That happens a lot around here
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Then how you do explain that the Ukrainian Catholic catechism released a while back does mention purgatory? Are the hierarchs, who are our pastors and teachers, wrong?That happens a lot around here
Answer, from an actual Eastern Catholic, no we do not have ‘purgatory’.
griego catolico
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2adtu.htm
Yes, it’s all part of a massive conspiracy to destroy the true Eastern faith. They also have a computer with the names of all the faithful Eastern Catholics like Constantine on it.
Yes, it’s all part of a massive conspiracy to destroy the true Eastern faith. They also have a computer with the names of all the faithful Eastern Catholics like Constantine on it.
None of those applies to us. Not part of our belief. Our whole theology doesn’t revolve around inflicting some kind of pain for someone’s process of purification. We believe in praying for the souls of the departed. That is it. Everything beyond that is speculative.griego catolico
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2adtu.htm
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-catholics-to-believe-that-the-cleansing-fire-of-purgatory-is-real-physical-fire
Yes, it’s all part of a massive conspiracy to destroy the true Eastern faith. They also have a computer with the names of all the faithful Eastern Catholics like Constantine on it.
The UGCC admittedly is the most Latinized of all Eastern Catholics, mainly during the time of the Soviet occupation the Major Archbishop was in the Vatican. And they had no seminaries and everyone was educated in the Latin seminary. It is only recently when they have started opening their own theological school that will teach the authentic faith. The Catechism is more of a statement of the maturity of the Church, trying to shore up its bid for Patriarchate status, than trying to de-Latinize the Church. And given that they are aiming to be a Patriarchate by 2020, do you think they’ll ruffle the feathers of Rome right now? Last thing Rome would want is another Patriarch acting like the Melkite Patriarch.
Why do the Orthodox need to accept that, we are not in communion with them? The Orthodox claim they are the true Catholic Church and not the Roman Catholic Church, it has never stopped Roman Catholics from claiming to be Catholic.
You are definitely mistaken on that one.
This was not addressed to me, so excuse me for jumping in, but I would say you could hypothetically say perhaps it would involve pain in the sense of letting go of earthly attachments and human desires, but it wouldn’t be a vengeful, hellfire kind of pain. Theosis is the process of becoming ‘like God’ and drawing near him, that shouldn’t be a punishment kind of painful.
I would say that as the current Latin church describes it, it can be interpreted as simply a descriptive phrase and conjecture about what happens after death, but when you have the hardbent traditionalists who try to claim it is most definitely a place of hellfire (and that Eastern Catholics must adopt this teaching) then that does not seem compatible with Eastern understanding.
I would agree, from what I have heard, the Maronites seem the most Latinized, however the UGCC is pretty bad in some areas. But, I do have hope that we are heading in the right direction and reclaiming our true teaching and tradition.
Latins agree that sanctification/deification is the process of becoming “like God” - that’s the whole point of the sacraments/Christian life!.. but that being said, Scripture is pretty clear that suffering is part of this process. (It is also clear that suffering in and with Christ is to be a joyful experience because it brings us and others closer to Him - this is why the Latin tradition has described purgatory as a period of great suffering and also of great joy - all at once). St. Paul tells us that he rejoices in his sufferings for he “makes up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ” (Col. 1:24) and that in order to share in the glory of Christ we must first share in His suffering (Romans 8:17)…Jesus teaches us that imperfect, but well meaning, servants will be disciplined with “light beatings” when He returns (Luke 12:47-48)…the book of Hebrews reminds us that God will discipline all of His children (Hebrews 12:11)…
The Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches applies to you. It doesn’t matter how much you dislike it and try to rationalize it, the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches applies to you and you are bound to believe in Purgatory. There’s no in between position on orthodoxy.
At their worst, the UGCC and Ruthenian GCC’s were FAR more latinized than the Maronites by comparison to their baseline liturgical texts. Roman vestments, including the maniple, even, in some parishes… merely adding the requisite crosses and icons.
No. Theosis teaches a continuing and ever increasing communion with God. There is growth even in heaven, and because God is infinite, the growth will never end. This growth is not brought about by pain and suffering because you are already in communion with God. Thus any further purification is achieved by growth in love with God and not by pain and/or suffering.
Purgatory certainly fits the Roman understanding of salvation. Whether it is consistent with Patristic teaching or not is beyond my pay grade though.
Really? Do you know of any Eastern Catholic Church that willfully remade their Church into the Roman Catholic Church, part of which is so that they won’t be persecuted by the Soviets. But also, like I said, they lost all their schools for the better part of a century. All the formation of their priests was done at Latin seminaries.
Purgatory is mentioned in the CCEO?
Yes, our bishops of not so long ago still have pictures in and around our Eparchy wearing Latin vestments and Latin episcopal clothing. And a lot of our parishes still do not have their iconostas back. Even the candle arrangements on the altars are mostly Latin rather than the Byzantine 7 candles.
The CCEO states that you must believe all of the dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church. That includes purgatory.
And that is canon number…
But we don’t have to call it purgatory.