Eastern Churches' position on Vassula Ryden

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To the Moderator: This thread is NOT to discuss Vassula Ryden writings/apparitions/revelations/whatever-they-are!

I know that the Latin rite has not approved Vassula Ryden as per catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false13.htm.

My questions are:


  1. *]Does the disapproval from the Latin rite also apply to Eastern rite Catholics?

    *]If the Latin rite disapproval does not apply to Eastern rite Catholics, is there any document from the Eastern rite regarding approval or disapproval of Vassula Ryden and can you provide a link please?

    *]Do any of the Orthodox Churches approve of her or disapprove and can you provide a link to any documents showing such approval or disapproval?

    Thank you.
 
To the Moderator: This thread is NOT to discuss Vassula Ryden writings/apparitions/revelations/whatever-they-are!

I know that the Latin rite has not approved Vassula Ryden as per catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false13.htm.

My questions are:


  1. *]Does the disapproval from the Latin rite also apply to Eastern rite Catholics?

    *]If the Latin rite disapproval does not apply to Eastern rite Catholics, is there any document from the Eastern rite regarding approval or disapproval of Vassula Ryden and can you provide a link please?

    *]Do any of the Orthodox Churches approve of her or disapprove and can you provide a link to any documents showing such approval or disapproval?

    Thank you.
    1. Since both Eastern Rite and Latin Rite Catholics have the same Pope, and the Curia makes doctrinal decisions that affect both Eastern and Latin Rite Catholics (the difference between the Eastern Rites and Latin is in liturgical expression and other norms, not doctrine), then the document in question (which deals with a matter that could potentially confuse people about doctrine) would also apply to Eastern Rite Catholics (even if it does not state this explicitly).
    2. Is not an applicable question, given the answer to #1.
    3. The short answer is I don’t know. However, typically the Catholic Church typically issues statements about those who claim to be Catholic, not Protestant or Orthodox or whatever. The Orthodox, most likely, would only issue statements about the writings, claimed apparitions or locutions, etc. of a person who claims to be Orthodox. Therefore, it’s highly unlikely that an Orthodox patriarch or someone in the hierarchy would give public approval or disapproval for a particular Catholic who claims to be with Rome.
    (To be clear, the last sentence is not to be construed as my intending to insinuate that any particular Catholic is not with Rome.)
 
To the Moderator: This thread is NOT to discuss Vassula Ryden writings/apparitions/revelations/whatever-they-are!

I know that the Latin rite has not approved Vassula Ryden as per catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false13.htm.

My questions are:


  1. *]Does the disapproval from the Latin rite also apply to Eastern rite Catholics?

    *]If the Latin rite disapproval does not apply to Eastern rite Catholics, is there any document from the Eastern rite regarding approval or disapproval of Vassula Ryden and can you provide a link please?

    *]Do any of the Orthodox Churches approve of her or disapprove and can you provide a link to any documents showing such approval or disapproval?

    Thank you.

  1. (1) Given that there is no apparent public approval…
    and (2) no public devotion is allowed without either one’s bishop’s approval or Rome’s approval…

    So no… unless a particular bishop approves it, or a Church Sui Iuris synod approves it, or the appropriate offices of the vatican do, no. ANd if one of them has said No, it’s exceedingly rare for a reversal.

    Only a few odd cases of public veneration “without Rome” are present… St. Photius, St. Gregory Palamas, and a few other Orthodox saints who were included on particular calendars as churches came into union. Even then, Rome approved the calendars. But private revelation is much more rigid: it’s a no-no until at least their bishop approves, and then only tthe locals, until it’s been investigated.
 
I believe in the messages from the books from Vassula. We all know the crisis of the church today… bishop against bishop, cardinal against cardinals.
Maybe the Vatican didn’t approve this because of the conflict within the church. If you read the books, I think there’s nothing wrong with it.

Same is my opinion about the messages from Veronica Leuken
 
I believe in the messages from the books from Vassula. We all know the crisis of the church today… bishop against bishop, cardinal against cardinals.
Maybe the Vatican didn’t approve this because of the conflict within the church. If you read the books, I think there’s nothing wrong with it.

Same is my opinion about the messages from Veronica Leuken
The Vatican didn’t approve either of these visionaries because they’re both complete and utter bunk.

Just because 1% of what they said was true doesn’t mean the other 99% is worth wading through.
 
And remember you can only put human faith (opinion) into private revelation, never religious faith. These ladies came well after the close of the apostolic age. Just don’t go off the deep end following any visionary/apparitionist/locutionary.

A lot of that stuff to me sounds like people using Jesus and/or Mary as sock puppets for their own opinions and axes being ground.
 
Dear GemmaRose,

Several representatives of the Orthodox Church have published negative statements regarding Vassula Ryden. The most important document was issued in 2001 by the Committee on Heresies of the Holy Synod of the Greek Orthodox Church. The decree states that “Vassula Ryden has expelled herself *] from the Orthodox Church, although she still presents herself as a member.”

You can find the details of the document, together with other declarations from Orthodox Church representatives here: infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm

Regarding the Catholic Church, the most recent document is a letter sent by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to all the Bishops’ Conferences in January 2007. The document confirms the negative doctrinal judgment of the 1995 Notification and advises against the participation of the faithful in Mrs Ryden’s prayer groups (see: infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm ).

I hope this information will be useful.

Warmly in Christ,

Maria Laura Pio
www.infovassula.ch
 
Oh, how depressing to see the same old negativity to God’s work! Yet true prophecy has, sadly, always to be persecuted. As a small counterbalance to the negative information above may I just point out that Cardinal Ratzinger would hardly invite Vassula to a private audience in his office in the Vatican just a month or two prior to his elevation as Pope, if she was a condemned prophet! And I can assure everyone that he did.

Secondly, how do the ‘naysayers’ explain the invitation by Patriarch Theodore II of Vassula and a group of 150 True Life in God readers to Alexandria earlier this year, to celebrate Orthodox Easter. The words of welcome from the Patriarch included the following: “And now, I would like to welcome you all from the bottom of my heart, especially you, Vassula, as I said in church this morning, welcome to your homeland, welcome to the country of your birth, and greetings to all who accompany you.”

You can view a report, with photographs, of this gathering at:
tlig.org/en/news/2008-08-12/2075/

God bless,
David
www.davidtlig.org.uk
 
Oh, how depressing to see the same old negativity to God’s work! Yet true prophecy has, sadly, always to be persecuted. As a small counterbalance to the negative information above may I just point out that Cardinal Ratzinger would hardly invite Vassula to a private audience in his office in the Vatican just a month or two prior to his elevation as Pope, if she was a condemned prophet! And I can assure everyone that he did.

Secondly, how do the ‘naysayers’ explain the invitation by Patriarch Theodore II of Vassula and a group of 150 True Life in God readers to Alexandria earlier this year, to celebrate Orthodox Easter. The words of welcome from the Patriarch included the following: “And now, I would like to welcome you all from the bottom of my heart, especially you, Vassula, as I said in church this morning, welcome to your homeland, welcome to the country of your birth, and greetings to all who accompany you.”

You can view a report, with photographs, of this gathering at:
tlig.org/en/news/2008-08-12/2075/

God bless,
David
www.davidtlig.org.uk
That’s why I asked my question, to hear from both sides.

Thanks, David. Thanks, all.
 
Aramis;4149483 said:
I do know that Pope John Paul II talked about St John Maximovitch a couple of times. No, I can’t remember when. But even then it’s more or less acknowledging what ROCOR had already done.
 
Dear GemmaRose and David,

Pope Benedict XVI also received for a two hour dinner the **condemned **theologian Hans Kung just a few months after he was elected Pope. In that occasion, the Pope’s spokesperson declared that the encounter had taken place in a “friendly setting” and that the Pope had “appreciated” and “agreed” on some points. However, it remains clear – even if not specifically said by the spokesperson – that Kung’s views on several controversial doctrinal issues are not shared by the Pope.

That is how Pope Benedict is: a man of dialogue. But to dialogue with someone does not mean one approves all that person’s ideas. And Kung is only an example; I chose him because he is well-known and remains condemned by the CDF. And it is also in this light that former Cardinal Ratzinger’s attitude towards Vassula makes sense. To dialogue does not mean to approve.

Regarding the recent TLIG pilgrimage in Egypt, where the Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa warmly received Mrs Ryden and all her group, I can only tell you what I have been told by a Greek Orthodox person living in Egypt, who contacted the Patriarchate regarding this matter. According to the exchange of letters he had with the Secretary of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, they lacked all the information regarding Mrs Ryden’s situation with the Greek Orthodox Church.

I consider the information believable, because similar situations of disinformation involving TLIG have occurred in Catholic settings, for instance in January of 2006 in Los Angeles (I copy the information at the end of this posting).

What I can confirm is that in 2001 the Greek Orthodox Church did indeed issue the decree saying that Mrs Ryden did not act as a member of the Greek Orthodox Church although she continues to present herself as a member of it. And that this continues to be the opinion of the Greek Orthodox Church for the reasons mentioned in my website. Of course, as is the case in the Catholic Church, there are individual clergy (including bishops) and faithful who do not agree with that position, and express it as their personal opinions.

Warmy in Christ,

Maria Laura Pio

**Extracts from the article “L.A. Cathedral disinvites Christian Unity Event” published in the Los Angeles Times, January 10, 2006: **"Msgr. Kevin Kostelnik, pastor of the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, said that what had been represented by sponsors as a Christian unity conference had turned out to be largely a forum for Vassula Ryden (…). Kostelnik said that **the decision to withdraw the cathedral’s invitation to play host to the conference was ‘final and not subject to change’./B] He said that the meeting was turning into something different than originally proposed. Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles, had earlier agreed to offer welcoming remarks at the conference, but now approved the withdrawal, Kostelnik said. (…)

**A leading Greek Orthodox priest **said Monday he previously had also pulled out of the Jan. 28 conference. “Everything is very suspect. That’s all I’m going to say”, said Very Rev. John Bakas, dean of St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Los Angeles. A publicist for the conference said a second Greek Orthodox priest, from Brooklyn, had also decided not to attend.

The meeting was to have been under the auspices of Ryden’s True Life in God organization and sponsored by the New Jerusalem Foundation, headed by Claire and Antoine Mansour. (…) In a handwritten Oct. 7 letter to Kostelnik, Antoine Mansour assured the pastor that Ryden’s writings ‘have been cleared by the Vatican’. But Kostelnik wrote Monday [Jan. 9] that **Mansour’s assurance was ‘a serious misrepresentation of the current Vatican view of Mrs Ryden’s speeches and writings’. He said 1995 and 1996 Vatican statements cautioning Catholics against following Ryden remained ‘in full force’. (…) (Read the complete article at: ourladyswarriors.org/vassula.htm )
 
I have her books and have read them. I just wanted to know what the official stance of the Eastern and Orthodox Churches were.
I also have read the books and I found nothing wrong with them.
 
I am reluctant to make any further response to Mario Pio who devotes her life to persecuting the True Life in God messages, but I will just add the following to ‘fill out’ the two points of my original posting:
  1. Vassula’s meeting with the then Cardinal Ratzinger can in no way be compared with his meeting with Hans Kung. Kung and the Pope are old academic colleagues. Vassula’s meeting with the Cardinal Ratzinger after his positive investigation of her and her writings was their first face to face contact. It is worth mentioning that during the meeting the Cardinal twice told Vassula that the Church does make mistakes and when it does, “we ask for God’s forgiveness”.
  2. The invitiation to Vassula and the the TLIG group by Patriarch Theodore was essentially an invitation based on his reading of the Messages. Even Vassula was surprised by the Patriarch’s openness to True Life in God. He had recommended the books before he ever met her.
May I quote from St Paul:

Make sure that you never refuse to listen when he speaks. If the people who on earth refused to listen to a warning could not escape their punishment, how shall we possibly escape if we turn away from a voice that warns us from heaven? (Hebrews 12:25)

God bless,
David
www.davidtlig.org.uk
 
Dear David,

Unfortunately I was not present when Vassula met Cardinal Ratzinger, so I have no way of verifying what he told her and in what context. However, when the Church makes mistakes, she corrects them. Cardinal Ratzinger did not cancel nor modify the Notification regarding Mrs Ryden. He didn’t do it when he was Prefect of the CDF, nor now that he is Pope. In fact, since 1995, the CDF has constantly confirmed that the Notification is valid. The Notification says that Mrs Ryden’s writings contain errors and that they should only be considered as her private meditations.

The fact that Kung is an old colleague of Ratzinger does not make the comparison less valid. It manifests the Pope’s personality. If he had no problem meeting Kung as Pope and stating that they agreed on some points, then as Prefect of the CDF he wouldn’t either have had problems receiving Vassula, who – you will certainly agree with me - is more “Catholic” than Kung and who had exchanged several letters with the CDF. Independently of the result of her dialogue with the Congregation.

Regarding the Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa, my first impression was that indeed he was a supporter of Vassula. It was only afterwards that I was given this other information. I believe both pieces of information are compatible: the Patriarch may have read, recommended the books and received Mrs Ryden without being fully aware of her situation with the Greek Orthodox Church.

Again, there are many positive contents in the TLIG writings. However, as Cardinal Ratzinger himself stated in a 1999 interview: “The grain and the chaff are mixed up”. What generally attracts people to the messages (me included) is precisely all the good content. However, some readers quickly find negative elements in the writings. Others, only with time do they realize that something is wrong. That was my case.

Regarding my website, if you wish to consider it as “persecution” of Vassula, I would be the first to understand you. When I was reading the messages, I could not stand a single word of criticism against Vassula. But to point out what one regards as negative or mistaken is not to persecute, but to search for the Truth.

Warmly in Christ,

Maria Laura
 
Note from Moderator:

This thread has gone off-topic from its original post. The questions asked in the original post have been answered and the thread is now being used in violation of forum rules to promote agendas, including the promotion of an unapproved private revelation. For those reasons, this thread is now closed.
 
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