Eastern Catholic Veneration of Mary?

[milez97]

Do Eastern Catholics venerate Mary like we do? What kinds of things do they do? Do they pray the rosary or things like that?

 

[Errham]

Yes, they do. In the Eastern Churches Mary is known as the Theotokos (literally, God-Bearer) and she’s considered the Holiest of Holy Ones - holier than any other created creature, holier than all the saints and angels, with the only creature holier than her being Jesus himself. It’s a common misconception in the West that the Eastern Churches place less emphasis on Mary, but in fact, she features much more prominently in the Eastern Liturgies than in the Western ones. Although I can’t comment on Eastern Masses, as I’ve never attended one in English, I do pray the Orthodox Daily Cycle (at least to the ability that you can with a Great Horologion, Psalter and Nasser Five-Pounder) and the number of prayers to Mary in them is simply astounding - especially when compared with the Western LOTH, which only mentions her (outside of her feast days, of course) with a single hymn after Compline (although I guess the Magnificat could be called a passing reference as well).

As for the Rosary, there are similar traditions in the Eastern Churches, however they don’t involve Mary as far as I’m aware. It’s called a prayer rope (Greek: komboskini) and traditionally the only prayer recited on it is the Jesus Prayer. There are also times during the liturgy at which 12 and 40 Kyrie Eleisons are recited - I just use my fingers for these, but I’m guessing in the choral arrangements they use something similar to count them.

The Eastern Churches don’t really have “devotionals” in the sense that Catholics do, except for venerating icons and relics, which they do ALOT more than us. Rather, they worship outside of the liturgy mainly by simply reciting prayers and hymns. Hymns to the Virgin Mary are, in the Greek traditions called “Theotokians” and there’s an entire prayer book devoted entirely to them (which in the Greek Tradition is also called the “Theotokion”.

Some of the more famous examples of Eastern Marian Prayers would be the Akathist to the Theotokos, which is widely regarded as being the most beautiful of all Akathists, and Agni Parthene, a non-liturgical hymn that is extremely well-known even amongst westerners for its beautiful melody.

oca.org/cdn/PDFs/christianwitness/akathist-theotokos-joy-all-who-sorrow.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=IomxvOTf-So

 

[Vanez]

Yes, they do. In the Eastern Churches Mary is known as the Theotokos (literally, God-Bearer) and she’s considered the Holiest of Holy Ones - holier than any other created creature, holier than all the saints and angels, with the only creature holier than her being Jesus himself. It’s a common misconception in the West that the Eastern Churches place less emphasis on Mary, but in fact, she features much more prominently in the Eastern Liturgies than in the Western ones. Although I can’t comment on Eastern Masses, as I’ve never attended one in English, I do pray the Orthodox Daily Cycle (at least to the ability that you can with a Great Horologion, Psalter and Nasser Five-Pounder) and the number of prayers to Mary in them is simply astounding - especially when compared with the Western LOTH, which only mentions her (outside of her feast days, of course) with a single hymn after Compline (although I guess the Magnificat could be called a passing reference as well).

As for the Rosary, there are similar traditions in the Eastern Churches, however they don’t involve Mary as far as I’m aware. It’s called a prayer rope (Greek: komboskini) and traditionally the only prayer recited on it is the Jesus Prayer. There are also times during the liturgy at which 12 and 40 Kyrie Eleisons are recited - I just use my fingers for these, but I’m guessing in the choral arrangements they use something similar to count them.

The Eastern Churches don’t really have “devotionals” in the sense that Catholics do, except for venerating icons and relics, which they do ALOT more than us. Rather, they worship outside of the liturgy mainly by simply reciting prayers and hymns. Hymns to the Virgin Mary are, in the Greek traditions called “Theotokians” and there’s an entire prayer book devoted entirely to them (which in the Greek Tradition is also called the “Theotokion”.

Some of the more famous examples of Eastern Marian Prayers would be the Akathist to the Theotokos, which is widely regarded as being the most beautiful of all Akathists, and Agni Parthene, a non-liturgical hymn that is extremely well-known even amongst westerners for its beautiful melody.

oca.org/cdn/PDFs/christianwitness/akathist-theotokos-joy-all-who-sorrow.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=IomxvOTf-So

Errham,

I thought the OP was asking about Eastern Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox.

And it’s true, we Orthodox don’t have novena. But then again, do Eastern Catholics have novena? They’re a bit different than EO, since EC recites rosary.

The reason Orthodox don’t recite rosary is because we’re not to imagine things (you know when reciting rosary, the person is thinking about the specific event happening about Jesus during particular mystery while praying Hail Mary, right? That!)

 

[Errham]

Errham,

I thought the OP was asking about Eastern Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox.

And it’s true, we Orthodox don’t have novena. But then again, do Eastern Catholics have novena? They’re a bit different than EO, since EC recites rosary.

The reason Orthodox don’t recite rosary is because we’re not to imagine things (you know when reciting rosary, the person is thinking about the specific event happening about Jesus during particular mystery while praying Hail Mary, right? That!)

As the core of Mariology in both churches stems from the council of Ephesus, there aren’t that many differences in the Mariology of our respective churches, the only real major points of contention that I can think of are the immaculate conception and the location of the dormition.

As far as liturgy goes, the Eastern Catholic ones are extremely similar too if not identical too the Orthodox ones.

 

[Vanez]

As the core of Mariology in both churches stems from the council of Ephesus, there aren’t that many differences in the Mariology of our respective churches, the only real major points of contention that I can think of are the immaculate conception and the location of the dormation.

Yes the core of Mariology, the Theotokos is the same, except immaculate conception.

Oh, there is Western rite Orthodox, too, they recite Catholic rosary (without Luminous mystery). This WO uses traditional western liturgies while still in communion with EO.

Isn’t it kinda confusing? For me, it still is. Sometime i still do recite my rosary.

Edited:

Yes Eastern Catholic uses Divine Liturgy of st. John Chrysostom. What I can notice the difference when entering Orthodox Church and Eastern Catholic Church is exactly when we enter both churches…water vs no water (to dip fingers before crossing)

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

Yes they do.

Here in South Africa, there is a beautiful monthly Magazine called Bella, which focuses on encouraging devotion to Our Lady. It’s founder and editor is Francesca Zackey, a Maronite Catholic.

It’s very good reading and I would highly recommend to any South African Catholic.

 

[Vanez]

Yes they do.

Here in South Africa, there is a beautiful monthly Magazine called Bella, which focuses on encouraging devotion to Our Lady. It’s founder and editor is Francesca Zackey, a Maronite Catholic.

It’s very good reading and I would highly recommend to any South African Catholic.

Oh? What is the devotion? Are those novenas, too?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Oh? What is the devotion? Are those novenas, too?

Vanez, you have self identified as an Orthodox Christian. Depending on the particular Church you may attend, some of the “devotions” might be familiar to you.

For example, in the Byzantine tradition, we have three main forms which can be applied to the Theotokos:

Akathist Hymn
Moleben
Paraklesis

Specific forms of such are offered at prescribed points in the liturgical year.

 

[JRS_88]

My grandparents came from Lebanon in 1906, both Maronite.
They had a great devotion to the rosary, and passed that down to us. My grandmother said several rosaries a day. My great-grandmother made and repaired rosaries.
Our neighborhood was made up of Lebanese, and Greek immigrants. The Greek Orthodox parish was about a block away from the Maronite parish. People used to say that you could tell who was Catholic by whether there was a statue of the Blessed Mother in the yard.

 

[Vanez]

Vanez, you have self identified as an Orthodox Christian. Depending on the particular Church you may attend, some of the “devotions” might be familiar to you.

For example, in the Byzantine tradition, we have three main forms which can be applied to the Theotokos:

Akathist Hymn
Moleben
Paraklesis

Specific forms of such are offered at prescribed points in the liturgical year.

Oh, I know the things you mentioned. I was thinking whether or not Eastern Catholics have or use the same novenas as the RC

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Oh, I know the things you mentioned. I was thinking whether or not Eastern Catholics have or use the same novenas as the RC

As Catholics we are encouraged to enjoy the fullness of the expression of faith from our collective traditions - Eastern & Western.

Eastern Catholics may indeed chose to pray novenas by borrowing from the Latin tradition. As a father, I try to pray a novena to St. Joseph when moved to do so.

Speaking from my experience as a Byzantine Catholic, I’d share that it is not uncommon for the Rosary to be prayed before a Divine Liturgy in many parishes, but I’ve never seen or heard of novenas being prayed communally.

 

[twf]

Errham,

I thought the OP was asking about Eastern Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox.

And it’s true, we Orthodox don’t have novena. But then again, do Eastern Catholics have novena? They’re a bit different than EO, since EC recites rosary.

The reason Orthodox don’t recite rosary is because we’re not to imagine things (you know when reciting rosary, the person is thinking about the specific event happening about Jesus during particular mystery while praying Hail Mary, right? That!)

We meditate on the mysteries of the Gospel- the resurrection, the ascension, etc. that’s not imagination and I know of Orthodox who do pray the Rosary. In fact the Eastern Prayer Rule of the Theotokos is older than the Rosary yet very similar to it.

 

[Errham]

There are also times during the liturgy at which 12 and 40 Kyrie Eleisons are recited - I just use my fingers for these, but I’m guessing in the choral arrangements they use something similar to count them.

FYI if anyone could figure this out for me, it would make my prayer a whole lot easier

 

[Vanez]

We meditate on the mysteries of the Gospel- the resurrection, the ascension, etc. that’s not imagination and I know of Orthodox who do pray the Rosary. In fact the Eastern Prayer Rule of the Theotokos is older than the Rosary yet very similar to it.

Sorry, by imagining i didn’t mean fantasy or something like that. I love rosary! I recite it sometime. There are priests who dont recommend it, but it’s still a private devotion so for me there’s nothing wrong with it.

 

[wynd]

FYI if anyone could figure this out for me, it would make my prayer a whole lot easier

Reader here - it’s a lot easier to break them into chunks. For example, when I read 12, I read them like this in my head:

Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy.

This guide for readers recommends sets of 4 as you can easily do both 12 and 40 with it.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Reader here - it’s a lot easier to break them into chunks. For example, when I read 12, I read them like this in my head:

Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy -
Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy; Lord, have mercy.

This guide for readers recommends sets of 4 as you can easily do both 12 and 40 with it.

Current plainchant “framework” in the Byzantine - Ruthenian tradition in the US is:

12 = 2 sets of 6, with each 6 chanted as 2 “phrases” of 3
40 = 4 sets of 10, with each 10 chanted as 2 “phrases” of 5

 

[Vico]

Do Eastern Catholics venerate Mary like we do? What kinds of things do they do? Do they pray the rosary or things like that?

During the Divine Liturgy there is the magnification and/or irmos which takes various forms. Some are:It is truly proper to glorify you, O Theotokos,
the ever-blessed, immaculate, and the mother of our God.
More honorable than the cherubim,
and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim,
who, a virgin, gave birth to God the Word,
you truly the Theotokos, we magnify.

or

In you, O Woman Full of Grace, all creation rejoices
the angels in their ranks and the human race.
Sanctified Temple and Rational Paradise,
Boast of Virgins from whom our God took flesh and became a child
while remaining God from before all time.
He made your womb a throne, setting it apart.
A room more spacious than the heavens.
In you, O Woman Full of Grace, Woman Full of Grace,
all creation rejoices.
Glory to you! Glory to you! Glory to you!

or

The angel
exclaimed to her,
full of grace
Rejoice, O pure Virgin;
and again I say Rejoice!
Your son is risen
from the grave on the third day
and has raised the dead.
Rejoice, all you nations.

Shine in splendor, O new Jerusalem;
for the glory of the Lord is risen upon you
O Zion, now dance and be glad;
and you, pure Theotokos,
rejoice in the resurrection of your Son.

 

[MissRose73]

Do Eastern Catholics venerate Mary like we do? What kinds of things do they do? Do they pray the rosary or things like that?

I’ve noticed she gets mentioned more in the Divine Liturgy compared to the Mass during many of the prayers and hymns in the few times I’ve gone to Divine Liturgy. She is truly all deserving of the veneration & respect she gets.

I just wished the rest of the world would stop thinking Catholics worship Mary when we do not at all but that will be a long time coming.

 

[Vico]

I’ve noticed she gets mentioned more in the Divine Liturgy compared to the Mass during many of the prayers and hymns in the few times I’ve gone to Divine Liturgy. She is truly all deserving of the veneration & respect she gets.

I just wished the rest of the world would stop thinking Catholics worship Mary when we do not at all but that will be a long time coming.

Likely misunderstood also in the Akathist prayer, where it is often intoned:
O Most holy Theotokos, save us!
Also in this Byzantine prayer:
Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness,
O blessed Mother of God,
in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray;
but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities,
for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.
It seems to stem from the reformation beliefs that oppose intercession (dulia and hyperdulia), such as those adopted by the Anglicans (“Protestant Episcopal Church”):

• rejection of the Papacy

• denial of the Church Infallibility

• Justification by Faith only

• supremacy and sufficiency of Scripture as Rule of Faith

• the triple Eucharistic tenet

• that the Eucharist is a Communion or Sacrament, and not a Mass or Sacrifice, save in the sense of praise or commemoration
• the denial of Transubstantiation and worship of the Host
• the denial of the sacrificial office of the priesthood and the propitiatory character of the Mass

• the non-necessity of auricular Confession

• the rejection of the invocation of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints

• the rejection of Purgatory and omission of prayers for the dead

• the rejection of the doctrine of Indulgences

(Ref: Catholic Encylopedia – Anglicanism)

 

[oliver927]

… with the only creature holier than her being Jesus himself.

Jesus most defiantly is NOT a creature!!! Creatures are created. The Nicene Creed we say every Sunday says Jesus is “begotten, not made”. Not made equals not created which equals not a creature.