L
Little_Boy_Lost
Guest
I’m curious, what do ya’ll think about this apparition/phenomena? Being as it is in Eastern Europe how do Eastern Catholics of the Balklands view it vs. their Roman Catholic brethren?
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C
ciero
Guest
It has been condemned by Rome and the bishops…so what bearing does this have on anything? Also it is a Roman Catholic abomination, it has nothing to do with the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox.
B
Biedrik
Guest
I do not recall any statement from Rome denouncing the apparitions. Where exactly did you see a statement on this topic?
C
ciero
Guest
Rome has stood by the statement of the local bishop…denouncing the apparitions and the messages.
D
Domnall
Guest
Hm, well…I don’t know what the Eastern position is on it per se. Though, the Melkite Cathedral in Boston invited one of the people who supposedly witnessed the apparition to come and speak about his experience. This was back in January I believe…
Don’t know what to make of that.
Don’t know what to make of that.
K
kitkatty
Guest
It does not have the approval of the local Bishop so I can`t see Rome endorsing it.
B
Biedrik
Guest
When has it said that? From my knowledge of events, Rome has set up an investigation headed by Cardinal Ruini. As of yet, no statement has been made, unless of course you can produce a statement to the contrary.
A
Aramis
Guest
Unless and until a local bishop approves an apparition, no other bishop in his right mind will do so… neither catholic nor orthodox!
And unapproved apparitions used to be off limits at CAF…
And unapproved apparitions used to be off limits at CAF…
L
Little_Boy_Lost
Guest
My friend said that… but then that could mean anything right? Coptic Apparitions aren’t endorsed by the catholic church, and many of the myrrh bearing Icons of Eastern Orthodoxy would be off limits to discussion as well…
I just wanted to hear what fellow Eastern Catholics thought of the allegations around this apparition.
5
5Loaves
Guest
Until the alleged apparitions cease, and they continue according to the witnesses, Rome won’t make any determination. That’s the process. Rome has said that there may be no official “pilgrimages” led to Medjugorje by Catholics. I haven’t heard of any other restrictions.
A parishioner in my Latin parish published a book last year: : Miraculous Stories of Healing and Conversion through Mary’s IntercessionFull of Grace documenting the stories of some who went to Medjugorje and then had great transformations in their personal lives.
I’m so not Latin when it comes to these things, although I give thanks any time the Grace of God breaks into the lives of individuals and it clearly has for many who travel to Medjugorje.
A parishioner in my Latin parish published a book last year: : Miraculous Stories of Healing and Conversion through Mary’s IntercessionFull of Grace documenting the stories of some who went to Medjugorje and then had great transformations in their personal lives.
I’m so not Latin when it comes to these things, although I give thanks any time the Grace of God breaks into the lives of individuals and it clearly has for many who travel to Medjugorje.
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Friends,
The Medjugorje Shrine is the largest non-approved Marian shrine in the world. Catholics do go there and are not forbidden from going there, no matter what local authorities may or may not say.
Pope Benedict is having this investigated and the expectation is that it will be formally approved. The Pope did the same thing with the shrine of Our Lady of Laus in France and approved those apparitions (although when it was not yet approved by the Church, Our Lady of Laus shrine is second only to Lourdes in France as the most frequently visited shrine and still is - the Ven. Benoite Rencurel saw our Lady for 50+ years daily).
There are many UGCCers I know who have gone there and I know UGCC priests who are privately devoted to Medjugorje.
It is interesting that the apparitions there have told the seers that Catholics should fast on “Wednesdays and Fridays” rather than on Saturdays - which is the ancient weekly fast that was once observed universally and is still observed in the Christian East.
In addition, the apparitions there have constantly referred to Orthodox Russia as the place where the Mother of God will be most glorified . . .
Relatives brought me a rosary from Medjugorje made of pebbles from the area around the apparitions. Personally, I don’t see anything negative about it (quite the contrary).
Eastern Catholics go to Lourdes, Russian Catholics (who really are the “most Orthodox EC Church”) venerate Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe is honoured by EC’s and EO’s - what is wrong with Medjugorje, once it is officially approved by Rome?
Let’s just calm down and take a deep breath, O Defenders of Orthodoxy!
Alex
The Medjugorje Shrine is the largest non-approved Marian shrine in the world. Catholics do go there and are not forbidden from going there, no matter what local authorities may or may not say.
Pope Benedict is having this investigated and the expectation is that it will be formally approved. The Pope did the same thing with the shrine of Our Lady of Laus in France and approved those apparitions (although when it was not yet approved by the Church, Our Lady of Laus shrine is second only to Lourdes in France as the most frequently visited shrine and still is - the Ven. Benoite Rencurel saw our Lady for 50+ years daily).
There are many UGCCers I know who have gone there and I know UGCC priests who are privately devoted to Medjugorje.
It is interesting that the apparitions there have told the seers that Catholics should fast on “Wednesdays and Fridays” rather than on Saturdays - which is the ancient weekly fast that was once observed universally and is still observed in the Christian East.
In addition, the apparitions there have constantly referred to Orthodox Russia as the place where the Mother of God will be most glorified . . .
Relatives brought me a rosary from Medjugorje made of pebbles from the area around the apparitions. Personally, I don’t see anything negative about it (quite the contrary).
Eastern Catholics go to Lourdes, Russian Catholics (who really are the “most Orthodox EC Church”) venerate Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe is honoured by EC’s and EO’s - what is wrong with Medjugorje, once it is officially approved by Rome?
Let’s just calm down and take a deep breath, O Defenders of Orthodoxy!
Alex
C
Cristiano
Guest
I think that you are being harsh and contradicting yourself. First you say that is condemned by Rome and the Bishops, then you say that it is a Roman Catholic abomination. Please pick one of the two and stay with it.
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
Perhaps we may all collaborate on a letter of recommendation to an Orthodox bishop of Ciero’s choice to see if he would receive him into Orthodoxy?
No? Well, you can’t blame me for trying . . .
Alex
No? Well, you can’t blame me for trying . . .
Alex
S
smad0142
Guest
Alex,
What makes you think Rome will approve it?
What makes you think Rome will approve it?
S
smad0142
Guest
“All religions are dear to my son.”
(Please mods leave this up, there is nowhere else to get an answer to this)
I believe the rest of the Apparition’s statements can be made to conform with Catholic doctrine. But what about the above sentence? Later on in the message it talks about how all religions are not equal, but still the message begins thus. How is this true? Especially with religions that blasphem Christ or His Mother, or who worship satan?
(Please mods leave this up, there is nowhere else to get an answer to this)
I believe the rest of the Apparition’s statements can be made to conform with Catholic doctrine. But what about the above sentence? Later on in the message it talks about how all religions are not equal, but still the message begins thus. How is this true? Especially with religions that blasphem Christ or His Mother, or who worship satan?
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
Certainly, it is up to the Church to pronounce on Medjugorje, but the Virgin Mary herself does not discriminate against people on the basis of their religion.
When she appeared at Zeitun, not only did Catholics and Orthodox glorify her, but so did many Evangelical Protestants, including their leaders, who came to praise the Virgin Mary (oops, perhaps they forgot about their usual “it’s not in the Bible” condemnation of such devotion!
).
And many Muslims came out to honour the Mother of Jesus, rolling carpets onto the sand for purposes of prayer.
There are Marian shrines where Hindus and Buddhists attend. Jews, too, have received blessings from the Mother of Zion (take for example, the author of the book “The Song of Bernadette”).
So all these people of other faiths are dear to the Virgin Mary and to her Son, since He died for them as well as for you and me.
If the Mother of Christ our God prays for them and wants to draw them to herself and, through her, to her Son - then who are we to accuse her of bad theology?
Alex
When she appeared at Zeitun, not only did Catholics and Orthodox glorify her, but so did many Evangelical Protestants, including their leaders, who came to praise the Virgin Mary (oops, perhaps they forgot about their usual “it’s not in the Bible” condemnation of such devotion!
).And many Muslims came out to honour the Mother of Jesus, rolling carpets onto the sand for purposes of prayer.
There are Marian shrines where Hindus and Buddhists attend. Jews, too, have received blessings from the Mother of Zion (take for example, the author of the book “The Song of Bernadette”).
So all these people of other faiths are dear to the Virgin Mary and to her Son, since He died for them as well as for you and me.
If the Mother of Christ our God prays for them and wants to draw them to herself and, through her, to her Son - then who are we to accuse her of bad theology?
Alex
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
Vox populi - Vox Dei
S
smad0142
Guest
I am not talking about the follows of a religion. I am talking how she said all religions, which are a theological constract, are dear to her Son. How is this possible with some of the examples I cited above?
And does the Vox Populi principle still hold when there is also a great number of Catholics holding a different idea about the Apparition?
And does the Vox Populi principle still hold when there is also a great number of Catholics holding a different idea about the Apparition?
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
All religions, apart from Christ, are imperfect. They are an imperfect outreach toward God among peoples who have yet to come to the Light that is without beginning.
As St Paul found in the Acts of the Apostles, God speaks to all peoples and witholds His love from none of them.
St Augustine of Hippo referred to the pagan Greek philosophers as “knowing the Catholic religion.”
Without assuming what my brother Pontiff of Elder Rome shall say in his own assessment of the apparition, I would humbly submit to you, my son, that this statement refers to the fact that people reach out to the Lord imperfectly and it is the Lord who responds by completing that which is imperfect by His Grace.
And I’ve yet to meet Catholics who are against the message and spirituality of Medjugorje (except those who are equally against asceticism, self-mortification, the rosary, fasting etc.). Then again, I would stay away from such “Catholics” - I do hope you heed my words, my son.
+Alexios
As St Paul found in the Acts of the Apostles, God speaks to all peoples and witholds His love from none of them.
St Augustine of Hippo referred to the pagan Greek philosophers as “knowing the Catholic religion.”
Without assuming what my brother Pontiff of Elder Rome shall say in his own assessment of the apparition, I would humbly submit to you, my son, that this statement refers to the fact that people reach out to the Lord imperfectly and it is the Lord who responds by completing that which is imperfect by His Grace.
And I’ve yet to meet Catholics who are against the message and spirituality of Medjugorje (except those who are equally against asceticism, self-mortification, the rosary, fasting etc.). Then again, I would stay away from such “Catholics” - I do hope you heed my words, my son.
+Alexios
S
smad0142
Guest
Alex,
I’ve been thinking about your answer regarding how all religions can be dear. But that still does not answer for groups like Satanists, and since the Apparition never explains that religion is restricted to those seeking God, i.e. Good, it could be argued that the word religion would include satanists. What say you, Patriarch of Western Canada?
I’ve been thinking about your answer regarding how all religions can be dear. But that still does not answer for groups like Satanists, and since the Apparition never explains that religion is restricted to those seeking God, i.e. Good, it could be argued that the word religion would include satanists. What say you, Patriarch of Western Canada?
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