Eastern Catholic stance on sins of the flesh

[damooster]

I was reading through some older threads regarding masturbation and one of the posters said that in Eastern Catholicism, masturbation is considered venial and not mortal. I was just looking for clarification on this as I can’t seem to find documentation that supports or opposes this statement.

Thanks.

 

[damooster]

I found the post I referred to:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6599821&postcount=88

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Hmmm…

I’m not Eastern Catholic, but his analogy with King David fails. The choice of King David was not a choice between masturbation and rape, it was a choice between not sinning at all and mortally sinning. Rape AND masturbation are mortal sins.

 

[JosephHope]

A guy I know told me that touching yourself is not a mortal sin, he said that he was told so by a priest.

If it is true, I guess it comes from the fact that sins of the flesh are a taboo especially in Middle Eastern cultures, people do not discuss such topics even inside families.

 

[Vico]

I was reading through some older threads regarding masturbation and one of the posters said that in Eastern Catholicism, masturbation is considered venial and not mortal. I was just looking for clarification on this as I can’t seem to find documentation that supports or opposes this statement.

Thanks.

The teachings of the Catholic Church on faith and morals are the same across all the Catholic sui iuris churches. So, as we read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, all sexual sins are grave matter (serious). Moral responsibility for masturbation varies based upon “affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors”. So it is clear that a priest could have correctly judged that for particular conditions that an instance of the sin of masturbation was less serious.

Here are some key teachings:

2346 Charity is the form of all the virtues. Under its influence, chastity appears as a school of the gift of the person. Self-mastery is ordered to the gift of self. Chastity leads him who practices it to become a witness to his neighbor of God’s fidelity and loving kindness.

2341 The virtue of chastity comes under the cardinal virtue of temperance, which seeks to permeate the passions and appetites of the senses with reason.

2342 Self-mastery is a long and exacting work. One can never consider it acquired once and for all. It presupposes renewed effort at all stages of life.129 The effort required can be more intense in certain periods, such as when the personality is being formed during childhood and adolescence.

2395 Chastity means the integration of sexuality within the person. It includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[Bookcat]

The teachings of the Catholic Church on faith and morals are the same across all the Catholic sui iuris churches.

 

[MorEphrem]

Well not to entirely contradict Vico, but the venial/mortal paradigm is solely a Western expression. Not saying it doesn’t reference an objective concept but the paradigm itself is solely in Western use.

There is a tendency to identify a sort of leniency or apathy towards sin as “Eastern” - that is a silly supposition. Masturbation is a disordered act inevitably linked with lust and should be stopped. Do you burn in hell if you masturbated once and then get hit by a car? Not my job to say such things. Even on the Western paradigm one can argue that if it is compulsive masturbation or done in the throes of passion you’re not fully consenting to the sin.

Again, masturbation being a venial/moral sin is a Western paradigm. The objective in the East is to strive to be perfect like the Heavenly Father is perfect. Splitting hairs (I know I’m going to get kickback for that) is not the Eastern modus operandi to use a Latin term.

 

[Bookcat]

Well not to entirely contradict Vico, but the venial/mortal paradigm is solely a Western expression. Not saying it doesn’t reference an objective concept but the paradigm itself is solely in Western use.

Such would not be the case. Though yes other terms get used at times - just as in the west other terms get used for the same thing. The same realities.

Again, masturbation being a venial/moral sin is a Western paradigm.

Such would not be correct. The Teaching of the Catholic Church on such is universal - even if at times variant terms get used.

 

[Vico]

Well not to entirely contradict Vico, but the venial/mortal paradigm is solely a Western expression. Not saying it doesn’t reference an objective concept but the paradigm itself is solely in Western use.

There is a tendency to identify a sort of leniency or apathy towards sin as “Eastern” - that is a silly supposition. Masturbation is a disordered act inevitably linked with lust and should be stopped. Do you burn in hell if you masturbated once and then get hit by a car? Not my job to say such things. Even on the Western paradigm one can argue that if it is compulsive masturbation or done in the throes of passion you’re not fully consenting to the sin.

Again, masturbation being a venial/moral sin is a Western paradigm. The objective in the East is to strive to be perfect like the Heavenly Father is perfect. Splitting hairs (I know I’m going to get kickback for that) is not the Eastern modus operandi to use a Latin term.

Interestingly, in the eastern Catholic canon law the confessor has a particular obligation in providing a cure and penance, to consider the seriousness and number of sins:

Canon 732

1. The confessor is to offer a fitting cure for the illness by imposing appropriate works of penance in keeping with the quality, seriousness and number of the sins, and considering the condition of the penitent as well as his or her disposition for conversion.
2. The priest is to remember that he is placed by God as a minister of divine justice and mercy; as a spiritual father he should also offer appropriate counsel so that the penitent might progress in his or her vocation to sanctity.

I think the Canon 718 on the Mystery is well written. The others show that seriousness is considered.

Canon 718
In the sacrament of penance, the Christian faithful who committed sins after baptism, internally led by the Holy Spirit, turn back to God, moved by the pain of sin, intent on entering a new life through the ministry of the priest, having themselves made a confession and accepted an appropriate penance, obtain forgiveness from God and at the same time are reconciled with the Church which they injured by sinning; by this sacrament they are brought to a greater fostering of the Christian life and are thus disposed for receiving the Divine Eucharist.

Canon 719
Anyone who is aware of serious sin is to receive the sacrament of penance as soon as possible; it is strongly recommended to all the Christian faithful that they receive this sacrament frequently especially during the times of fasts and penance observed in their own Church sui iuris.

Canon 720

1. Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the ordinary way by which the Christian faithful who is aware of a serious sin is reconciled with God and the Church; only physical or moral impossibility excuses one from confession of this type, in which case reconciliation can take place in other ways. …

 

[MorEphrem]

None of your post contradicts what I said. I don’t understand why I bother on this forum anymore.

 

[Bookcat]

None of your post contradicts what I said.

They do not agree in various aspects.

 

[Vico]

None of your post contradicts what I said. I don’t understand why I bother on this forum anymore.

Did you want it to conflict or require is to conflict, in order to post, is not complementarity allowed?

 

[JosephHope]

I am very sorry that I caused a stir by reviving this thread, but my point was that if you go easy on that kind of sins, sometimes it helps, I was a porn addict for 16 years and rarely missed a Mass, I felt that Communion helped me find the right way, after knowing recently that I was (or not since I am an Eastern Catholic) sinning, I went into depression.

As I said elsewhere, people addicted to these sins should be helped and encouraged to attend Mass and take Communion, not pushed away into despair and hopelessness. Jesus did not push sinners away from his body, he was close to them even at the Cross.

 

[Vico]

I am very sorry that I caused a stir by reviving this thread, but my point was that if you go easy on that kind of sins, sometimes it helps, I was a porn addict for 16 years and rarely missed a Mass, I felt that Communion helped me find the right way, after knowing recently that I was (or not since I am an Eastern Catholic) sinning, I went into depression.

As I said elsewhere, people addicted to these sins should be helped and encouraged to attend Mass and take Communion, not pushed away into despair and hopelessness. Jesus did not push sinners away from his body, he was close to them even at the Cross.

In terms of sanctifying grace, it is provided by the sacrament of Confession, and by utilizing that, one can then has access to the Eucharist also. Jesus Christ often healed as we receive in the Mystery of Confession.

John 8:9-11
But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her:

Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

Who said:
No man, Lord.
And Jesus said:
Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.​

 

[Bookcat]

I(or not since I am an Eastern Catholic).

Mortal sin is mortal sin - even if your an Eastern Catholic.

I am not assessing of you or another particular person committed mortal sin (there is more needed then the grave matter) - but the matter itself is yes grave for mortal sin as has been noted above.

This is for all Catholics be they western or eastern.

A regular confessor can be the best help here so as to judge your case as well as to assist in overcoming the difficulties. One should not give up but keep repenting and resolving against…and avoiding the near occasion and getting to confession.

But it needs to be very clear that mortals in is mortal sin - be it in the east or the west.

One is not to receive Holy Communion if one has committed mortal sin (grave sin, serious sin - no matter what one calls it) until it is confessed and absolved.

(in the west there can be *grave * reasons to receive - of exception- where one makes an act of perfect contrition and where one cannot get to confession -but those are exceptions for grave reasons. Vico can speak to what the Oriental code notes about this in the east).

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I am very sorry that I caused a stir by reviving this thread, but my point was that if you go easy on that kind of sins, sometimes it helps, I was a porn addict for 16 years and rarely missed a Mass, I felt that Communion helped me find the right way, after knowing recently that I was (or not since I am an Eastern Catholic) sinning, I went into depression.

As I said elsewhere, people addicted to these sins should be helped and encouraged to attend Mass and take Communion, not pushed away into despair and hopelessness. Jesus did not push sinners away from his body, he was close to them even at the Cross.

I would not phrase it quite the way you have as the formulation could be problematic…however, at the base of what you are saying is the reason why, in matters like this, one is best served by having a regular confessor, or even better a spiritual director, who can assist with dealing with the situation in terms of both the sacrament of penance and the sacrament of the Eucharist and how they are to be approached and used in tandem and how they are to be used along with prayer and other spiritual remedies.

In other words, an authentic pastoral approach by a priest who has the cura animarum is going to go beyond what someone who is not a priest can glean from Canon Law and catechisms and therefrom attempt to offer advice.

As I used to say even to our newly ordained priests, after all their years of preparation, there is always a great danger in overestimating what you think you know and underestimating what you do not even know that you don’t know.

As for the other point, I fail to see any utility whatsoever in the constant references in the thread to what the Occidental Church articulates on sin when the whole question is approaching the topic from the perspectives of the Eastern Churches instead of from the perspective of the West.

 

[Augustine]

Such would not be the case. Though yes other terms get used at times - just as in the west other terms get used for the same thing. The same realities.

Such would not be correct. The Teaching of the Catholic Church on such is universal - even if at times variant terms get used.

It is not a matter of different terms for the same realities, but matter of different understandings about the same realities.

The distinction of sins between venial and mortal makes a lot of sense in the understanding of the Fall in the Latin Church, but they are not equivalent to transgressions and sins in the understanding of the Fall in most Eastern Churches. As a matter of fact, what Latins would call a mortal sin might be understood as a transgressions by Easterners; conversely, what these would call a sin might be understood as a venial sin by Latins.

The East and the West have different teachings about the same realities and both are orthodox. The Church is richer this way.

 

[Bookcat]

It is not a matter of different terms for the same realities, but matter of different understandings about the same realities.

The distinction of sins between venial and mortal makes a lot of sense in the understanding of the Fall in the Latin Church, but they are not equivalent to transgressions and sins in the understanding of the Fall in most Eastern Churches. As a matter of fact, what Latins would call a mortal sin might be understood as a transgressions by Easterners; conversely, what these would call a sin might be understood as a venial sin by Latins.

The East and the West have different teachings about the same realities and both are orthodox. The Church is richer this way.

The Catholic Church would not agree with those ideas there.

Mortal sin (serious sin) would not be what is called “transgressions”.

I stand by what I already noted.

 

[Bookcat]

Q: Do Eastern Catholics believe in Mortal/Venial Sins??

A: Yes for they are Christians in the various Catholic Churches that make up the Catholic Church. Though they may use different terms etc.

Now some may use different “terms” to discuss the same realities of “mortal sin” and “venial sin” --such as “serious sin” for mortal sin and “light sins” or just “sins” for venial. But in the Church as a whole differing terms are used (serious, mortal, grave for the one…venial, light, daily sins for the other).

There can be various spiritual approaches too regarding overcoming etc the daily sins…that can differ and even in the same Church (such is the nature of spiritualities and differing schools of theology). But the reality of Mortal sin and Venial sin is common across the Church (East and West) and the need to confess Mortal (serious) sins too exists throughout the Catholic Church (see Vico above for more on the Eastern Code).

 

[Strydersroom]

I was reading through some older threads regarding masturbation and one of the posters said that in Eastern Catholicism, masturbation is considered venial and not mortal. I was just looking for clarification on this as I can’t seem to find documentation that supports or opposes this statement.

Thanks.

I believe most people do not think masturbation is a sin at all.