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Tradcat1
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Hello guys. I want to learn the eastern catholic way of life. Are there any books which I can read to learn the Eastern catholic way of life
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Vico
Guest
Which tradition? I know of books for the Constantinopolitan traditon. I noticed in another thread of yours that you were interested in the Byzantine (Constantinopolitan). There is a three book series that I have (called Light for Life) and also the Ukrainian Catechism: Christ Our Pascha.
CCEO (Eastern Canon Law)
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Margaret_Ann
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Check out Royal Doors: www.royaldoors.net and browse their articles.
Also ByziMom: www.byzimom.com or on FB.
Also ByziMom: www.byzimom.com or on FB.
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Phillip_Rolfes
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As asked by @Vico, you have to identify the Eastern Catholic tradition with which you want to be associated. There is a great deal of difference in approach, perspective, theology, spirituality, and history between the Byzantine tradition and the Coptic tradition, for example.
Understand too that the Eastern Christian way of life, in general, is very closely tied to the Church’s liturgical life. It’s impossible to lead an “Eastern Catholic way of life” without being able to participate in the liturgical life of whatever tradition you’re interested in.
Honestly, if you want an approach to spirituality that is close to the Eastern Catholic approach, but within the Roman tradition, I’d recommend you start digging into Benedictine spirituality. Much of Benedictine spirituality is drawn from the Desert Fathers (particularly from St. John Cassian’s Conferences and Institutes), who are the common source of spirituality for both East and West. Get yourself a copy of the Conferences and start prayerfully working your way through them.
Understand too that the Eastern Christian way of life, in general, is very closely tied to the Church’s liturgical life. It’s impossible to lead an “Eastern Catholic way of life” without being able to participate in the liturgical life of whatever tradition you’re interested in.
Honestly, if you want an approach to spirituality that is close to the Eastern Catholic approach, but within the Roman tradition, I’d recommend you start digging into Benedictine spirituality. Much of Benedictine spirituality is drawn from the Desert Fathers (particularly from St. John Cassian’s Conferences and Institutes), who are the common source of spirituality for both East and West. Get yourself a copy of the Conferences and start prayerfully working your way through them.
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seraphim09
Guest
From a fellow Latin Catholic:
It is important to note that there is no single “Eastern Catholic” tradition.
I started out by attending a couple of Holy Qurbonos in the Maronite Catholic Church in 2006. Came back a few years later, while attending my Roman (“Anglican Use”) parish. Then joined a starting Ruthenian (Byzantine) Catholic quasi-mission, sometimes after my Roman Mass and in alternation with the Maronite parish, which recited the Holy Rosary before Qurbono, not a common practice at Byzantine Catholic parishes (I say this not to boast, but rather so nobody thinks my math and my accounting of my time is horrid). Attended Ruthenian and Maronite churches for about seven years for one and eight years for the other. Some time between this I attended a couple of Qurbonos (?) according to the Syro-Malabar rite, which is different from the Byzantines, or at least different enough as I cannot read their text, but it is beautiful.
All this to say that I attended Ruthenian (Byzantine) Divine Liturgy for six years before attending my first Melkite Divine Liturgy, also a form of the Byzantine rite, but alas, as I cannot read the text of their liturgy, my experience there was completely different from the Ruthenian church - but very, very beautiful nevertheless. The Melkite, Ruthenian, Syro-Malabar, and Maronites are Catholic churches sui juris, by the way.
I write this long post once again not to boast, but to remind my fellow Latins that there is not one Eastern Catholic church, one Eastern Catholic spirituality.
It is important to note that there is no single “Eastern Catholic” tradition.
I started out by attending a couple of Holy Qurbonos in the Maronite Catholic Church in 2006. Came back a few years later, while attending my Roman (“Anglican Use”) parish. Then joined a starting Ruthenian (Byzantine) Catholic quasi-mission, sometimes after my Roman Mass and in alternation with the Maronite parish, which recited the Holy Rosary before Qurbono, not a common practice at Byzantine Catholic parishes (I say this not to boast, but rather so nobody thinks my math and my accounting of my time is horrid). Attended Ruthenian and Maronite churches for about seven years for one and eight years for the other. Some time between this I attended a couple of Qurbonos (?) according to the Syro-Malabar rite, which is different from the Byzantines, or at least different enough as I cannot read their text, but it is beautiful.
All this to say that I attended Ruthenian (Byzantine) Divine Liturgy for six years before attending my first Melkite Divine Liturgy, also a form of the Byzantine rite, but alas, as I cannot read the text of their liturgy, my experience there was completely different from the Ruthenian church - but very, very beautiful nevertheless. The Melkite, Ruthenian, Syro-Malabar, and Maronites are Catholic churches sui juris, by the way.
I write this long post once again not to boast, but to remind my fellow Latins that there is not one Eastern Catholic church, one Eastern Catholic spirituality.
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Margaret_Ann
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WOW. You are truly blessed. I’ve been to Ukrainian, Byzantine, Roman and Maronite Catholic Churches. I’d love to to see an Armenian, Chaldean, Melkite or Syro-Malabar Catholic Church Qorbono/Liturgy/Mass sometime.
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Alexandria2020
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Qurbana … That’s how it is in East Syriac. Qurbana means offering or sacrifice. Holy Qurbana. or Qurbana Qandisha, where Qandisha means Holy. (The Chaldean Catholics pronounce it Qadisha while we Malabars say Qandisha). We employ the Liturgy of Ss. Addai and Mari.
While the West Syriacs say Qurbono. The other Eastern Catholic Church in India - Malankara Syrian Catholic Church falls in this West Syriac category. West Syriacs employ the Divine Liturgy of St James. I’ve been told the West Syriacs are more Hellenized.
While the Maronites have their own liturgy even tho they are in the West Syriac category (but they have some East Syriac influences in them as well).
*Just to add… I’ve noticed many people confuse between Syro-Malabar Church and the Malankara Catholic Church (also called Syro-Malankara Church).
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babochka
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I’ve been to Ukrainian, Russian, Chaldean, Maronite, Melkite, and Syro-Malabar. I have appreciated them all, but there’s no place like home (Ruthenian).
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
True. I feel the same way about my Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
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Margaret_Ann
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Btw, I thought you’d like to see my post here:
Eastern Catholics defending Orthodoxy vs Roman Catholics Eastern Catholicism
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Elvis_George
Guest
I fully agree with the post you had just written above! God Bless!
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Elvis_George
Guest
I’ve seen Syro Malankara, Syriac Orthodox, and I’ve seen half of the Byzantine Liturgy and I’m still in a tie between Syro Malankara/Syria Orthodox and Syro Malabar
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Elvis_George
Guest
Besides Ukranian, Russian, Ruthenian, and Melkite, what was your favourite liturgy?
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Woah. That is actually on my bucket list…
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference between Syro-Malabar & Syro-Malankar? I always get them mixed up.
On a side note, I understand that you and @Alexandria2020 want to get rid of Latinizations in your Tradition. However, it has to be done gradually.
When I was baptized & chrismated, the UGCC still had the Filioque in the Creed. I grew up professing the Creed with the Filioque. That was the Creed of my Baptism.
In 2004, +Soroka, our then-Metropolitan, decreed that the Filioque would no longer be said in the Creed. Our Archeparchy printed a booklet on the Creed and the Holy Trinity, explaining to the faithful why this change was being made.
I was grieved. It was like giving up part of the Creed of my Baptism. I professed that Creed through my godparents when I was a baby. How could I not say the Filioque? That was 16 years ago.
Now, I say the Filioque in my private prayers but at Liturgy, I make a small sign of the cross since I can’t say the Filioque at Liturgy.
I’m still learning about my Byzantine Tradition and hope that you and @Alexandria2020 learn more about the Syriac Tradition.
Idk if you saw them, but @Alexandria2020 posted on previous threads the morning and evening prayers of St. Ephrem. Those were beautiful but I don’t remember whether or not I saved them.
Last week’s Lumen Christi lecture on St. Ephrem was marvelous. I learned a lot from that lecture and hope they have more on St. Ephrem and the Syriac Tradition.
I know it’s out of season but for you & @Alexandria2020:
Al-Maseeh Haqqam! Haqqam qir!
On a side note, I understand that you and @Alexandria2020 want to get rid of Latinizations in your Tradition. However, it has to be done gradually.
When I was baptized & chrismated, the UGCC still had the Filioque in the Creed. I grew up professing the Creed with the Filioque. That was the Creed of my Baptism.
In 2004, +Soroka, our then-Metropolitan, decreed that the Filioque would no longer be said in the Creed. Our Archeparchy printed a booklet on the Creed and the Holy Trinity, explaining to the faithful why this change was being made.
I was grieved. It was like giving up part of the Creed of my Baptism. I professed that Creed through my godparents when I was a baby. How could I not say the Filioque? That was 16 years ago.
Now, I say the Filioque in my private prayers but at Liturgy, I make a small sign of the cross since I can’t say the Filioque at Liturgy.
I’m still learning about my Byzantine Tradition and hope that you and @Alexandria2020 learn more about the Syriac Tradition.
Idk if you saw them, but @Alexandria2020 posted on previous threads the morning and evening prayers of St. Ephrem. Those were beautiful but I don’t remember whether or not I saved them.
Last week’s Lumen Christi lecture on St. Ephrem was marvelous. I learned a lot from that lecture and hope they have more on St. Ephrem and the Syriac Tradition.
I know it’s out of season but for you & @Alexandria2020:
Al-Maseeh Haqqam! Haqqam qir!
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Alexandria2020
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Technically Malankara and Malabar both mean the same thing-- the Malabar coast area- the modern south- western state of Kerala in India. Malankara is the more older name.
Basically the St Thomas Christian community of Malabar in India were in communion with the Church of East of Persia up until the 16th century. By tradition, St Thomas Christians believe their Church was founded by Thomas the Apostle in the 1st century.
By the 16th century- the Portuguese Latin Catholic missionaries come into picture. And they set up an archdiocese in Goa in western India (Archdiocese of Goa). I believe St Francis Xavier was in Goa as well.
The Portuguese missionaries seeing the Thomas Christians labeled them as heretics as they considered them to be “Nestorian” Christians.
By the late 16th century the Thomas Christians were under Mar Abraham of Angamaly (Church of the East metropolitan who later became Chaldean Catholic). Mar Abraham dies by 1597 or so.
The Portuguese enter the picture after Mar Abraham’s death. Through the Synod of Diamper of 1599, they bring the Thomas Christians under the jurisdiction of the Latin Archdiocese of Goa. And bring forth latinizations among the Thomas Christians. The Portuguese burned many of the books of the Thomas Christians which are now lost in history. So the Thomas Christians turn into being a half-East Syriac and half- Latin Church. The Portuguese forced the Tridentine Mass on the believers but no one accepted it.
About 50 years later, by 1653 or so, protesters held the Coonan Cross Oath - a protest against the Latin/Portuguese/Jesuit rule. This faction was headed by archdeacon Thomas I who later joined in full communion with the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (West Syriac Rite). So this faction who became Syriac Orthodox came to be called the Malankara Church. Syriac Orthodox bishop Gregorios Abdal Jaleel from Iraq came and consecrated archdeacon Thomas I as bishop to head the Malankara Church.
While the Pope with the help of the Carmelites were able to bring a good size of the protesters back in communion with Rome. This faction of East Syriac Rite Catholics became the modern day Syro-Malabar Church (they were under Latin jurisdiction until 1887). They get the name Malabar from the Latin Diocese of Malabar (the former name of the RC Archdiocese of Verapoly). The Malabar Diocese had both Latin and East Syriac Rite Catholics. When Pope Leo XIII separated the Syrians from the Latins in 1887, the Syrians got the “Syro-Malabar” tag. It’s noted in history that during the 17th and 18th centuries the Syro-Malabars were known as the Malankara Chaldean Syrian Church. So even they previously had the “Malankara” name affiliated with them.
Now a faction of the Malankara Church (West Syriac Rite) under Malankara Orthodox bishop Mar Ivanios came in communion with Rome in 1930 (20th century). This faction became the Syro-Malankara Church who are commonly referred to as Malankara Catholics.
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Alexandria2020
Guest
Same here, I’m just only learning now, more about my East Syriac traditions. I’ve been catechized to think like a Latin.
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Elvis_George
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that is what is happening rn, but in 1 archeparchy it’s not happening at all
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Elvis_George
Guest
Same here…
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
Ditto. In my Byzantine Seminary Press pew book (1965), the Roman Catholic Hail Mary is opposite the Slavonic version which is Byzantine. IOW, the English version is NOT a translation of the Slavonic!
This is Slavonic transliteration:
Bohorodytse Divo, radusya blahodatnaya,
obradovannaya Mariye Hospod’ z toboyu, blahoslovennaya ti v zhenakh i blahosloven plod’ chreva Tvoyeho, yako rodila yesi Khrista spasa izbavitelya dusham nashim.
This is what it should look like in English:
Rejoice, O Mary, Virgin Theotokos, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne Christ, the Savior and Deliverer of our souls.
I didn’t find out that the English wasn’t a translation of the Slavonic until I read my father’s Ukrainian Catholic missal (sic) which had the Byzantine version of the Hail Mary in English and Slavonic.
However, I’ve said the Latin Hail Mary all my life. I pray the Rosary and am still learning about the Jesus Prayer.
And TBH, when I try to pray either the Rosary or the Jesus Prayer, I get bombarded by distractions. Sometimes I can’t even get past the words “Hail Mary…” “Lord…oh I forgot to do that…” (You get the idea.)
Spiritual reading, the Horologion, Liturgy - no problem. Very rarely do I actually get to pray the Rosary or the Jesus Prayer without distractions. Does that make sense?
This is Slavonic transliteration:
Bohorodytse Divo, radusya blahodatnaya,
obradovannaya Mariye Hospod’ z toboyu, blahoslovennaya ti v zhenakh i blahosloven plod’ chreva Tvoyeho, yako rodila yesi Khrista spasa izbavitelya dusham nashim.
This is what it should look like in English:
Rejoice, O Mary, Virgin Theotokos, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne Christ, the Savior and Deliverer of our souls.
I didn’t find out that the English wasn’t a translation of the Slavonic until I read my father’s Ukrainian Catholic missal (sic) which had the Byzantine version of the Hail Mary in English and Slavonic.
However, I’ve said the Latin Hail Mary all my life. I pray the Rosary and am still learning about the Jesus Prayer.
And TBH, when I try to pray either the Rosary or the Jesus Prayer, I get bombarded by distractions. Sometimes I can’t even get past the words “Hail Mary…” “Lord…oh I forgot to do that…” (You get the idea.)
Spiritual reading, the Horologion, Liturgy - no problem. Very rarely do I actually get to pray the Rosary or the Jesus Prayer without distractions. Does that make sense?
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