Eastern Catholics "forced" and "bribed" into communion with the RCC

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I do not believe it possible to have forced this communion with Rome given that it would have been very easy for the People and Priest of the Eastern Catholic Rite Church to follow with the Orthodox if they had chosen to do so. Why some churches in the East stayed in the Catholic faith when the other did not I do not know. Other than to say that the Holy Spirit must have Guided the Bishops of Those Churches not to fall into schism.
I am serious.
Thank you for answering.

I know that the claim is made that a few Eastern Catholics Churches (the Maronites being one of the most obvious examples) were always in communion with Rome – and thus didn’t choose to leave Orthodoxy and enter into communion with Rome, but rather to remain in communion with Rome. But your the first person I have heard make this claim about Eastern Catholics in general.
 
Thank you for answering.

I know that the claim is made that a few Eastern Catholics Churches (the Maronites being one of the most obvious examples) were always in communion with Rome – and thus didn’t choose to leave Orthodoxy and enter into communion with Rome, but rather to remain in communion with Rome. But your the first person I have heard make this claim about Eastern Catholics in general.
I did not mean to imply that all just stayed from the beginning, Just that I really don’t see how they could be forced one way or the other.
As I said earlier I think that the Protestant reformation shows that It is nearly impossible to force unity or separation for that matter. It is My stance that the Eastern Catholic churches are Catholic ( In communion with the Holy See of Roman) because they either chose not to join in the Schism or sometime later they chose to reunite with Rome. Not that they were forced.
 
I did not mean to imply that all just stayed from the beginning, Just that I really don’t see how they could be forced one way or the other.
As I said earlier I think that the Protestant reformation shows that It is nearly impossible to force unity or separation for that matter. It is My stance that the Eastern Catholic churches are Catholic ( In communion with the Holy See of Roman) because they either chose not to join in the Schism or sometime later they chose to reunite with Rome. Not that they were forced.
It took some time, but after the Union of Uzhorod the Orthodox church was banned. The churches were all Greek Catholic.
 
It took some time, but after the Union of Uzhorod the Orthodox church was banned. The churches were all Greek Catholic.
Which then last how long before a new window of opportunity arose (or pressure was exerted) for a change of state? As borders shifted, so did fortunes.

In the end, what I object to is a need on the part of some polemicists to depict the unia as as having no explination besides force or expedience, and as a result today we are just the descendents of dupes.
 
Eastern Catholics “forced” and “bribed” into communion with the RCC
lol

Yes, I’m being held against my will, save me! The RCC has me here in a dungeon and has locked me out, help! :whacky:

Silly threads for silly people! 😃

God bless,

Rony
 
Where are my Western Ukrainian brethren? Surely they don’t stand for such none sene. Always Catholic, always faithful.

St. Josaphat,
pray for us.
 
Here is a quote that came to me from an Eastern Orthodox poster. Is this how Eastern Catholics view themselves? And if so, why do they remain in communion with the Roman Catholic Church?
Having learned quite a bit about the history of the Eastern Catholic Churches and how then came into communion with Rome I would have to conclude that this is entirely a slur that is completely unfounded.

On top of that, in opposition to the claims and perceptions of many Eastern Orthodox, some of the Eastern Catholic Churches represent the authentic continuation of the true heirarchy of the Church and the Church not in communion with Rome represent a rebellous schism that left their own Church to avoid communion with Rome.

The Chaldean Catholic Church has a particualarly interesting history in two parts so I will not get into it as it will take too long.

The Syriac Catholic Church represents the Actual Legitimate Church leadership of that Church coming into Communion with Rome and the current Syraic Orthodox Church was only formed afterwards by a breakaway bishop. The true continuation of this Church is with the Catholic Church.

The Melchite Catholic Church likewise came into communion with Rome by the action of the Church leadership and the current Byzantine Rite Patriarch of Antioch of the Eastern Orthodox Church is a recreated Church to fill in the whole in Orthodoxy that was left.

The history of the Syro Churches in India is an amazing story that takes a long time to get all the facts straight. It is a bit of History that is well worth your time to look into. The final conclusion that you must come to is that the Syro Malabar Church is the legitimate continuation of the Church that was originally in India and the others are in schism. Of the ones in schism, one church of believers who had changed from the Assyrian Church to the Oriental Orthodox communion came back into communion with Rome by the action of the leadership. That is the Syro Malankara Church. The leadership later repudiated the Union but the Reunion had already taken place and the Church remains in communion with Rome to this day. At the very least this church is half and half depending on opinion.

Again, in the case of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, as well as several other of the Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches, it was the decision of the Legitimate Church leadership that made the move to come into communion with Rome. In the case of at least one and if you count the one in Italy then two, of Byzantine Rite Catholic Chuches are in communion with Rome simply because they refused to follow the other “Orthodox” churches out of communion or just didn’t know about the schism.

The Armenian Catholic Church represents actually a completely different Church from the Armenian Apostalic Church from a different country though the same ethnic group. Neither is in schism with the other. The Armenian Catholic Church came into communion with Rome by the Action of the leadership and so all Armenians of its area are are at least were Catholic until the Armenians from the Armenian Apostolic Church moved into their part of the world.

Now the Catholic Church does have some holes. The legitimate leadership of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not in communion with Rome. The Legitimate leadership of the Greek Orthdox Church in Greece and the Slavonic Orthodox Church in Russia is not in communion with Rome. In these areas, Catholics are interlopers so to speak. In Egypt, the legitimate leadership of the original Church rest with the Coptic Orthodox Church and not with either the Catholic patriarch in the area nor with the Byzantine patriarch in the area.

Considering that the Church in Jerusalem stopped existing after the Muslim conquest (because the muslims cut off all their heads to the last man, woman and child) we can say that the original church there died off. When the Crusades brought Christians back into Jerusalem it was the Latin Church that reestablished Christianity so we can say that the Latin Church is the current oldest church in Jerusalem, though Antioch does have a bit of a claim when these fact are not given any waight. Thus it can be concluded that the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem is the current original Christian head of the Church there, and if you go to Antioch, all three possible original Churches of Antioch are in communion with Rome.
 
St Josaphat pray for us.
Is this the guy you all pray to when ever you need to build up strength to stay out from under the legitimate authority of Rome? If it is then you need to stop putting that up. If this Josaphat is in heaven, then he already knows that Rome is right and it he is praying for you up there, then he is praying that you see that so that all Christians can follow the command of Christ to be one.
 
Is this the guy you all pray to when ever you need to build up strength to stay out from under the legitimate authority of Rome? If it is then you need to stop putting that up. If this Josaphat is in heaven, then he already knows that Rome is right and it he is praying for you up there, then he is praying that you see that so that all Christians can follow the command of Christ to be one.
Excuse me? St. Josaphat is a Catholic Martyr for unity between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Church! He is even on the Roman Calendar, on November 12th.

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=71

A little more respect is due to Eastern Catholics here, and a bit more understanding by Catholics of our own Church and our Saints.

Peace and God bless!
 
Is this the guy you all pray to when ever you need to build up strength to stay out from under the legitimate authority of Rome? If it is then you need to stop putting that up. If this Josaphat is in heaven, then he already knows that Rome is right and it he is praying for you up there, then he is praying that you see that so that all Christians can follow the command of Christ to be one.
Actually, some sources(feel free to believe them or not) say he had the graves of those who refused to accept the Unia dug up and the bodies thrown to the dogs! :eek:

I hope I don’t get in trouble for mentioning this, the information is out there, it’s well known how controversial a figure he was! 😦
 
I’ve read that St. Josaphat’s body is incorruptible. Some info. here:

Since 1963, his incorrupt body lies under the altar of Saint Basil, in the Vatican Basilica of St. Peter’s.​

Also listed in Wiki under the topic: Incorruptibility

Pretty cool 👍

God bless,

Rony
 
Is this the guy you all pray to when ever you need to build up strength to stay out from under the legitimate authority of Rome? If it is then you need to stop putting that up. If this Josaphat is in heaven, then he already knows that Rome is right and it he is praying for you up there, then he is praying that you see that so that all Christians can follow the command of Christ to be one.
This is my nominee for the Triumphal post of the month.
 
I’ve read that St. Josaphat’s body is incorruptible. Some info. here:

Since 1963, his incorrupt body lies under the altar of Saint Basil, in the Vatican Basilica of St. Peter’s.​

Also listed in Wiki under the topic: Incorruptibility

Pretty cool 👍

God bless,

Rony
I had the honour of praying before his tomb just a week ago. He is also the saint that I choose for confirmation. A true example for all Ukrainian Catholics.
 
Actually, some sources(feel free to believe them or not) say he had the graves of those who refused to accept the Unia dug up and the bodies thrown to the dogs! :eek:

I hope I don’t get in trouble for mentioning this, the information is out there, it’s well known how controversial a figure he was! 😦
Nicholas are you familiar with weasel words?
The vagueness of a statement may disguise the validity or the aim of that statement. Generalizing by means of quantifiers, such as “many” or “better”, as well as the passive voice (“it has been decided”) conceal the full picture. In this way, one may evade responsibility for what may be inferred.
Non sequitur statements are often used in advertising to make it appear that the statement is a sales point:
  • “People say…” (Which people?)
  • “I heard that…” (Who told you? Is the source reliable?)
  • “There is evidence that…” (What evidence? Is the source reliable?)
  • “Experience shows that…” (Whose experience? What was the experience? How does it demonstrate this?)
  • “It has been decided that…” (Who decided this?)
  • “It has been mentioned that…” (Who mentioned it?)
  • “Popular wisdom has it that…” (Is it actually popular wisdom?)
  • “It is known that…” (By whom is it known?)
There are some generalizations which are considered unacceptable in writing. This category embraces what is termed a “semantic cop-out”, represented by the term allegedly.
If you dig only a wee bit deeper (certainly not so deep as Saint Josaphat is alleged to have dug to unearth corpses to feed to dogs!) you can find even worse stories about this “vile uniate” who probably had horns under his mitre and feasted on kittens.

Casual mention of “it has been said” type comments doesn’t absolve you of propogating likely untrue and hateful polemics.

Please endeavor to do better than that. It is just embarassing to watch folks make a case through contradistinctive intimations.

The topic of the thread - by and large geared toward understanding the legitimacy of our unias does NOT lend itself to such intimations of horror stories. One wonders why you feel compelled to bring it up.
 
Excuse me? St. Josaphat is a Catholic Martyr for unity between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Church! He is even on the Roman Calendar, on November 12th.

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=71

A little more respect is due to Eastern Catholics here, and a bit more understanding by Catholics of our own Church and our Saints.

Peace and God bless!
Ahh, I see my error. However, there is this one guy that Orthodox posters love to throw up from time to time who was violently against any sort of communtion or even communication with Rome. I suppose that I have seen that just too many times and I had a knee jerk reaction. Sorry.
 
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