Eastern Fasting woes!

[josephdaniel29]

the arrogance is staggering

My brother, you are far too easily staggered.

 

[5Loaves]

In the USA both the Latin Church and the Byzantine Church fasting traditions have been modified in current canons…

The fasts of the liturgical year are to be kept in accordance with the Norms of Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh.

There is a sea of others out here besides the Latin Church and "the Byzantine Church " Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh.

I do think there is one universal to the fasting: “We look at our own plates. We don’t look at anyone else’s.”

 

[5Loaves]

**Those not receiving **at Liturgy are not obligated to the eucharistic fast; the exact terms of which vary from church sui iuris to church sui iuris. The Ruthenian Eucharistic Fast is 1 hour prior to liturgy in the US, and according to the visitors from Europe, from noon for evening liturgies in the homeland, and from bedtime for morning… but with the encouragement to go further.

Thank you for that. In saying we break the fast with Holy Eucharist I was kind of assuming this. I sometimes find myself at evening Holy Mass and choose not to receive because I’m not comfortable with when I last ate, too late in the day, too close to the time of Eucharist. This is a personal choice connected with my own practice and the place fasting has come to have in my life and spiritual guidance I’ve had, etc. There are always reasons why someone may not be prepared to receive and still want to take part in Mass/Liturgy. I appreciate you bringing this up.

 

[5Loaves]

The variation is actually quite complicated and varies depending upon the ritual Church and location in the world.

I do think there is one universal to the fasting: “We look at our own plates. We don’t look at anyone else’s.”

 

[ciero]

The variation is actually quite complicated and varies depending upon the ritual Church and location in the world. In some places meat, animal products including cheese, milk, butter, eggs, lard, also fish with backbones, olive oil, and all alcoholic drinks, are not consumed during the weekdays of Great Lent, but octopus and shell-fish and vegetable oil are allowed. But, on weekends, olive oil and alcoholic drinks are permitted. Different locations historically had different food varieties and costs which are significant.

The “variations” you quote are more the norm throughout the Orthodox world. I just don’t get why the Byzantine Catholic bishops dont just set forth OUR traditions and not dumb them down to be more like the Latins.

 

[ciero]

The variation is actually quite complicated and varies depending upon the ritual Church and location in the world. In some places meat, animal products including cheese, milk, butter, eggs, lard, also fish with backbones, olive oil, and all alcoholic drinks, are not consumed during the weekdays of Great Lent, but octopus and shell-fish and vegetable oil are allowed. But, on weekends, olive oil and alcoholic drinks are permitted. Different locations historically had different food varieties and costs which are significant.

The “variations” you quote are more the norm throughout the Orthodox world. I just don’t get why the Byzantine Catholic bishops dont just set forth OUR traditions and not dumb them down to be more like the Latins. Do they think our people are just to stupid to follow them or what? I just dont get it.

 

[StTommyMore]

The “variations” you quote are more the norm throughout the Orthodox world. I just don’t get why the Byzantine Catholic bishops dont just set forth OUR traditions and not dumb them down to be more like the Latins. Do they think our people are just to stupid to follow them or what? I just dont get it.

Your utter disrespect for the Latin Church is ridiculous.

 

[Aramis]

More dumbed down fasting regulations to ape the Latins…

the arrogance is staggering

I agree, STM.

It was, to cite Eparch George, of eternal memory, about a baseline from which to rise, not a bar lowered.

Better to set a lower baseline and have pastors not need to indult so many, than to stick to the traditional Ruthenian fast. And the traditional was not a whole lot less than the current, anyway, but could not be observed by those in public schools who ate hot lunches. The requirement for “simple meals” alone is blown by school lunches…

Besides, what is traditional varies by particular church. Consider this: the Russian OCA sets the standard at: Nothing with a spine, nor cooked with oil, nor with wine, nor milk, from Cheesefare until Pascha. No mitigation at all, either, for sundays. The average OCA member I’ve met barely follows “no meat on fridays” during great fast… either they’re all simply ignoring it, or indults are everywhere.

 

[ciero]

Your utter disrespect for the Latin Church is ridiculous.

Get real man!! I have no disrespect for the Latin church AT ALL! Anyone with a set of eyes can see that the Latin fasting regulations dont come close to the traditional Byzantine regulations…my point is the Byzantine Catholic bishops once again to “prove” they are Catholic change OUR traditions to more resemble what the Latins do…in other words they “dumb” down OUR traditions to “look” more Latin. My disrespect is for the behavior of the Byzantine bishops…not the Latin church!

 

[Aramis]

Get real man!! I have no disrespect for the Latin church AT ALL! Anyone with a set of eyes can see that the Latin fasting regulations dont come close to the traditional Byzantine regulations…my point is the Byzantine Catholic bishops once again to “prove” they are Catholic change OUR traditions to more resemble what the Latins do…in other words they “dumb” down OUR traditions to “look” more Latin. My disrespect is for the behavior of the Byzantine bishops…not the Latin church!

You certainly come across with a serious hate of anything you perceive and/or misperceive as a latin, condemning it without thinking about it and attacking before apparent thinking. Constantly and consistently, for the last several months.

To the point where I wonder why you stay in communion with Rome…

 

[ciero]

You certainly come across with a serious hate of anything you perceive and/or misperceive as a latin, condemning it without thinking about it and attacking before apparent thinking. Constantly and consistently, for the last several months.

To the point where I wonder why you stay in communion with Rome…

Maybe I should just give up on the Eastern Catholic Churches…let them become more and more Latinized until they are just completely absorbed into the Latin church. And maybe I’ll just stay and be a thorn in the sides of the Eastern Catholic Bishops.

 

[5Loaves]

Well we seem to have come to talking about “Eastern Fasting woes” tho not the ones OP brought to the topic.

I’d like to move closer to OPs idea of fasting woes…

We sing “Let us begin the fast with joy!” I myself feel this. Does no one else here look with great enthuiasm to Meatfare, Cheesefare, Forgiveness Vespers, the deep redirecting of our appetites?

Here’s another article I just found Let Us Begin the Fast with Joy An explanation of the traditional Lenten fasting discipline

If we always take our fill of food and drink, we easily grow over-confident in our own abilities, acquiring a false sense of autonomy and self-sufficiency. Ultimately, fasting leads not to hunger and weariness, but to wakefulness, freedom and joyfulness in full reliance on God.

Let us begin the fast with encouragement for one another. We can bring the sadness, anger, disappointment expressed here to our “fasting” whatever form that fasting takes. I had two very disturbing experiences with the Church in the past 10 days. I told Father “I feel like I’m on Mars” with some of these things. He spoke of learning to pick and choose well, an ongoing learning process.

Let us begin the fast with joy, with love, with encouragement!

 

[Michael_Francis]

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