Eastern Catholics, what is your opinion on this? Lack of knowledge of ignorance?

[MaroniteRosary]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope. I don’t understand how we can not be Catholic.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

 

[Skeptic92]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope. I don’t understand how we can not be Catholic.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

I know I am mainly Latin-Rite (I attend a Byzantine Rite Church while at University though, the Latin Rite Church I find is not beneficial to me, with all the Guitars and the like, I prefer the smells, bells and chanting of the local Byzantine Rite Church), however this is actually probably a mixture of the two, it is both a lack of knowledge, and ignorance (if they have no desire to learn), you should tell them to go speak with their Priest and ask him about the Maronite Catholic Church, and let him set them straight.

 

[followingtheway]

I’m a Western/Latin Rite/Roman Catholic and that’s just sad ignorance.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope. I don’t understand how we can not be Catholic.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

Indeed it is sad, and I would first share with our less knowledgeable western Catholic that we are called by our Church to appreciate its full depth and breadth - “both lungs”, East and West.

One that has worked for me (with people I know well) is "Why do you think your church is called “Roman” Catholic, as opposed to just “Catholic” (although that doesn’t always work with some American usage I’ve seen of late)?

And when it comes to the Eastern Catholic Churches, it doesn’t matter whether there has been a break in communion or not - being part of the Catholic Church as it is recognized and comprised today is more than enough.

Perhaps you can invite your friend to attend a Divine Liturgy (Qorbono) in your church. The Maronite expression is indeed powerful and moving, and I never knew a traditionalist Latin Rite Catholic who didn’t walk away from a Maronite service without being blown away by its inherent beauty and reverence. The proof is in the Liturgy! One can always point to the commemoration of the Pope in the litanies, if nothing else.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope. I don’t understand how we can not be Catholic.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

You are of course. You can’t imagine how many Catholics never heard of any Catholics than Roman ones. Just… give it up to God. Please accept my apologies on behalf of all Roman Catholics who don’t know any better.

 

[Hesychios]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

I see things have not changed much, this is something that happened fifty years ago and probably many more than that besides. It is ongoing.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope…

That is debatable.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

It isn’t right, but the Maronite church is a pretty small thing compared to the Latin church. Trying to change attitudes in these conditions is like trying to push an iceberg with a rowboat.

The Latin Catholics are not always (not usually would be more likely) taught about eastern Catholicism, and despite the brave efforts of His Holiness the late Pope John Paul II to heighten awareness of the Eastern Catholics among the Latin Catholics it is apparently not a high priority of most catechists.

In fact, some of the traditional distinguishing ‘marks’ of Catholicism as some people are taught just do not apply to eastern Catholics, so they are conditioned not to see it.

I think you can expect that this problem will continue fifty years from now in just the same way.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

The Latin Catholics are not always (not usually would be more likely) taught about eastern Catholicism, and despite the brave efforts of His Holiness the late Pope John Paul II to heighten awareness of the Eastern Catholics among the Latin Catholics it is apparently not a high priority of most catechists.

We need to catechize the catechists (some of the clergy, as well)!

A funny sidebar: My mother’s side of the family is Roman Catholic, and I frequently attended Mass at the local RC church where I grew up for family occasions and if circumstances prevented us from going to our BC church, which was some distance away. The local RC church was a very modern structure for its time, and resembled a large auditorium more than a “classic” Latin church. A good number of the parishioners were of Eastern European decent, but grew up in the Latin Rite. Nonetheless, they felt compelled to donate a very large icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help to the church, which was prominently displayed behind the devotional candles at the front of the church. It really stood out given the sparse modernistic decor of the church interior overall. Even as a kid, I used to get a kick out of it when some of the non-Eastern European parishioners or visitors would say “Gee, what an unusual painting of Mary!”.

 

[kitkatty]

MaroniteRosary, the remark was made in ignorance, in charity try to think of it as ignorance rather than being rude. It isnt the only time youll probably hear something like this.The only thing to do is here is explain and educate.

 

[Celticnovice]

MaroniteRosary, the remark was made in ignorance, in charity try to think of it as ignorance rather than being rude. It isnt the only time youll probably hear something like this.The only thing to do is here is explain and educate.

This.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

The Maronite church has never been out of communion with the Pope. I don’t understand how we can not be Catholic.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

Welcome to the Eastern Catholic Church. It seems to be the moment of initiation for us all.

 

[BVT]

I have expressed my eastern catholic faith with western Catholics and I have been told that the Maronite Church isent Catholic at all just another branch of Christianity.

What do you think of this Comment?

God Bless

I heard this from one of my friend in Saudi Arabia one of the Latin prelate openly proclaimed that Syro-Malabar rite is not valid and the only valid rite is roman rite…

As a result of this the Malabar church in Saudi divided in to two

One official[latinized] Section [Supported by Latin bishop].

Another oriental section supported by four priests(one or two months back the religious police in Saudi arrested and deported one of this priest while he was celebrating the Qurbana in an under ground basement).

No wonder why the Newly elected and enthroned Head of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church His Beatitude Sviatoslav (Shevchuk) said
"We want our church to be alive"

 

[ConstantineTG]

I heard this from one of my friend in Saudi Arabia one of the Latin prelate openly proclaimed that Syro-Malabar rite is not valid and the only valid rite is roman rite…

As a result of this the Malabar church in Saudi divided in to two

One official[latinized] Section [Supported by Latin bishop].

Another oriental section supported by four priests.

Its sad that this continues to this day, given the ease of access to information. These priests can easily ask their Bishops or other authoritative sources for more information regarding this matter. Yet they just go on and assume.

 

[malphono]

The Maronite expression is indeed powerful and moving

Well, yes, it **was **(verb tense intended).

I never knew a traditionalist Latin Rite Catholic who didn’t walk away from a Maronite service without being blown away by its inherent beauty and reverence.

I have. Most are polite about it but are still uncomfortable. And who can blame them?

The proof is in the Liturgy!

.
Indeed it is. The ever-increasing and never ending Novus Ordo-inspired neo latinizations are plainly evident and are killing us.

One can always point to the commemoration of the Pope in the litanies, if nothing else.

Or one could point to the Novus Ordo-style offertory. Once one sees that, there’s little room for question about affiliation.

 

[malphono]

I heard this from one of my friend in Saudi Arabia one of the Latin prelate openly proclaimed that Syro-Malabar rite is not valid and the only valid rite is roman rite…

As a result of this the Malabar church in Saudi divided in to two

One official[latinized] Section [Supported by Latin bishop].

Another oriental section supported by four priests

Does that have any relation to the internal division between Chanangassery and the latinized elements in Thrissur? It all sounds rather similar.

(one or two months back the religious police in Saudi arrested and deported one of this priest while he was celebrating the Qurbana in an under ground basement).

The way things usually go down in that country, the poor priest was lucky not to have been killed. The public practice of Christianity (except in specifically designated “foreign” areas) in that country is considered a capital offense.

 

[dcointin]

Well, yes, it **was **(verb tense intended).

I have. Most are polite about it but are still uncomfortable. And who can blame them?

.
Indeed it is. The ever-increasing and never ending Novus Ordo-inspired neo latinizations are plainly evident and are killing us.

Or one could point to the Novus Ordo-style offertory. Once one sees that, there’s little room for question about affiliation.

I attended a Maronite liturgy once and loved its authentic portions, but was disturbed by the obvious influence of the Novus Ordo. When did these changes occur, and what did their liturgy look like before then?

 

[malphono]

I attended a Maronite liturgy once and loved its authentic portions, but was disturbed by the obvious influence of the Novus Ordo. When did these changes occur, and what did their liturgy look like before then?

It’s all post-conciliar and started some 40 years ago. Despite the use of Latin-stye vestments, in the “old days” there was no mistaking it for anything Latin. All one had to do was listen. Nowadays, the vestments are Syriac-style but if one listens, one hears echoes of the Novus Ordo.

Cute vignette: the old Maronite church in New York (which was razed to make room for a parking lot) was two doors down from a Greek Orthodox church (St George, the one that fell on 9/11). Once, many years ago, my uncle took my grandmother and they were running late. My uncle didn’t know the area, and mistakenly went to St George’s. As my grandmother told the story, it took a few minutes (until the Great Ektania, I think) even for her to realize they were in the wrong church.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It’s all post-conciliar and started some 40 years ago. Despite the use of Latin-stye vestments, in the “old days” there was no mistaking it for anything Latin. All one had to do was listen. Nowadays, the vestments are Syriac-style but if one listens, one hears echoes of the Novus Ordo.

Reading this and your early response to my previous post, I can only say we appreciate your pain!

I could not honestly say whether we Ruthenians were more or less Latinized here in the US, but we were Latinized nonetheless.

There is still much work to be done, despite real progress to return to our roots. Many of the Ruthenians who turned to Orthodoxy in response generations ago will not believe it until major changes take place, like seeing married priests again. Notwithstanding, the Liturgy and other services in the cycle of worship should and must be fully restored.

The Ruthenians of late have been entangled with impassioned, internal debate over the 2007 Revised Divine Liturgy (yes, still goes on …). Without specific comment on that subject, I can say that restoration of some other things like occasional Vespers, Matins and seasonal / devotional Molebens have been most welcome and well received by the faithful. Most especially welcome have been more complete rendering of services during Holy Week.

We pray for you and all our Eastern and Oriental Catholic brothers and sisters, that together we have the strength to walk through the door now opened for us, and restore our traditions in full!

 

[dcointin]

If it wouldn’t be too far off topic, could you summarize what the issues with the 2007 Revised Divine Liturgy are?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

If it wouldn’t be too far off topic, could you summarize what the issues with the 2007 Revised Divine Liturgy are?

Summing up as best I can, on major points of contention, concerns with the promulgated revision included:

Issues with translation, which many felt were not consistent with the reference texts and introduced potential differences in understanding from that which was generally accepted based on these reference Scriptural texts.

Introduction of the use of gender inclusive language (which some say even raised eyebrows in Rome)

Reference to musical patterns from a referenced chant text dating back to 1906, ignoring the natural evolution of chant tradition both here in the US and “back in the Old Country”. The resetting of the revised texts to these musical settings was considered awkward to many cantors and other chant practitioners.

Hope that helps!

 

[Hesychios]

…

Reference to musical patterns from a referenced chant text dating back to 1906, ignoring the natural evolution of chant tradition both here in the US and “back in the Old Country”. The resetting of the revised texts to these musical settings was considered awkward to many cantors and other chant practitioners.

Hope that helps!

I think that there was some personal animosity toward J. Michael Thompson as well, although I was fond of him.