Eastern Catholics celebrating Divine Mercy Sunday?

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Is ‘fetish of liturgical practice’ another way of saying ‘devotion to one’s Patristic Tradition, as handed on to them by the Apostles’? If so, yes, every Catholic should have such ‘fetish’ as Vatican 2 expressed in Ecumenical Council, and numerous Popes - including St. JP2 - have repeatedly stated.
This phrase in particular, “fetish of liturgical practice,” is the only thing in the thread that really upsets me. Usually it’s used by non-traditional Catholics to shut down criticism by more traditional Catholics of the new Mass.
 
This phrase in particular, “fetish of liturgical practice,” is the only thing in the thread that really upsets me. Usually it’s used by non-traditional Catholics to shut down criticism by more traditional Catholics of the new Mass.
They use that exact wording too? That’s interesting either way.

I actually come to the term from my somewhat recent experience debating with anti-Catholic Protestants. It occurred to me that many actually make a fetish out of the Bible–although before today I believe I’ve always used the term idol. This is brought into a larger question about what is idolatry, really? If idols are only figments of own imagination then what does it mean to worship them instead of God? And what does it mean in this light to worship God? Is the person who rejects the sacraments really in a relationship with Jesus?

All of us have false beliefs. One thing that surprised me when I converted to Catholicism (from a secular scientism) is what faith actually is. There is no easy way to describe it because while it is like a sense, it is not a sense, since the senses make contact with the natural world and faith does not. Nevertheless what we know through our “sense” of faith we know in exactly the same way that we know what we’ve seen through sight and heard through our hearing. When St. Paul says we walk by faith and not by sight he doesn’t mean we privilege our mere beliefs over the evidences of our senses, but rather that we have a sense that gives us a perspective on the totality of reality.

Nonetheless even with our physical senses our experiences don’t necessarily mean we have correct beliefs. How many people a day pull out into oncoming traffic because although they looked and therefore must have seen it they didn’t actually register that that another car already occupied the lane? In other words the believed the lane was open. Although if they looked again perhaps they would then see the other car. Likewise,faith doesn’t guarantee that we hold correct beliefs, although repeated experience of supranatural reality through the sacraments does have the tendency to align our beliefs with reality over time. When you combine this with guidance given by saints and the magisterium of the Church our sense of faith can become a true compass.

Even still no one on this side of death has beliefs that perfectly line up with reality, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that we are all idolaters either. For one thing Christianity isn’t even really about one’s beliefs so much as it the encounter of a person through faith and the sacraments. It is an experiential form of knowing, and what we know is the living God.

This experience however seems to happen a lot less frequency than one might expect in the Church–certainly less than I expected–and in all those other cases instead of relationship with the very source of Being, itself, one has the gods of their own invention.

Also I hesitate to use the word traditional when speaking of Catholicism as the word is being used in two different ways and a fallacy of equivocation often results.Traditionalism is a form of modernism and has noting to do with respecting the Church’s traditions–although it is confusing because there is often significant overlap by happenstance. They are simply on the other side of the modernist coin from progressivism. They both are predicated upon Utopian schemes. One is straightforward projection into the future while the other is attempt regain an imagined past 'golden age" paradoxically in the future.

I guess my point is that the only way of escaping idolatry is through faith. that is through an actual experiential relationship with Christ, and it is no surprise then that fetishes are so prevalent. It is easier to have a “relationship” with an idol then an person because the former doesn’t require one to pick up their own cross, which is the promise we make when accepting communion.

This goes back to everything illustrated in the above back and forth. The perennial choice for mankind is between self-indulgence and self-sacrifice. Christianity is really simple when you get down to it. It is about love, but not love as the world understands it as mere sentiment predicated upon self-indulgent desires (which can take the form of liturgy) but an act of will that is predicated upon self-sacrifice. Speaking for myself I realize how fervently I resist the later as if goes against every instinct of my body. It is easy to deceive ourselves into deciding upon the former in terms that make us believe we are choosing the later.
 
It is about love, but not love as the world understands it as mere sentiment predicated upon self-indulgent desires (which can take the form of liturgy) but an act of will that is predicated upon self-sacrifice. Speaking for myself I realize how fervently I resist the later as if goes against every instinct of my body.
Is it loving to tell another how they and their community ‘must’ sacrifice according to your terms? It seems to me, you are taking your experience and imposing this on another. That is not loving or charitable. The Lord never forces Himself upon individuals. He seeks lovingly as the Good Shepard, not in a dictatorial manner.
It is easy to deceive ourselves into deciding upon the former in terms that make us believe we are choosing the later.
It sure is. It’s especially true for reverts and converts, in my experience, as fervour sometimes turns into fundamentalism. One protestant trait that Catholicism has condemned since the beginning, is the unnatural ‘sola’. The Church doesn’t add any ‘sola’ that wasn’t specifically mentioned or taught by Christ and transmitted to us today through His Apostles.

‘Sola Scriptura’, ‘Sola Fide’, ‘Sola this-or-that-devotion’ are all man-made constructs.
 
Is it loving to tell another how they and their community ‘must’ sacrifice according to your terms? It seems to me, you are taking your experience and imposing this on another. That is not loving or charitable. The Lord never forces Himself upon individuals. He seeks lovingly as the Good Shepard, not in a dictatorial manner.
It sure is. It’s especially true for reverts and converts, in my experience, as fervour sometimes turns into fundamentalism. One protestant trait that Catholicism has condemned since the beginning, is the unnatural ‘sola’. The Church doesn’t add any ‘sola’ that wasn’t specifically mentioned or taught by Christ and transmitted to us today through His Apostles.

‘Sola Scriptura’, ‘Sola Fide’, ‘Sola this-or-that-devotion’ are all man-made constructs.
You can level all the fallacious quips and naked assertions at me as you would like, I am not going to respond to them. However on the off chance that you do this simply because you really don’t understand what good reasoning is I would like to suggest to you Douglas Walton’s Informal Logic: A Pragmatic Approach. I believe it’s an exceptional introduction to informal reasoning–certainly one of the better ones I’ve come across.
 
You can level all the fallacious quips and naked assertions at me as you would like, I am not going to respond to them. However on the off chance that you do this simply because you really don’t understand what good reasoning is I would like to suggest to you Douglas Walton’s Informal Logic: A Pragmatic Approach. I believe it’s an exceptional introduction to informal reasoning–certainly one of the better ones I’ve come across.
You mean “fallacious quips and naked assertions” like all our hierarchs in full Communion with Rome are actually secretly protestant? I suggest you get off the high horse and accept that your original demeanor and approach was inappropriate and that the entire episode is distasteful. Now, did you start promoting Our Lady of Damascus among your confreres in the mean time?

Also, since you like to recommend light reading, I will suggest you read the following:
amazon.com/Catholicism-Dummies-Rev-John-Trigilio/dp/1118077784
 
You mean “fallacious quips and naked assertions” like all our hierarchs in full Communion with Rome are actually secretly protestant? I suggest you get off the high horse and accept that your original demeanor and approach was inappropriate and that the entire episode is distasteful. Now, did you start promoting Our Lady of Damascus among your confreres in the mean time?

Also, since you like to recommend light reading, I will suggest you read the following:
amazon.com/Catholicism-Dummies-Rev-John-Trigilio/dp/1118077784
I’ll admit you’ve goaded me into responding–at least one more time–largely because I am so disappointed that you would recommend Catholicism for Dummies to anyone. If I would stoop down to your level of argumentation I might now say something like, perhaps this is where you came to your own catechesis of the faith. I think much better introductions would include books like The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults or Anthony M. Coniaris’ Introducing the Orthodox Chruch: Its Faith and Its Life (it is true that this is a book for the introduction to Orthodoxy, but it states very little that would not be of benefit to a Catholic especially as an introduction to the theological emphasis of the Byzantine Churches). I’ve also personally benefited from books like Early Syriac Theology by Chorbishop Seely Joseph Beggaiani and The Melkites at the Vatican Council II by Fr. Saba Shofany–of course this latter book presupposes one is familiar with the general themes and source documents of Vatican II and numerous other more specialized books that all already presuppose a more basic understanding of the faith. Nevertheless even general books on Catholic History like Christopher M Bellitto’s The General Councils: A History of the Twenty-One Church Councils from Nicaea to Vatican II or books for people with a background in literature like Alison Milbank’s Chesterton and Tolkien As Theologians: the Fantasy of the Real-or speaking of Cheston’s and going back to a more basic introduction his wonderful book on apologetics, Orthodoxy, and its companion, Heritics. All of these books which are some of the first one’s that have come to mind (there were many more and, do doubt some that would have been more appropriate if I were to deliberate upon it)–would be books I recommend to anyone before I would recommend Catholicism For Dummies.

Now since I am responding, what you ask me to accept I’ve in fact long already conceded, and as for our Lady of Damascus–despite that this is an apples to oranges comparison if you are indeed comparing it to the Divine Mercy in terms of its universal benefit for the whole Church (which only shows you that your argument stems from you own assumptions which are predicated on an ignorance of the actual devotion)–the promotion of this might very well be a consequence of a more universal practice of the Divine Mercy. It certainly is of interest to me personally, as is relentlessly advocating that all Latin rite Catholics have a better understanding of the 6 liturgical traditions and the 23 other autonomous Churches which, in fact, make up our Catholic Church. So I will say again I really believe and am asserting that if anything the Divine Mercy moves the Latin Church closer to the East and not the other way around. If you could put down the irrational rage that the veracity of your response suggests you feel then what you might find is that this practice in the Eastern Churches may function like a vacuum that draws the Latin Church closer to you and not vice-versa. In any event you certainly are arguing like a person in a bad marriage who can’t overcome their resentments long enough to even hear the other party out much less save the relationship. This again just goes in support to the fact that you really don’t seem to understand that you have already committed in your comments to support what, in fact, I am advocating for–it appears you are stuck in your negative visceral reaction to my original tone and in so doing have entirely failed to comprehend that your supposed criticism–where they aren’t just fallacious quips aimed at strawman version of my statements–actually support my content. Content which you confusedly believe you oppose, but if I take what you say seriously you cannot in reality without contradiction.

Again I wish you peace.

P.S. you keep talking to me as if I were a Latin rite Catholic. This is technically true but only by default. I spend almost as much time in the Syriac Liturgy as I do in the Latin Liturgy but really feel most akin to Byzantine Liturgy which is only infrequently available to me through a mission. Changing rites therefor or having to have been able to enter the Church through my most comfortable rite was just not possible.
 
You keep asserting that the Divine Mercy Sunday draws Latins closer to the East. If so, how?

Why not have the Latin Church adopt Thomas Sunday as the Byzantines? Or do as the Syriacs “2 Sunday of Qyamtho”?

How is adopting a title foreign to Eastern sensibilities, and unknown to any of the sister Eastern non-Catholic Churches going to foster unity with the East (even among the Catholic and non-Catholic Churches of the same Patristic Tradition, this would foster further disunity, since it would be divergence from the common calendar)?

You keep stating that it is so, but haven’t stated how it is so. Your feeling not withstanding, you haven’t proven your hypothesis.

… and I have no rage, anger, anti-Latin resentment, distrust, liturgical fetishism, cultural fetishism or any another baseless assertion you keep foisting on me and others on this forum.

If you are serious about reading various Patristic Traditions in light of each Church’s authentic Apostolic teaching - without inserting your own flavor - here is some better reading:
Shorter Catechism of the Syriac Church by HH the late Patriarch Ignatius Ephrem I (1912):
stmaryscathedral.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58&Itemid=66&f6033fa2e0dc389cd22214523083efcf=f74b8fa1f22184d219622a347cf0150d

Compilation:
malankaraorthodoxtv.in/Books/mosc%20books.htm

For English books on Malankara Syriac spirituality, search for writings of Blessed Mar Ivanios of Bethany… regarding the “Imitation of Christ”:
lightoflife.com/LOL_Arch_ArchBishop_Ivanios.htm

bethanyashram.com/BooksList.aspx

seeri.org/Publications.html

gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/c-7-syriac.aspx

Some offerings from our Syriac Orthodox brothers:

syrianorthodoxchurch.org/store
syrorthodoxchurch.com/english-Dateien/books.html

The Harp from the Malankara Syriac Catholic Church:
gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/pc-58578-7-samuel-v-c-geevarghese-panicker-and-jakob-thekeparampil-the-harp-volume-2.aspx
 
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