church members…
 
Peter_J said:
It’s not that I don’t want to answer, I just don’t see how the question makes any sense.

Is being Eastern Catholic a different degree of being Catholic than being Latin Catholic?
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Not a different degree, but in terms of how theology is understood, which patristic or saintly writings are referred to? Theosis or beatific vision? Purgatory - yes/no - yes but in a different sense? Original sin? Immaculate Conception?

I read somewhere that in the East, the stigmata is not a phenomenon widely known, unlike the Uncreated Light.

And in very general terms, the emphasis on Suffering Christ versus Christ the Victor.
 
Peter_J said:
It’s not that I don’t want to answer, I just don’t see how the question makes any sense.

Is being Eastern Catholic a different degree of being Catholic than being Latin Catholic?
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If it weren’t recognized as such in at least a very general sense, would this particular subforum exist, or any of the other things geared to specifically “Eastern Catholics” that really do make it seem as though they’re at least treated differently for some specific practical purposes (e.g., the CCEO)?

A Roman Catholic rejects the Immaculate Conception and he’s a heretic. An Eastern Catholic rejects the Immaculate Conception and he’s a Melkite. 🤷
 
dzheremi said:
If it weren’t recognized as such in at least a very general sense, would this particular subforum exist, or any of the other things geared to specifically “Eastern Catholics” that really do make it seem as though they’re at least treated differently for some specific practical purposes (e.g., the CCEO)?
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Alright, *different *I can agree with. But, in EIF5A’s words, not a different *degree *(of being Catholic).
dzheremi said:
A Roman Catholic rejects the Immaculate Conception and he’s a heretic. An Eastern Catholic rejects the Immaculate Conception and he’s a Melkite. 🤷
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Spoken like a true veteran of internet discussion fora (which I am admittedly as well :o).
 
dzheremi said:
If it weren’t recognized as such in at least a very general sense, would this particular subforum exist, or any of the other things geared to specifically “Eastern Catholics” that really do make it seem as though they’re at least treated differently for some specific practical purposes (e.g., the CCEO)?
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As a Catholic who loves to learn more about my faith, I am very grateful for this subforum. I visit it regularly to read and (on rare occasions) ask a few questions. It has a great deal of value for me as part of the New Evangelization, and helps me to grow in my faith.
Many thanks to all who post here.
jt
 
EIF5A said:
Catholics believe the Orthodox are schismatic but still have valid Sacraments, but the Orthodox consider the Catholics as heretics (“Frankish”, “innovations”, “papists”).
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Apart from some on the internet, I’ve rarely if ever heard Catholics called heretics by Orthodox out here in the real world, whom I’m around on a regular basis. I have heard us called heterdox, which would be to my mind a neutral term for one who doesn’t hold orthodox views. I have certainly seen Orthodox called heretics by Catholics on this forum. I’ve been called a “uniate”, but when it was used at least in my presence it was not used in a perjorative way. Many Greek Orthodox haven’t a clue what the terms “Easten Catholic”, or “Byzantine Catholic”, much less “Greek Catholic” mean. They know us as “uniates” and are welcoming.

As far as “valid sacraments” the position of the Orthodox which I have always heard is that they “don’t know” if we have valid sacraments or not, not that they say that we don’t have valid sacraments. Not the same thing. (If you’re talking about monks on Mt Athos some there don’t think other Orthodox have valid sacraments.) Jurisdictions vary but Catholics are not baptized in many or most cases in the US at least when becoming Orthodox, and when a Catholic priest becomes an Orthodox priest I’ve rarely heard they were ordained. The norm is more that one moves into Orthodoxy by confession. So if our sacraments aren’t valid that would be very confusing indeed.
 
5Loaves said:
Apart from some on the internet, I’ve rarely if ever heard Catholics called heretics by Orthodox out here in the real world, whom I’m around on a regular basis. I have heard us called heterdox, which would be to my mind a neutral term for one who doesn’t hold orthodox views. I have certainly seen Orthodox called heretics by Catholics on this forum. I’ve been called a “uniate”, but when it was used at least in my presence it was not used in a perjorative way. Many Greek Orthodox haven’t a clue what the terms “Easten Catholic”, or “Byzantine Catholic”, much less “Greek Catholic” mean. They know us as “uniates” and are welcoming.

As far as “valid sacraments” the position of the Orthodox which I have always heard is that they “don’t know” if we have valid sacraments or not, not that they say that we don’t have valid sacraments. Not the same thing. (If you’re talking about monks on Mt Athos some there don’t think other Orthodox have valid sacraments.) Jurisdictions vary but Catholics are not baptized in many or most cases in the US at least when becoming Orthodox, and when a Catholic priest becomes an Orthodox priest I’ve rarely heard they were ordained. The norm is more that one moves into Orthodoxy by confession. So if our sacraments aren’t valid that would be very confusing indeed.
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Amen. I don’t know what Orthodox churches these people are supposedly visiting, but speaking as a former Catholic I’ve never experienced anything even resembling hostility to Catholics in an Orthodox church.
 
Same. Some of the people in my parish thought that Catholics worship St. Mary, which I suppose would be heretical if it were true (which I made sure to say it is not), but none of them have ever called Catholics heretics. In fact, we used to have a few Catholics who regular came to liturgy with us (they’ve since moved away, sadly). We loved them! The nicest people you could find.

I think the throwing around of the word “heretic” comes from a few places we all know (both physical places/communities and common mindsets)…I know I’ve read it here and elsewhere with regard to my communion, but really, what do I care what people I’m not even in communion with think about my church?

(For the record, just in case anyone’s wondering, when I used the term “heretic” in my last post I was referring in a tongue-in-cheek fashion to what I would assume would be thought of as heretical from a Catholic perspective, not my own, i.e., I have seen many, many times on this very forum wrong-headed Latin Catholics take their own Eastern compatriots to task for not embracing explicitly Latin theology in Latin terms, as though Eastern Catholics have no identities and histories of their own. It’s sad, really.)
 
5Loaves said:
Apart from some on the internet, I’ve rarely if ever heard Catholics called heretics by Orthodox out here in the real world, whom I’m around on a regular basis. I have heard us called heterdox, which would be to my mind a neutral term for one who doesn’t hold orthodox views. I have certainly seen Orthodox called heretics by Catholics on this forum. I’ve been called a “uniate”, but when it was used at least in my presence it was not used in a perjorative way. Many Greek Orthodox haven’t a clue what the terms “Easten Catholic”, or “Byzantine Catholic”, much less “Greek Catholic” mean. They know us as “uniates” and are welcoming.

As far as “valid sacraments” the position of the Orthodox which I have always heard is that they “don’t know” if we have valid sacraments or not, not that they say that we don’t have valid sacraments. Not the same thing. (If you’re talking about monks on Mt Athos some there don’t think other Orthodox have valid sacraments.) Jurisdictions vary but Catholics are not baptized in many or most cases in the US at least when becoming Orthodox, and when a Catholic priest becomes an Orthodox priest I’ve rarely heard they were ordained. The norm is more that one moves into Orthodoxy by confession. So if our sacraments aren’t valid that would be very confusing indeed.
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Question: I was under the impression that the Russian Orthodox consider Catholics to be heretics without valid sacraments. Is that a myth too? Or is it really just the Russians? If I’m mistaken, please forgive my error.

God Bless
 
I don’t know any practicing Orthodox myself — I’ve just read various online fora and internet stuff.

Maybe I should stay away from those…😊

But sometimes they have spiritually uplifting stuff…
 
EIF5A said:
I don’t know any practicing Orthodox myself — I’ve just read various online fora and internet stuff.

Maybe I should stay away from those…😊

But sometimes they have spiritually uplifting stuff…
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I can completely relate. I’m big into Internet fora, and yet I have mixed feeling about them too.

I like the Ignore feature (on CAF anyhow, I don’t know if any other forums have that) since it gives me a bit more control over what I read here … but that can also be frustrating since sometime I kind of lose touch with a thread I’m reading. :o
 
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