Eastern Catholics and the term Roman Catholic

[BVMFatima]

This is a question that I’ve always had and did not understand, and it is why do Eastern Catholics get offended when called Roman Catholic? Why does the term Roman Catholic only mean the Western Church?

God Bless and thank you for your time

 

[ConstantineTG]

This is a question that I’ve always had and did not understand, and it is why do Eastern Catholics get offended when called Roman Catholic? Why does the term Roman Catholic only mean the Western Church?

God Bless and thank you for your time

Because we want to assert our identity as separate Churches, rather than just being Rites under the one Roman Church.

Its like calling Canadians as Americans. Sure, we’re on the same continent, we pretty much share the same infrastructure, shared economy, almost identical culture, etc. But Canadians are not Americans and it is insulting to call them as Americans. We’re not the same country.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Because we want to assert our identity as separate Churches, rather than just being Rites under the one Roman Church.

Its like calling Canadians as Americans. Sure, we’re on the same continent, we pretty much share the same infrastructure, shared economy, almost identical culture, etc. But Canadians are not Americans and it is insulting to call them as Americans. We’re not the same country.

That’s actually a really good analogy imho.

 

[BVMFatima]

But isent the Roman Church ( The Diocese of Rome ) the Head of the Church? Dosent Roman Catholic mean a Catholic in communion with Rome?

 

[RyanBlack]

But isent the Roman Church ( The Diocese of Rome ) the Head of the Church? Dosent Roman Catholic mean a Catholic in communion with Rome?

No, the Roman Church is not the Head of the Church. Christ is the Head of the Church, and the Bishop of Rome is the visible head of the Church on Earth. Eastern Catholics are Catholic by virtue of our bishops being in communion with the Bishop of Rome. That does not necessitate calling us “Roman.” We are not Roman. We are Melkite, or Ruthenian, or Coptic, or Chaldean, and so forth. The label “Catholic” is sufficient to indicate our union with the Bishop of Rome. After all, the name of the universal Church is simply the Catholic Church, not the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[yawsep1569]

But isent the Roman Church ( The Diocese of Rome ) the Head of the Church? Dosent Roman Catholic mean a Catholic in communion with Rome?

*These individual Churches, whether of the East or the West, although they differ somewhat among themselves in rite (to use the current phrase), that is, in liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual heritage, are, nevertheless, each as much as the others, entrusted to the pastoral government of the Roman Pontiff, the divinely appointed successor of St. Peter in primacy over the universal Church. They are consequently of equal dignity, so that none of them is superior to the others as regards rite and they enjoy the same rights and are under the same obligations, also in respect of preaching the Gospel to the whole world (cf. Mark 16, 15) under the guidance of the Roman Pontiff. * (Orientalium Ecclesiarum, Paragraph 3).

And even if the Roman Church was the head, I do not believe the term is still accurate. The Pope may be the head, but he is still not my bishop. Even if the Roman Church was the head (which it is not according to VII), it would still not be my church.

Why do you think this term is necessary? By definition, Catholic includes the state of being in communion with the Church/Pope of Rome. What is gained from adding the extra and unnecessary term “Roman” in front of it?

 

[ConstantineTG]

But isent the Roman Church ( The Diocese of Rome ) the Head of the Church? Dosent Roman Catholic mean a Catholic in communion with Rome?

No. The naming of Churches is not about with whom they are in communion with. In the early Church, to be in communion with anyone in the Church is to be part of the Church. To be not in communion means you are a heretic. The names are representative of where the Church is. When smaller Churches went under the umbrella of a Metropolitan Church, it was then common to call thsoe Churches by the name of the Metropolitan Church, but still retaining their own unique Church name. And the same happened when Metropolitan Churches grouped into a Patriarchate.

In a sense you are correct if the idea is that the Roman Church is some sort of Super Patriarchate and all the other Patriarchial and sui juris Churches are just suffragans of the Roman Church. But no one is making that claim now. Every Church is equal in dignity. So to call an Eastern Catholic Church as Roman Catholic is to insinuate subordination to the Roman Church.

 

[BVMFatima]

No, the Roman Church is not the Head of the Church. Christ is the Head of the Church, and the Bishop of Rome is the visible head of the Church on Earth. Eastern Catholics are Catholic by virtue of our bishops being in communion with the Bishop of Rome. That does not necessitate calling us “Roman.” We are not Roman. We are Melkite, or Ruthenian, or Coptic, or Chaldean, and so forth. The label “Catholic” is sufficient to indicate our union with the Bishop of Rome. After all, the name of the universal Church is simply the Catholic Church, not the Roman Catholic Church.

But isent the diocese of Rome the Vatican? I didn’t know the Roman Church was a Sui Juris, because the Catechism says the Latin Church, that’s why I don’t understand this.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But isent the diocese of Rome the Vatican? I didn’t know the Roman Church was a Sui Juris, because the Catechism says the Latin Church, that’s why I don’t understand this.

Latin and Roman Church points to the same thing. Latin may speak of a wider area than Roman which is just the diocese of Rome. Also it may just be for posterity reasons so as not to confuse people. Rome still exists as a city, but none of the 3 other ancient cities of the Pentarchy still exist by name. And Jerusalem is Jerusalem, it is not like there is a wider Church of Jerusalem today.

 

[BVMFatima]

So when the Catechism mentions the Diocese of Rome, it means the Latin Church correct?

 

[ConstantineTG]

So when the Catechism mentions the Diocese of Rome, it means the Latin Church correct?

It means the Diocese of Rome, which is the Patirarchal See of the Latin Church.

Look at it from another perspective. The Patriarchal See of the UGCC is the Major Archeparchy of Kyiv-Halych. When they say “Archeparchy of Kyiv-Halych”, they just mean that eparchy, not any other eparchy. When they mean the whole Church, they say the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

 

[BVMFatima]

It means the Diocese of Rome, which is the Patirarchal See of the Latin Church.

Look at it from another perspective. The Patriarchal See of the UGCC is the Major Archeparchy of Kyiv-Halych. When they say “Archeparchy of Kyiv-Halych”, they just mean that eparchy, not any other eparchy. When they mean the whole Church, they say the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

oh okay, this help me understand! thank you

 

[Shirtless]

I am a Ukrainian (Eastern) Catholic. While the term “offended” might be a little strong, the reason I object to being called a “Roman Catholic” is that I am not one. I am a Byzantine Catholic, which is sometimes referred to as Greek Catholic.

There are five principal rites of the universal Catholic church. The largest, and most well known, is the Roman Rite, but there are other rites as well. All of them are in full communion with the apostolic see, and are united in matters of faith, but we have different liturgies and practices. For example, the Eastern rites ordain married men to the priesthood.

My favorite analogy:

Yes, I am Catholic.
No, I am not Roman Catholic.
No, I am not Orthodox.
And, #$%#$, no, Ukrainians are not Russians!

Sorry, if anybody is Russian, but if you know anything about the history of that part of the world, you will understand.

 

[LEMAITRE]

Much ado about a first world problem.

People get so wrapped up about term Roman Catholic. Sticks and stones. People need to harden up.

 

[Tradycja]

Wasn’t the word “Roman Catholic” actually created after the Anglican schism?

 

[LEMAITRE]

Wasn’t the word “Roman Catholic” actually created after the Anglican schism?

Yes it was an insulting term used by Anglicans to describe Catholics back in the day. There is strictly speaking no such thing as a ‘Roman Catholic’ hence my diatribe regarding First World problems.

 

[guanophore]

This is a question that I’ve always had and did not understand, and it is why do Eastern Catholics get offended when called Roman Catholic? Why does the term Roman Catholic only mean the Western Church?

God Bless and thank you for your time

As you might imagine, Eastern Catholics are just as devoted to their liturgies and cultural practices as Roman Catholics. All the Eastern Rites are very distinctive and have a right to preserve their liturgies and practices just as they were handed down to them from the Apostles. They are no more at liberty to change the paradosis than Latin Catholics.

The other part is that there have been a number of injuries perpetrated against the Eastern Chuch by the West, and Eastern Catholics have been wrongly compelled to conform to Latin ways in order to remain in communion. These unfortunate political pressures and misunderstandings have left many in the Eastern communion sensitive to the sometimes historically forceful directives from the West.

In order for these wounds to heal, we must respect one another’s cultural, linguistic, and liturgical differences while we all remain in unity with the successor of Peter.

One example of the ignorance and intolerance was when the Eastern Church asked for help from Rome when they were being invaded by Muslims. When the Latin Catholics arrived in Jerusalem, the appearance and manner of the Eastern Catholics were so strange to them that they slaughtered them along with the Muslims. These types of unfortunate interactions have occurred since the Roman Empire relocated from Rome to Byzantium.

 

[guanophore]

But isent the Roman Church ( The Diocese of Rome ) the Head of the Church? Dosent Roman Catholic mean a Catholic in communion with Rome?

No. “Roman” Catholic means a Catholic of the Latin Rite, which happens to be the largest of the 23 Catholic Rites in communion with the successor of Peter, and the most well known here in the West.

But isent the diocese of Rome the Vatican? I didn’t know the Roman Church was a Sui Juris, because the Catechism says the Latin Church, that’s why I don’t understand this.

Yes they are all sui juris. They function independently. If all the other Rites were wiped out, the Church Jesus founded could still be found wholly in each of them.

I doubt there would be such carelessness about respecting the differences if it were the Latin Catholics that were being pressured to conform to any of the other Rites!

 

[Vico]

But isent the diocese of Rome the Vatican? I didn’t know the Roman Church was a Sui Juris, because the Catechism says the Latin Church, that’s why I don’t understand this.

Sui iuris means “of their own right”. This term applies to all twenty three ritual Catholic Churches. One belongs to only one of these. In the Latin Canon law there is:

Can. 111
§1. Through the reception of baptism a child becomes a member of the Latin Church if the parents belong to that Church or, should one of them not belong to it, if they have both by common consent chosen that the child be baptized in the Latin Church: if that common consent is lacking, the child becomes a member of the ritual Church to which the father belongs.
§2. Any candidate for baptism who has completed the fourteenth year of age may freely choose to be baptized either in the Latin Church or in another autonomous ritual Church; in which case the person belongs to the Church which he or she has chosen.

 

[Peter_J]

This is a question that I’ve always had and did not understand, and it is why do Eastern Catholics get offended when called Roman Catholic? Why does the term Roman Catholic only mean the Western Church?

God Bless and thank you for your time

One thing that complicates all this is that people often mix up church and rite.

The Roman Rite is one of the rites of the Latin Church (the dominant one as a matter of fact – many Catholics haven’t even heard of the other Western Rites, e.g. the Ambrosian Rite); but you’ll often hear people speak of the “Latin Rite” and the “Roman Church”.