Eastern Catholic View on Mortal/Venial Sin

[SyroMalankara]

As a Catholic we believe we have the fullness of Christianity. We are members of the one Catholic Church that has declared it has a treasury of graces that we have access too. Having the fullness of Christianity with access to unlimited graces and being in full union with the head of the Church in the physical realm (the Pope) gives us an ability to discern things, very complex theological things. Such as the terms of mortal and venial sin which has developed over the centuries and was not always known within early Christianity. The Eastern Catholic churches believe in mortal and venial sin. Orthodoxy does not distinguish fully in “black and white” mortal and venial sin. Many say simply “sin is sin”. The language used in the Eastern rite may vary. However if they are in full union with us they accept all the Catholic teachings. Again their language they use can be different but they do express the same reality that some sins will immediately sever your relationship with God and some sins will not.

As a Catholic we believe that the Catholic Church is the fullness of Christianity and therefore we have the ability to discern a high level of things. Please clarify to me how I have been insulting or inappropriate.

Please try to look at it from another point of view. If you are in communion with us and our 'lacking lingo/theology/whatever" maybe it’s entirely Catholic to be lacking that perceived different in a different Patristic context and still be just as Catholic

 

[Louman127]

This keeps happening around various fora, Latins keeps stating how un-whatever the East is because of whatever perceived lack they think they have remedied and the East doesnt. In fact, this fillintheblank problem doesn’t exist and therefore a need for whoever to remedy it doesn’t exist either.

Firstly I have not stated which rite I am in yet you pass judgement on the Latin Rite saying “Latins keep saying how un-whatever the Eastern is”.

The simple fact that I am pointing to is that Catholics whether you are Eastern or Western believe in mortal and venial sin period. However one chooses to articulate mortal and venial sin is up to the customs and language of a society. Another fact that I am pointing to is that orthodoxy has not fully declared there is a differentiation of sin.

If I have stated any errors in any of my posts please quote them exactly so I may fix my errors and we can continue this discussion. If that is not possible I will politely exit this conversation as I have said what has needed to be said.

 

[chimo]

As a Catholic we believe we have the fullness of Christianity. We are members of the one Catholic Church that has declared it has a treasury of graces that we have access too. Having the fullness of Christianity with access to unlimited graces and being in full union with the head of the Church in the physical realm (the Pope) gives us an ability to discern things, very complex theological things. Such as the terms of mortal and venial sin which has developed over the centuries and was not always known within early Christianity. The Eastern Catholic churches believe in mortal and venial sin. Orthodoxy does not distinguish fully in “black and white” mortal and venial sin. Many say simply “sin is sin”. The language used in the Eastern rite may vary. However if they are in full union with us they accept all the Catholic teachings. Again their language they use can be different but they do express the same reality that some sins will immediately sever your relationship with God and some sins will not.

As a Catholic we believe that the Catholic Church is the fullness of Christianity and therefore we have the ability to discern a high level of things. Please clarify to me how I have been insulting or inappropriate.

Your opinion on Orthodoxy implies that they do not have the fullness of faith as does the Catholic Church. Yet did you know this is how the Orthodox think about the Church of Rome that she does not have the fullness of faith. We seem to argue too much about preciseness in doctrinal matters rather than what really matters which is love. We sometimes engage into much the letter of the law without engaging what is more important. It doesn’t matter if the Orthodox Church do not classify sin as does the Catholic Church as long as you make your confession. It is true that certain sins have an impact by withdrawing Jesus from such a person. This is what a mortal sin involves. Yet if you think about it any sin does have a property which excludes God because all you were thinking about was you and not the consequences of what you did or say. I am an Orthodox who believes in the classification of sin into venial and mortal. My experiences however in Confession does not bring this about since I try to the best of my knowledge to bring out all of my sins. This means I do not separate the sins into two classes. I just bring out what weighs on my heart and mind. The classification of sins is not that important enough if you are confessing everything on your heart and mind. As long as you bring your sins that in itself a great thing. You do not need to know mortal and venial sins to bring them before the Lord. Allow the theologians to define matters of faith but allow the average layperson the basics he or she needs to love God. The preciseness of doctrinal matters like classification of sin is not as important as when you are living out the faith and here the Orthodox do that just as the Catholic does.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

The official stance of the Melkite Catholic Church in the U.S. is that they do not distinguish between mortal and venal sin, just like the Orthodox.

 

[JRS_88]

The official stance of the Melkite Catholic Church in the U.S. is that they do not distinguish between mortal and venal sin, just like the Orthodox.

Our Maronite priest doesn’t distinguish either, but I don’t think there’s an official stance from the Maronite Church. I’m sure someone more learned will know.

 

[ChristianDude]

I hope I didn’t open a can of worms, I genuinely have an interest in Eastern Christian theology and it appears that this thread has resulted in quite a bit of debate.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Its not your fault. You asked a genuine question. Much of the problem, in my opinion, are people responding from a Latin position as the default universal position, when people ask about the East. Instead of letting Easterners or Eastern learning people answer, many westerners are responding as apologists for their Latin theology or how we must all follow the Latin understanding “subconsciously” or whatever.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

The Wikipedia article on mortal sin has a couple of interesting tidbit (and it actually gives their sources!).

**Though not part of the dogma of the Orthodox Church the mortal/venial distinction is assumed by some Orthodox authors and saints as a theologoumenon. For example, Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov (1807–1867), in his book A Word on Death, in a chapter entitled “Mortal sin”, says:

It has been said earlier that mortal sin of an Orthodox Christian, not being cured by repentance, submits him to eternal suffering; it has also been said that the unbelievers, Muslims, and other non-orthodox, even here are the possession of hell, and are deprived of any hope of salvation, being deprived of Christ, the only means of salvation. Mortal sins for Christians are the next: heresy, schism, blasphemy, apostasy, witchery, despair, suicide, fornication, adultery, unnatural carnal sins,* incest, drunkenness, sacrilege, murder, theft, robbery, and every cruel and brutal injury. Only one of these sins—suicide—cannot be healed by repentance, and every one of them slays the soul and makes the soul incapable of eternal bliss, until he/she cleans himself/herself with due repentance. If a man falls but once in any of these sins, he dies by soul: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. (James 2:10,11)

• Under “unnatural carnal sins” the following are implied: sodomy, bestiality, masturbation, and any unnatural intercourse between married people (such as using contraceptives, consummated oral or consummated anal intercourse, etc.) as is explained in the book Ascetical Trials, also written by Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov (1807–1867).

Similarly, the Exomologetarion of Nicodemus the Hagiorite[37] (1749–1809) distinguishes seven classes of sin:[38]

Pardonable
Near the pardonable
Non-mortal
Near the non-mortal
Between the mortal and the non-mortal
Near the mortal
Mortal
Nicodemus gives the following example for the seven classes of sin. “The initial movement of anger is pardonable; near to the pardonable is for someone to say harsh words and get hot-tempered. A non-mortal sin is to swear; near the non-mortal is for someone to strike with the hand. Between the non-mortal and the mortal is to strike with a small stick; near the mortal is to strike with a large stick, or with a knife, but not in the area of the head. A mortal sin is to murder. A similar pattern applies to the other sins. Wherefore, those sins nearer to the pardonable end are penanced lighter, while those nearer to the mortal end are more severely penanced.”

He also stipulates seven conditions of sin:[39]

Who is the doer of the sin
What sin was committed
Why was it committed
In what manner was it committed
At what time/age was it committed
Where was it committed
How many times was it committed**

So apparently there is a (relatively) recent tradition in the Byzantine East of making the mortal/venial sin distinction. And that tradition posited by none other than one of the greatest saints of the Russian tradition along with one of the compilers of the Philokalia.

EDIT: Since the question of ecclesial association has arisen, and since there are Latins here speaking on behalf of Easterners, I’d like to clarify that I’m Maronite.

 

[Louman127]

I apologize earlier if I had an arrogant connotation to my posts. That was not my intention. After reading these other posts it seems to me that all Catholics believe in mortal and venial sin. And apparently even Orthodox Christians do too. And this stems from an internal knowledge of God within each and every person. We all know, utilizing common sense, that stealing a sandwich impulsively from a grocery store because you are starving is not as serious of a sin then let’s say murder. Our internal knowledge that our Lord has woven into our hearts tells us this.

So after reading these posts I think it would be safe to say that all of us pretty much know there is a difference between sins. Whether that knowledge is expressed in rigid legalistic language or whether it is simply known and expressed with spiritual language which seems more of the case in the eastern rites. As I said it is dependent upon the societies and their traditions and customs and language of how they choose to articulate it to the faithful. Or whether it is not necessarily articulated in language but rather it is more internally known in a spiritual sense.

The roots that I’m trying to expose here are that we all deep down know there is a difference between sin. And again to re-illustrate that I would point to the analogy of stealing a sandwich versus murdering somebody.

Whether the Latin Rite chooses to express this reality in legalistic language is their business. And whether or not the Eastern Catholic churches chooses to express this reality in a spiritual type of language and in a spiritual essence is their business.

You see we have differences that at first will seem to set us apart. But when you get down to it there is one church. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are essentially one and are supposed to be one. They are one and both are true however there is a little bit of a wound. A little bit of disunity to the point they are now called separate when they are one. Time and prayer will hopefully bring Catholics and Orthodox back together again.

The theological differences between the churches may not be so different after all…

My point is not to win but simply help unity. And sometimes unity can be a little bit of a painful process in the form of debates and such. But in the end all of us have one goal and one thing in mind. Love for God and love for neighbor.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone. But sometimes things are hard to express in language. God love you all.

 

[SyroMalankara]

May He guard you and may the Saints be your guide!