Eastern Catholics Alone

[Augustinian]

A gentleman I knew maybe 20 years ago was an Armenian here Pittsburgh, a professional man who grew up in California. Came here for work, was raised as an Armenian Catholic- but there are no Armenian Catholic churches anywhere near Pittsburgh.

Basically, he was Armenian here in Pittsburgh by himself.

How Eastern Catholics in America and elsewhere in the west who are separated from the their sui juris churches by wide expanses of geography- and what are the instructions or expectations for these people?

In the early 19th Century particularly, Latin Rite catholics were a pretty small minority in many places in America- men like John Neumann were “circuit riders” or traveling priests visiting families on the frontier. Do eastern Catholic eparchies have such a function?

 

[Genesis315]

It seems the situation you describe at the end would only be necessary if there were no or very few Catholic priests period. I’m a Latin Catholic, but if I were, say, somewhere in Armenia where there were only Armenian Catholic Churches, I would just go there. Sometimes, when in Rome, you just need to do what the Romans do…We’re all one Church after all.

 

[Augustinian]

somewhere in Armenia where there were only Armenian Catholic Churches, I would just go there.

Yes. But over an extended period of time, if you are separated from your sui juris church, the tendency would be to lose connectivity with your own people.

 

[phil19034]

Genesis315:

somewhere in Armenia where there were only Armenian Catholic Churches, I would just go there.

Yes. But over an extended period of time, if you are separated from your sui juris church, the tendency would be to lose connectivity with your own people.

True, but that naturally happens when you immigrate to a new land.

 

[Augustinian]

True, but that naturally happens when you immigrate to a new land.

Not necessarily, when the first Carpatho-Rusyn immigrants first came to the Pittsburgh area to work in coal mines and steel mills, the Greek Catholic priests followed in due time. Of course they numbered in the thousands.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

True, but that naturally happens when you immigrate to a new land.

Not necessarily, when the first Carpatho-Rusyn immigrants first came to the Pittsburgh area to work in coal mines and steel mills, the Greek Catholic priests followed in due time. Of course they numbered in the thousands.

Of course there are exceptions, eps when large numbers of of immigrates from the same place settle in an area. But when you are the sole person, you typically assimilate faster.

 

[Vico]

A gentleman I knew maybe 20 years ago was an Armenian here Pittsburgh, a professional man who grew up in California. Came here for work, was raised as an Armenian Catholic- but there are no Armenian Catholic churches anywhere near Pittsburgh.

Basically, he was Armenian here in Pittsburgh by himself.

How Eastern Catholics in America and elsewhere in the west who are separated from the their sui juris churches by wide expanses of geography- and what are the instructions or expectations for these people?

In the early 19th Century particularly, Latin Rite catholics were a pretty small minority in many places in America- men like John Neumann were “circuit riders” or traveling priests visiting families on the frontier. Do eastern Catholic eparchies have such a function?

In areas where there is no jurisdiction for a sui iuris church, the care of the faithful is the responsibility of the Latin Church as it has the ecumenical responsibility in general. The situation can be reversed, however, such as in Eritrea, where the Eritrean Catholic Church cares for the Latin Catholics (who have no jurisdiction of their own). In some areas there are eastern ordinariates established that care for the faithful of more than one eastern sui iuris church.

http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID=123&pagetypeID=9&sitecode=HQ&pageno=1

 

[Augustinian]

Of course there are exceptions, eps when large numbers of of immigrates from the same place settle in an area. But when you are the sole person, you typically assimilate faster.

This is the main problem that the Eastern Catholic sui juris churches face in their future. They are small and spread out, and assimilation with the larger population is taking place. And with the population become more and more mobile, the process is accelerating.

 

[Casilda]

In areas where there is no jurisdiction for a sui iuris church, the care of the faithful is the responsibility of the Latin Church as it has the ecumenical responsibility in general…

… In some areas there are eastern ordinariates established that care for the faithful of more than one eastern sui iuris church.

Regarding the latter quote above, this is what was arranged in my former parish. We were a conglomerate of Eastern Catholics. Why? Its in regards to the first quote, historically in the area, Eastern Catholics were marginalized by Latin Catholics and were not treated any better at Eastern Orthodox parishes, either.

Now that I am in an area with no EC parish, I see what my fellow EC parishioners were talking about in regards to Latin prejudice.

 

[angelic06]

It seems the situation you describe at the end would only be necessary if there were no or very few Catholic priests period. I’m a Latin Catholic, but if I were, say, somewhere in Armenia where there were only Armenian Catholic Churches, I would just go there. Sometimes, when in Rome, you just need to do what the Romans do…We’re all one Church after all.

No, as a Latin Catholic, I think Eastern Catholics should be encouraged to retain their rite by all means licit and reasonable - if it means circuit riding priests, then do it, even if it means Divine Liturgy once a month while attending the local Roman Mass the other Sundays. Or by means of bi-ritual priests, then do that.

This one Church is actually a Church of churches. And if Protestants and even unbelievers see that the Catholic Church has only one way of worship (sometimes not even done with excellence, if not outright sloppily), then they may think this is the religion of only one people and not a truly universal one.

We as Latins should not be encouraging Eastern Catholics to renounce their traditions, insomuch as they are in conformity with the King’s laws.

 

[Augustinian]

Now that I am in an area with no EC parish, I see what my fellow EC parishioners were talking about in regards to Latin prejudice.

What exactly are you referring to as “latin prejudice”? What would you like to have happen?

 

[dochawk]

What exactly are you referring to as “latin prejudice”? What would you like to have happen?

The short list is not tell us we don’t understand, not try to liquidate us, not try to assimilate us, not demand that we use latin observance rather than our own, not try to explain our own theology back in roman terms as if the west (or the western layman explaining) knew better than the east.

The rest are kind of similar.

hawk

 

[phil19034]

Casilda:

Now that I am in an area with no EC parish, I see what my fellow EC parishioners were talking about in regards to Latin prejudice.

What exactly are you referring to as “latin prejudice”? What would you like to have happen?

I’m a Latin Catholic, however, I know that this happens quite a bit in Catholic schools. For example: Eastern Catholics confirm their children with Baptism. I’ve heard stories about Eastern Catholics attending Latin Catholic schools where the school was trying to force First Communion and/or Confirmation on the child - the parents eventually had to get the bishop involved. Or where in theology class, the child points out a one of the acceptable differences some of the Eastern Rites have from the Latin Rite and the child is either told that their answer is wrong (when it is correct) or told something like “well, we only teach Roman Catholic theology.”

Today, this is most likely the biggest occurrence of “Latin prejudice.” When a Catholic school learns that they have an Eastern Catholic at their school, the principal, chaplain(s), and religion teachers (at a bare minimum) should be studying that rite so they understand the differences. And the kids other teachers should know some basics so they don’t in accidentally Latinize the child.

Also, when a Latin Catholic School has an Eastern Catholic in their theology class, it should be welcomed as an unique opportunity to teach the universality of the Catholic faith, not treated as a nuance or obstacle.

God bless

 

[Vico]

…
Now that I am in an area with no EC parish, I see what my fellow EC parishioners were talking about in regards to Latin prejudice.

The canon law is binding and specifically addresses the rights of the eastern Catholic sui iuris faithful, so the prejudice is not in the law itself, but can arise from ignorance.

 

[JRS_831]

Well said! I’m so glad you said this.

 

[JRS_831]

I’m a Latin Catholic, however, I know that this happens quite a bit in Catholic schools. For example: Eastern Catholics confirm their children with Baptism. I’ve heard stories about Eastern Catholics attending Latin Catholic schools where the school was trying to force First Communion and/or Confirmation on the child - the parents eventually had to get the bishop involved.

This happened to me in the 1970s. One of the nuns said it was “absolutely ridiculous” to “confirm” a baby.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

I wish that were true. In my expereince, they aren’t particularly interested in learning about the East. Where I live, people are very set in their ways and it’s like pulling teeth to introduce anything new.

My daughter is in first grade and wasn’t given the highest grade on her report card early in the year because “she is having trouble with the sign of the cross”…translation…she does it WRONG! We even informed her teacher at the beginning of the year that she was Eastern…sigh…she doesn’t take communion even though she can simply b/c she doesn’t want to be singled out. Next year should be interesting as she is in 2nd grade where they have 1st communion and my son will be in 8th where they do confirmation…sigh…

 

[babochka]

phil19034:

I’m a Latin Catholic, however, I know that this happens quite a bit in Catholic schools. For example: Eastern Catholics confirm their children with Baptism. I’ve heard stories about Eastern Catholics attending Latin Catholic schools where the school was trying to force First Communion and/or Confirmation on the child - the parents eventually had to get the bishop involved.

This happened to me in the 1970s. One of the nuns said it was “absolutely ridiculous” to “confirm” a baby.

Did they tell you that you make the sign of the cross wrong, too? That’s what they told me. I still don’t think the good sisters were quite convinced that I was really Catholic.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Yep! too Orthodox to be Catholic and too Catholic to be Orthodox…I wish they knew the history of the sign of the cross…there really is no wrong way to do it b/c both ways are correct.