Eastern Fasting woes!

[KShaft]

Hello. I am a Roman Catholic recently attending mostly Byzantine Catholic services. Ive been looking at the Eastern Churches fasting rules and they are pretty strict. The devotion is great to do such things. However, I used to be very active, basically working out near the level of pro boxers (and yeah working out right with em, they just were easy on me when ‘sparing’ if they even threw back any punches at all…) or when in the military running for 4-7 miles, weight strength training, then a Crossfit workout to finish it off.

Now eating once a day on the regimen above would be extremely detrimental, as protein synthesis isnt going to happen without fuel and raw materials. Bread and vegetables arent going to cut it. I cant afford crab or shrimp to eat almost at all.

I was wondering if there was an authorized or prescribed way to “fast” for a more athletic person which wouldn’t be hindering recovery or performance. Perhaps more penitential actions or maybe allowing poultry but only simplistic ways of preparation like deli cuts with bread and no condiments or something (that’s much harder to do than eating shrimp or crab if you ask me bleh!). I mean you get nutrients and its almost penitential to get it down!

Oh and can you drink supplements that are milk derived? Like whey protein?

Thanks in advance. I know it kind of sounds like a futile cause but if a method is canonically prescribed then I guess I would take some solace in it.

 

[ciero]

Hello. I am a Roman Catholic recently attending mostly Byzantine Catholic services. Ive been looking at the Eastern Churches fasting rules and they are pretty strict. The devotion is great to do such things. However, I used to be very active, basically working out near the level of pro boxers (and yeah working out right with em, they just were easy on me when ‘sparing’ if they even threw back any punches at all…) or when in the military running for 4-7 miles, weight strength training, then a Crossfit workout to finish it off.

Now eating once a day on the regimen above would be extremely detrimental, as protein synthesis isnt going to happen without fuel and raw materials. Bread and vegetables arent going to cut it. I cant afford crab or shrimp to eat almost at all.

I was wondering if there was an authorized or prescribed way to “fast” for a more athletic person which wouldn’t be hindering recovery or performance. Perhaps more penitential actions or maybe allowing poultry but only simplistic ways of preparation like deli cuts with bread and no condiments or something (that’s much harder to do than eating shrimp or crab if you ask me bleh!). I mean you get nutrients and its almost penitential to get it down!

Oh and can you drink supplements that are milk derived? Like whey protein?

Thanks in advance. I know it kind of sounds like a futile cause but if a method is canonically prescribed then I guess I would take some solace in it.

How about “fasting” from such an active lifestyle? As fasting is one of the three pillars of Eastern spirituality( Prayer, Fasting and Alms-giving) I would look at other areas of my life to curtail rather then what the church sets forth for our spiritual benefit. What is more important…a professionally fit body…or looking after ones soul?

 

[RSD]

How about “fasting” from such an active lifestyle? As fasting is one of the three pillars of Eastern spirituality( Prayer, Fasting and Alms-giving) I would look at other areas of my life to curtail rather then what the church sets forth for our spiritual benefit. What is more important…a professionally fit body…or looking after ones soul?

It could be that the OP is called by God to be very physically fit. There are many good reasons to maintain strength and fitness in ways that can be used to love and serve God. It makes sense that somewhere there are rules about eating to maintain health while fasting and still maintaining fitness. I think that the level of activity that we nowadays consider “working out” for most of human history was considered to be “alive”. And I think that one of the reasons that the rules of fasting were changed was because there were many ordinary people, who in their ordinary lives could not fast that much and maintain their health. Ironically, the rules changed at time when most people would benefit from MORE fasting to improve their health.

 

[KShaft]

How about “fasting” from such an active lifestyle? As fasting is one of the three pillars of Eastern spirituality( Prayer, Fasting and Alms-giving) I would look at other areas of my life to curtail rather then what the church sets forth for our spiritual benefit. What is more important…a professionally fit body…or looking after ones soul?

Your point is well taken sir, however if I was still in the military, it is my duty to remain physically fit and if I am not I can get myself or others killed. As of RIGHT NOW that is not the case, but I am considering coming back in for a short stint because I have no job and need to pay for college and to live.

I did stop fitness stuff for studies and I am now a bit of a sow. Im 30 some pounds over weight and its contributing to GERD I have. Its basically heart burn acid that goes to your throat and makes you feel like you have to clear it constantly. So working this excess off is a necessity. I am at the point now where I would rather say the Daily Hours or read Scripture or theological books than workout. That was not the case a few years ago. Now I have to.

Have a good one.

 

[5Loaves]

Hello. I am a Roman Catholic recently attending mostly Byzantine Catholic services. Ive been looking at the Eastern Churches fasting rules and they are pretty strict. …

I was wondering if there was an authorized or prescribed way to “fast” for a more athletic person which wouldn’t be hindering recovery or performance. …

I know it kind of sounds like a futile cause but if a method is canonically prescribed then I guess I would take some solace in it.

Fasting in the Eastern traditions is one of the great gifts of the Church!
The questions you have are best answered by talking with the deacon or priest, or their wives, at the church you’re attending.

You are probably looking at the norms for monastics. These are the norms we have on our parish calendar. There is great variation among the Churches and also modifications for you individually with the help of a qualified spiritual guide.

I’d suggest you look also at the 10 minute video interview Catherine Alexander has on Youtube with Father Moses of Holy Resurrection Romanian Catholic Monastery in Newberry Springs, CA about Fasting in the Byzantine Church Year with Fr. Moses of Holy Resurrection Monastery . It’s best viewed I think along with the Feasting in the Byzantine Church Year.

Also Fr Loya’s presentation at the Orientale Lumen Conference, OLXII – Feast Days of the Eastern Church, may help with a better understanding of the role of feasts and fasts OLXII – Plenary 5 – Father Thomas Loya

Not all but much of a couple useful sections of Great Lent by Fr. Alexander Schmemann of blessed memory are on googlebooks. See the sections on Forgiveness CheeseFare Sunday (pg 27) and The Two Meanings of Fasting (pg 49).

Fasting in the East, as you may have already seen, is quite different from the juridical emphasis which can be most common in the Latin Church which is what you may have been taught, it sounds like.

(Maybe you’ve read the wikipedia section on Eastern Fasting. It’s a good overview but lacks the teaching element of the suggestions above.)

Fasting has really changed my life in wonderful and challenging ways. It has really changed my relationship to Holy Eucharist. Fr. Schmemann’s The Two Meanings of Fasting (pg 49) section is very much worth reading for this.

Do not be discouraged. Speak to your EC clergy. They can help you, and I pray they won’t say you only need to fast the minimal obligations in terms of days. Most of us will grow gradually in our fasting I think. It’s so worth making this something to begin to include in your life.

(There are many threads here in the EC section on fasting worth looking through.)

 

[malphono]

I frankly don’t see the problem. Seems to me that being “physically fit” is not the equivalent of being “bulked-up” on animal protein. It’s certainly possible for a vegetarian (if not a vegan) to be fit, isn’t it?

 

[Nine_Two]

I can’t speak for Eastern Catholics, but in the Orthodox Church the fasting “rules” are guidelines which don’t apply in every situation (for example pregnant women are completely forbidden fasting). Talk to your spiritual father and come up with a regime that works better for the situation you’re in. The important part of the Lenten season is getting rid of distractions and spending more time focused on God.

 

[5Loaves]

How about “fasting” from such an active lifestyle? As fasting is one of the three pillars of Eastern spirituality( Prayer, Fasting and Alms-giving)** I would look at other areas of my life to curtail **rather then what the church sets forth for our spiritual benefit. What is more important…a professionally fit body…or looking after ones soul?

I think you make an important point, ciero, whether or not that would be the particular activity for OP to fast from. All best done with (name removed by moderator)ut from a good spiritual adviser. I suggested some time ago to someone who was wrestling with the topic that they fast from the internet one or two days a week. That clearly didn’t happen. LOL… What is so important in the East is the integration we seek and which the Church practices so beautifully aim toward. Foods are certainly not the only place to focus when considering this topic (in fact the marital act is typically among those places where we are encouraged to fast at certain fasting times).

 

[5Loaves]

I frankly don’t see the problem. Seems to me that being “physically fit” is not the equivalent of being “bulked-up” on animal protein. It’s certainly possible for a vegetarian (if not a vegan) to be fit, isn’t it?

As a native of the SF Bay Area who grew up in the '50s Jack LaLanne of blessed memory immediately comes to mind.

He advocated a mostly meatless diet but which included fish … He ate two meals a day and avoided snacks. His breakfast, after working out for two hours, consisted of hard-boiled egg whites, a cup of broth, oatmeal with soy milk and seasonal fruit. For dinner he and his wife typically ate raw vegetables and egg whites along with fish. He did not drink coffee.

 

[Aramis]

Hello. I am a Roman Catholic recently attending mostly Byzantine Catholic services. Ive been looking at the Eastern Churches fasting rules and they are pretty strict. The devotion is great to do such things. However, I used to be very active, basically working out near the level of pro boxers (and yeah working out right with em, they just were easy on me when ‘sparing’ if they even threw back any punches at all…) or when in the military running for 4-7 miles, weight strength training, then a Crossfit workout to finish it off.

Now eating once a day on the regimen above would be extremely detrimental, as protein synthesis isnt going to happen without fuel and raw materials. Bread and vegetables arent going to cut it. I cant afford crab or shrimp to eat almost at all.

I was wondering if there was an authorized or prescribed way to “fast” for a more athletic person which wouldn’t be hindering recovery or performance. Perhaps more penitential actions or maybe allowing poultry but only simplistic ways of preparation like deli cuts with bread and no condiments or something (that’s much harder to do than eating shrimp or crab if you ask me bleh!). I mean you get nutrients and its almost penitential to get it down!

Oh and can you drink supplements that are milk derived? Like whey protein?

Thanks in advance. I know it kind of sounds like a futile cause but if a method is canonically prescribed then I guess I would take some solace in it.

It depends a lot on your Pastor.

Note that the eastern praxis doesn’t normally require only one meal; it’s not about being hungry. It’s about simplifying one’s diet and making it more bland. Sustenance, rather than enjoyment.

The nominal fasting rules for the Ruthenian church are mandated at no meat on wednesdays and fridays of fasts (and no meat on fridays, period, unless they’re also a festal day), no meat, milk, eggs, oil, nor wine on a handful of specific days, and a strong recommendation to avoid meat, milk, eggs, wine and oil on mondays, wednesdays and fridays, and a milder one to do so for all of the great fast. We are also encouraged to reduce portion sizes, if practical.

In latin terms, we don’t fast, we just abstain.

 

[5Loaves]

In latin terms, we don’t fast, we just abstain.

In terms of Eucharistic fasts we do fast, ie abstain from food, not eating after dinner Saturday nights until Sunday Eucharist, and during Great Lent on Wednesdays and Fridays we fast until the Eucharist in the evening Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts. I think the day before, the eve, of Theophany and Nativity are also strict fasts at least for our Russian calendar. Our parish typically has Festal Divine Liturgy in the evening. So for example our DL for Theophany was 7pm. I did have breakfast the morning of Jan. 6 but didn’t eat again until after DL that night.

 

[Aramis]

In terms of Eucharistic fasts we do fast, ie abstain from food, not eating after dinner Saturday nights until Sunday Eucharist, and during Great Lent on Wednesdays and Fridays we fast until the Eucharist in the evening Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts. I think the day before, the eve, of Theophany and Nativity are also strict fasts at least for our Russian calendar. Our parish typically has Festal Divine Liturgy in the evening. So for example our DL for Theophany was 7pm. I did have breakfast the morning of Jan. 6 but didn’t eat again until after DL that night.

Those not receiving at Liturgy are not obligated to the eucharistic fast; the exact terms of which vary from church sui iuris to church sui iuris. The Ruthenian Eucharistic Fast is 1 hour prior to liturgy in the US, and according to the visitors from Europe, from noon for evening liturgies in the homeland, and from bedtime for morning… but with the encouragement to go further.

 

[ciero]

Those not receiving at Liturgy are not obligated to the eucharistic fast; the exact terms of which vary from church sui iuris to church sui iuris. The Ruthenian Eucharistic Fast is 1 hour prior to liturgy in the US, and according to the visitors from Europe, from noon for evening liturgies in the homeland, and from bedtime for morning… but with the encouragement to go further.

Isn’t it about time we Byzantines get over all this Latinization of our own traditions, and just live them…we all know the tradition we dont need the bishops constantly lowering the bar for us…or do we? JUST LIVE THE TRADITION.

 

[StTommyMore]

Isn’t it about time we Byzantines get over all this Latinization of our own traditions, and just live them…we all know the tradition we dont need the bishops constantly lowering the bar for us…or do we? JUST LIVE THE TRADITION.

Isn’t it somewhat haughty to assume that easter traditions are “superior” to western traditions?

 

[malphono]

Isn’t it somewhat haughty to assume that easter traditions are “superior” to western traditions?

I see no hint whatsoever of either “haughtiness” or “superiority” in ciero’s remark.

 

[ciero]

Isn’t it somewhat haughty to assume that easter traditions are “superior” to western traditions?

Where do you see any assumption that anyones fasting traditions are superior? Let the Latins have their traditions (which they have all but legislated away but thats another thread ) and leave the Byzantines to their traditions.

 

[Vico]

Hello. I am a Roman Catholic recently attending mostly Byzantine Catholic services. Ive been looking at the Eastern Churches fasting rules and they are pretty strict. The devotion is great to do such things. However, I used to be very active, basically working out near the level of pro boxers (and yeah working out right with em, they just were easy on me when ‘sparing’ if they even threw back any punches at all…) or when in the military running for 4-7 miles, weight strength training, then a Crossfit workout to finish it off.

Now eating once a day on the regimen above would be extremely detrimental, as protein synthesis isnt going to happen without fuel and raw materials. Bread and vegetables arent going to cut it. I cant afford crab or shrimp to eat almost at all.

I was wondering if there was an authorized or prescribed way to “fast” for a more athletic person which wouldn’t be hindering recovery or performance. Perhaps more penitential actions or maybe allowing poultry but only simplistic ways of preparation like deli cuts with bread and no condiments or something (that’s much harder to do than eating shrimp or crab if you ask me bleh!). I mean you get nutrients and its almost penitential to get it down!

Oh and can you drink supplements that are milk derived? Like whey protein?

Thanks in advance. I know it kind of sounds like a futile cause but if a method is canonically prescribed then I guess I would take some solace in it.

In the USA both the Latin Church and the Byzantine Church fasting traditions have been modified in current canons.

Latin Catholic’s in the USA

The days of both Fast and Abstinence during Lent are Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. The other Fridays of Lent are days of Abstinence.

Fast

On a day of Fast, only one (1) full meal is permitted *. Those between the ages of 18 and 59 are obliged to fast.

• Also some food (not equaling another full meal) is permitted at breakfast and around midday or in the evening—depending on when a person chooses to eat the main or full meal. Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

Abstinance

On a day of Abstinence, no meat may be eaten. Those who have reached the age of 14 are obliged by the law of abstinence.

Byzantine Catholic’s in the USA

Traditional is simple abstinance after Meatfare Sunday and strict abstinance after Cheesefare Sunday, until Pascha, but everyday, and strict abstinance Wed & Fri throughout the year!

The fasts of the liturgical year are to be kept in accordance with the Norms of Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh.

Strict Abstinence (Pure Monday and Great Friday)

The law of strict abstinence (fast) forbids the use of meat, eggs and dairy products. Facsimiles, substitutes, and synthetic derivatives, although they are permitted, violate the intention and spirit of the law of strict abstinence.

All the faithful of the Archeparchy who receive the Eucharist are bound to observe strict abstinence.

Strict abstinence (fast) is to be observed on Pure Monday (the first day of the Great Fast) and on Great and Holy Friday.

Simple Abstinence (Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast, all Fridays)

The law of simple abstinence forbids the use of meat, permitting the use of eggs and dairy products.

All the faithful of the Archeparchy who receive the Eucharist are bound to abstain.
Simple Abstinence is obligatory on all Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.

 

[ciero]

In the USA both the Latin Church and the Byzantine Church fasting traditions have been modified in current canons.

Latin Catholic’s in the USA

The days of both Fast and Abstinence during Lent are Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. The other Fridays of Lent are days of Abstinence.

Fast

On a day of Fast, only one (1) full meal is permitted *. Those between the ages of 18 and 59 are obliged to fast.

• Also some food (not equaling another full meal) is permitted at breakfast and around midday or in the evening—depending on when a person chooses to eat the main or full meal. Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

Abstinance

On a day of Abstinence, no meat may be eaten. Those who have reached the age of 14 are obliged by the law of abstinence.

Byzantine Catholic’s in the USA

Traditional is simple abstinance after Meatfare Sunday and strict abstinance after Cheesefare Sunday, until Pascha, but everyday, and strict abstinance Wed & Fri throughout the year!

The fasts of the liturgical year are to be kept in accordance with the Norms of Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh.

Strict Abstinence (Pure Monday and Great Friday)

The law of strict abstinence (fast) forbids the use of meat, eggs and dairy products. Facsimiles, substitutes, and synthetic derivatives, although they are permitted, violate the intention and spirit of the law of strict abstinence.

All the faithful of the Archeparchy who receive the Eucharist are bound to observe strict abstinence.

Strict abstinence (fast) is to be observed on Pure Monday (the first day of the Great Fast) and on Great and Holy Friday.

Simple Abstinence (Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast, all Fridays)

The law of simple abstinence forbids the use of meat, permitting the use of eggs and dairy products.

All the faithful of the Archeparchy who receive the Eucharist are bound to abstain.
Simple Abstinence is obligatory on all Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.

More dumbed down fasting regulations to ape the Latins…

 

[StTommyMore]

More dumbed down fasting regulations to ape the Latins…

the arrogance is staggering

 

[Vico]

More dumbed down fasting regulations to ape the Latins…

The variation is actually quite complicated and varies depending upon the ritual Church and location in the world. In some places meat, animal products including cheese, milk, butter, eggs, lard, also fish with backbones, olive oil, and all alcoholic drinks, are not consumed during the weekdays of Great Lent, but octopus and shell-fish and vegetable oil are allowed. But, on weekends, olive oil and alcoholic drinks are permitted. Different locations historically had different food varieties and costs which are significant.