Eastern Catholics & Real Presence

[Merrick]

I’ve heard that Eastern Catholics still refer to the Body and Blood in the Sacrament as bread and wine sometimes and in the liturgy? Is this true?

I don’t have a problem affirming change in the bread and wine or that it is the body and blood but I am very uncomfortable when people say the bread and wine are annihilated or cease to exist. This does not seem right, not how God treats the creation He loves. If there is not a thingness we can call bread and a thingness we can call wine, in the Incarnation why can we not say that the humanity was transformed into God and only the accidents remained? It would be the same concept.

How do the Eastern Catholics view this?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’ve heard that Eastern Catholics still refer to the Body and Blood in the Sacrament as bread and wine sometimes and in the liturgy? Is this true?

I don’t have a problem affirming change in the bread and wine or that it is the body and blood but I am very uncomfortable when people say the bread and wine are annihilated or cease to exist. This does not seem right, not how God treats the creation He loves. If there is not a thingness we can call bread and a thingness we can call wine, in the Incarnation why can we not say that the humanity was transformed into God and only the accidents remained? It would be the same concept.

How do the Eastern Catholics view this?

I’m really not sure what you are trying to say, but Eastern Catholics surely believe in the Real Presence.

In Byzantine tradition, a prayer is recited by the faithful before the Eucharist, in which this belief is affirmed.

“O Lord, I believe and profess that this which I am about to receive is truly Your most precious Body and life-giving Blood, which I pray make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting. Amen!”

 

[Mark1124]

I’ve heard that Eastern Catholics still refer to the Body and Blood in the Sacrament as bread and wine sometimes and in the liturgy? Is this true?

I don’t know about Eastern Catholics, but it’s certainly true of Roman Catholics: “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again.”

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I don’t know about Eastern Catholics, but it’s certainly true of Roman Catholics: “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again.”

Mark, we are Catholic, which means we share the same faith.

 

[Micosil]

I don’t know about Eastern Catholics, but it’s certainly true of Roman Catholics: “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again.”

Eastern Catholics and Latin Catholics make up the Catholic Church, that share the one, same Deposit of Faith – the Real Presence is part of this Deposit of Faith, so Eastern Catholics also believe in it.

 

[Mark1124]

Eastern Catholics and Latin Catholics make up the Catholic Church, that share the one, same Deposit of Faith – the Real Presence is part of this Deposit of Faith, so Eastern Catholics also believe in it.

Of course, I wasn’t disagreeing with that. The question I was responding to was about whether Eastern Catholics refer to the Body of Christ as bread in their liturgy, and I do not know whether they do or not, but I know that Roman Catholics do.

 

[JRS_88]

In the Maronite Divine Liturgy:

Cel: Hear us O Lord, Hear us O Lord, Hear us O Lord
And may Your Living Holy Spirit come and rest upon this offering.

(The priest kisses the altar)

The “Kyrie eleison” is sung

Cel: (making the Sign of The Cross over the Mysteries)
That by his descent he may make this bread the Body of Christ our God.

Cong: Amen

Cel: And make the mixture in this chalice (celebrant makes the Sign of The Cross) the Blood of Christ our God.

Cong: Amen.​

This is but one instance of referring to the “bread” and “wine”.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Of course, I wasn’t disagreeing with that. The question I was responding to was about whether Eastern Catholics refer to the Body of Christ as bread in their liturgy, and I do not know whether they do or not, but I know that Roman Catholics do.

The Eucharistic Prayers used across traditions all refer to the gifts of bread and wine that become for us the Body and Blood. That said, after the Epiklesis, there is only the Eucharist.

 

[Mark1124]

The Eucharistic Prayers used across traditions all refer to the gifts of bread and wine that become for us the Body and Blood. That said, after the Epiklesis, there is only the Eucharist.

After the Epiclesis and words of consecration, there is only the Eucharist, but in the Mystery of Faith (quoting St. Paul) we still call it bread: “When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your Death, O Lord, until you come again.”

 

[JRS_88]

After the Epiclesis and words of consecration, there is only the Eucharist, but in the Mystery of Faith (quoting St. Paul) we still call it bread: “When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your Death, O Lord, until you come again.”

I thought ByzCathCantor already addressed this by writing out what is said in their Divine Liturgy before receiving communion?

I’m somewhat confused.

 

[Iconodule]

This is one of my favorite questions for Eastern Catholics, right up there with, “Do Byzantine Catholics celebrate Christmas”, and “Do Eastern Catholics worship Mary like the Roman Catholics do”.

 

[Micosil]

This is one of my favorite questions for Eastern Catholics, right up there with, “Do Byzantine Catholics celebrate Christmas”, and “Do Eastern Catholics worship Mary like the Roman Catholics do”.

Pretty funny, though I am sure the OP didn’t mean any disrespect towards Eastern Catholics. There tends to be a generalized lack of knowledge concercing the Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with Rome; over here where I live, the vast majority of people, faithful Latin Catholics included, have no clue such a thing as Eastern Catholics even exist; shameful, but it’s reality.

 

[Iconodule]

Pretty funny, though I am sure the OP didn’t mean any disrespect towards Eastern Catholics. There tends to be a generalized lack of knowledge concerning the Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with Rome; over here where I live, the vast majority of people, faithful Latin Catholics included, have no clue such a thing as Eastern Catholics even exist; shameful, but it’s reality.

We’ve been in a Western parish for quite some time now, and have assimilated quite well. Once we got to know folks,and they understood our background, most questions are loving and well intentioned. Occasionally someone (usually someone new to our parish, or a catechumen) will scold me for making the sign of the cross “backwards”, or for doing a metanoia and touching the floor instead of genuflecting (both with the blessing of our Bishop, of course), but all in all, I love my Latin parish.

 

[Micosil]

We’ve been in a Western parish for quite some time now, and have assimilated quite well. Once we got to know folks,and they understood our background, most questions are loving and well intentioned. Occasionally someone (usually someone new to our parish, or a catechumen) will scold me for making the sign of the cross “backwards”, or for doing a metanoia and touching the floor instead of genuflecting (both with the blessing of our Bishop, of course), but all in all, I love my Latin parish.

I find it odd how random people can come over and scold parishioners.

Out of curiosity, why did you start attending a Latin parish? Wish to learn about the Western side of the faith, or lack of Byzantine parishes in the area?

 

[5Loaves]

I’m really not sure what you are trying to say, but Eastern Catholics surely believe in the Real Presence.

In Byzantine tradition, a prayer is recited by the faithful before the Eucharist, in which this belief is affirmed.

“O Lord, I believe and profess that this which I am about to receive is truly Your most precious Body and life-giving Blood, which I pray make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting. Amen!”

Different jurisdictions use slightly different versions of the prayers. In my parish, and in the OCA here, is prayed:

I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who camest into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. I believe also that this is truly Thine own pure Body, and that this is truly Thine own precious Blood. Therefore I pray Thee: have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance. And make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thy most pure Mysteries, for the remission of my sins, and unto life everlasting. Amen.

Of Thy Mystical Supper, O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant; for I will not speak of Thy Mystery to Thine enemies, neither like Judas will I give Thee a kiss; but like the thief will I confess Thee: Remember me, O Lord in Thy Kingdom.

May the communion of Thy Holy Mysteries be neither to my judgment, nor to my condemnation, O Lord, but to the healing of soul and body. Amen.

 

[Iconodule]

Out of curiosity, why did you start attending a Latin parish? Wish to learn about the Western side of the faith, or lack of Byzantine parishes in the area?

We moved to a town without an Eastern Catholic parish several years ago. In Texas, unless one lives in DFW, Austin, Houston, or San Antonio, Latin parishes are all that are available. I still keep my Eastern Prayer Rule, using the Melkite Publican’s Prayer Book instead of the Liturgy of the Hours. Sometimes I feel out of place, and miss The Divine Liturgy and the order for confession terribly. But as an Eastern Catholic in a Latin Parish, I realize that I have an understanding and experience of the fullness of Catholic practice and tradition that not many other Catholics possess.

Glory to God for All Things!

 

[Micosil]

We moved to a town without an Eastern Catholic parish several years ago. In Texas, unless one lives in DFW, Austin, Houston, or San Antonio, Latin parishes are all that are available. I still keep my Eastern Prayer Rule, using the Melkite Publican’s Prayer Book instead of the Liturgy of the Hours. Sometimes I feel out of place, and miss The Divine Liturgy and the order for confession terribly. But as an Eastern Catholic in a Latin Parish, I realize that I have an understanding and experience of the fullness of Catholic practice and tradition that not many other Catholics possess.

Glory to God for All Things!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I thought ByzCathCantor already addressed this by writing out what is said in their Divine Liturgy before receiving communion?

That’s correct, and the Mystery of Faith is unique to the Latin Rite Mass.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

ditto!

My mother’s side of the family was much larger than my father’s, and all Latin Catholic. As a result, I was raised bi-ritual in many ways. I’m grateful I had both experiences during my formative years.

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t know about Eastern Catholics, but it’s certainly true of Roman Catholics: “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again.”