Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic

[josie_L]

Thanks for the web sites. I will do some more research. Can I ask: doesn’t it bother you that one man is in charge of a very large Christian denomination? He makes rules for the church and some of those rules are not biblical in foundation. I will admit this last time around I was hoping for a younger Pope, someone more in tune with the times. However, I then realized that even a younger man would, more than likely, follow to a “T” the rules of the church and his being the head of it all. It was man-made that Priests not be allowed to marry. How do you feel about that?

Kathy

The pope is not “one man in charge of a very large Christian denomination” (by the way the Church of Christ is not a Christian denomination), i.e., he is a leader not a dictator. Moreover, what rules are you referring to? And priests not being able to marry (in the latin rite) is a discipline not a dogma of the church therefore it is liable to change.

Married clergy in other Churches

Focus on the Family, is one of the largest and most respected Evangelical organizations. They have a ministry completely devoted to Protestant clergy support called the “Clergy Care Network.” In the June 2007, Focus on the Family magazine had two articles called “The pastor…at home” and “Ministry spotlight.” It highlighted the difficulties of being a family man and a clergy.

By far, says Shari, the most common requests the correspondence team receive [from pastors] are for prayer and guidance concerning marriage, parenting, pornography, infidelity and child rearing issues causing division between parents… (Pg. 26, Focus on the Family Canada Magazine, June 2007)

…we [a Pastor and his wife] raised our boys to know that we loved the church but we loved them even more. That did not always sit well with some of our congregations’ leadership, but …the boys came first…in many cases …pastors kids shun the church because of the competition they felt for their parents’ attention. (Pg. 7, Focus on the Family Canada Magazine, June 2007)

Family has to come first. I played the music for a Pentecostal men’s retreat. They gave some statistics about protestant clergy.

•1500 per month leave the Pentecostal ministry
•2/3rds quit before they retire.
•14 years is the average length as a Pastor (Pentecostal Assemblies of God)
In addition the Focus on the Family Stewardship Update June 2007, reports that:

•8 out of 10 pastors and their spouses are discouraged or dealing with depression
•80% of pastors say they have insufficient time with their spouses
The famous Evangelical Evangelist Chuck Swindol says “The demands of ministry can take their toll on our home and family and then our walk with God.”

In other words, it is totally stressful to run a church and run a home. At some point the Catholic Church may decide to go down the road of married clergy but it would have many problems and at this point we are sticking to a celibate clergy. **The Lord Jesus and the apostle Paul make their preference very clear in Scripture, celibacy is better. (more below) **

The Catholic Church has always known that a Pastor who is a family man has a heart that is naturally divided. History shows that there was always a tradition of celibate priests in the early Church, although it was not exclusive.

davidmacd.com/catholic/why_priests_cant_marry.htm

 

[aloneinjax]

Kissing of a Pope or Bishops ring is a tradition I wouldn’t exactly compare it to the Mafia its a sign of respect. As for priests not being able to marry that is untrue the Eastern Rites Priests are allowed to be married and then consecrated. There are also some married Latin Rite Priests. Most of them were formally Protestant ministers and some who’s wives have died, a small few were married ordained Deacons who got special permission from their Bishop to be ordained to the Priesthood although these permissions are rarely granted. So you can be a married priest in the Catholic Church. However most priests are celibate as a sacrafice to devote their life to God and Jesus and the Church. It allows them to focus on the important aspects of religous life. Also Bishops are never married.

As for Holy Orthodoxy I see nothing wrong with doing your research and learning more about it. Go to a Divine Liturgy ask questions. However as a Catholic I would not recommend joining them. Although I believe salvation is obtainable through them with their valid orders and apostolic succession and valid sacraments I would not recommend leaving your church. To do so is schism. What works for them does not work for us as Catholics.They are part of the true church in my eyes however as of now they are sadly not united. Those born and raised orthodox who follow it will obtain salvation as well as those who convert to it from heretical religons. But to leave communion with the Pope is not adviseable I will give you a link with more info about holy orthodoxy. Its a great tradition that has lasted over 2000 years. God bless them. I will also give links about the other apastolic churches. Thank you God bless

Eastern Orthodox
answers.com/topic/eastern-orthodoxy

Oriental Orthodox
orthodoxwiki.org/Oriental_Orthodox

Assyrian Church of the East
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Church_of_the_East

Polish National Catholic Church
pncc.org/who_history.htm

First, thank you for the links. I have some reading to do now. I know that kissing the Pope’s ring is a sign of reverence/respect but I have issues with one man being so powerful within a religious setting. That is God’s place. I often wonder when the Pope makes a decision for the church what God is thinking. I know I’m not explaining myself very well. I also have a question about the Anglican church of England. Is that included in the group as some of their practices, ie: Sing of The Cross, genuflecting, are Catholic. I also read about Anglo-Catholics in England and have no idea who they are.

Again, thanks!

Kathy

 

[djkane01220]

I also have a question about the Anglican church of England. Is that included in the group as some of their practices, ie: Sing of The Cross, genuflecting, are Catholic. I also read about Anglo-Catholics in England and have no idea who they are.

Again, thanks!

Kathy

No The Church of England broke away because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce. The Pope told him no so he started his own church. The Anglician Church also known as Episcopalian It hold no valid orders. It is similer to the Catholic Church in many ways but nothing that happens there is valid. It is thought by some Catholics that some Lutheran Churches hold valid Apostolic Succession but this is up for debate.

 

[aloneinjax]

The pope is not “one man in charge of a very large Christian denomination” (by the way the Church of Christ is not a Christian denomination), i.e., he is a leader not a dictator. Moreover, what rules are you referring to? And priests not being able to marry (in the latin rite) is a discipline not a dogma of the church therefore it is liable to change.

You don’t feel the problems the Catholic church is facing now is because Rome covered up the problems of sexual abuse? First here and now Ireland is under a big scandal. Many churches and schools have been closed due to lack of funds and I am wondering if this is due to the monies the church has had to pay out. I don’t understand my own self and why this is bothering me. I love the Mass and always have and often think back to attending church with my family and how much it meant to all of us. The rules for birth control, having marriages anulled, and, yes, Priests being allowed to marry. I guess I don’t understand the fact that Priests in the seminary have to be celibate whether they are widowed or divorces but a married Anglican or whatever religion can join the seminary even if they are already married. That just doesn’t make sense.

Kathy

 

[Hesychios]

No The Church of England broke away because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce.

Actually what he wanted was an annulment. Had he lived in the 21st century like we do, he might have gotten it.

But in those days, Catherine was very well connected politically. She was the niece of the “Holy” Roman Emperor, whom had already sacked Rome with his Catholic and Lutheran soldiers for other reasons and had held the Pope captive for a while. Not wishing to antagonize this man, the Pope did the right thing by denying the request for nullity.

I believe that all the Catholic bishops except Fisher accepted the Act of Supremacy. This put the Church of England in schism with the Pope, but they did not officially believe anything different than what was taught by the rest of the Catholic church (it should be remembered that Papal Universal Jurisdiction and Papal Infallibility were not declared dogmas until 1870, over 300 years later).

The final break came much later, after the Calvinists gained much more influence in the English church. Pope Pius V excommunicated queen Elizabeth I (something unnecessary if she was in fact already outside the church) and ‘deposed’ her in 1570AD, 35 years after king Henry’s Act of Supremacy. The Pope threatened any Catholics who obeyed their queen with excommunication as well.

*4. And moreover (we declare) her to be deprived of her pretended title to the aforesaid crown and of all lordship, dignity and privilege whatsoever.

1. And also (declare) the nobles, subjects and people of the said realm and all others who have in any way sworn oaths to her, to be forever absolved from such an oath and from any duty arising from lordshop. fealty and obedience; and we do, by authority of these presents , so absolve them and so deprive the same Elizabeth of her pretended title to the crown and all other the above said matters. We charge and command all and singular the nobles, subjects, peoples and others afore said that they do not dare obey her orders, mandates and laws. Those who shall act to the contrary we include in the like sentence of excommunication*

This of course split the Catholic-leaning faction of the church in that country, making any remaining Papal supporting Catholics in England traitors under the law and in danger of arrest.

 

[prodromos]

Christ is Risen!

moreover, the Pope had to ratify all conciliar decisions, i.e., without his approval it could not pass as dogma or church law.

The other patriarchates must have missed the memo. There have been several times where conciliar decisions have been accepted by the rest of the Church without waiting for the Pope’s approval. Indeed, some were accepted by the rest of the Church despite the Pope refusing to give approval.

John

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother John,

Christ is Risen!
The other patriarchates must have missed the memo. There have been several times where conciliar decisions have been accepted by the rest of the Church without waiting for the Pope’s approval. Indeed, some were accepted by the rest of the Church despite the Pope refusing to give approval.

Which ones were those?

Blessings

 

[mardukm]

Dear aloneinjax,

You don’t feel the problems the Catholic church is facing now is because Rome covered up the problems of sexual abuse?

You’ve got a lot to learn about the concept of hierarchy.

First here and now Ireland is under a big scandal.

And how is this Rome’s fault?

Many churches and schools have been closed due to lack of funds and I am wondering if this is due to the monies the church has had to pay out.

I believe that was the case in Boston. If there are Church closings anywhere else, it is due to the economic slump of the past 2 years.

The rules for birth control

What of it?

having marriages anulled,

So if a person was forced into a marriage (for whatever reason), you feel that’s still a valid marriage?

Priests being allowed to marry. I guess I don’t understand the fact that Priests in the seminary have to be celibate whether they are widowed or divorces but a married Anglican or whatever religion can join the seminary even if they are already married. That just doesn’t make sense.

That a man cannot marry after he joins the priesthood is a universal canon of all the apostolic Churches, not just the Catholic Church.

Blessings,
Marduk.

Kathy

 

[aloneinjax]

No The Church of England broke away because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce. The Pope told him no so he started his own church. The Anglician Church also known as Episcopalian It hold no valid orders. It is similer to the Catholic Church in many ways but nothing that happens there is valid. It is thought by some Catholics that some Lutheran Churches hold valid Apostolic Succession but this is up for debate.

Ah, yes! I remember now about Henry VIII starting his own religion because he wanted a divorce to marry another because he wanted a male heir. Isn’t the Bishop of Canterbury head of their church over in England?

 

[aloneinjax]

Dear aloneinjax,

You’ve got a lot to learn about the concept of hierarchy.

And how is this Rome’s fault?

I believe that was the case in Boston. If there are Church closings anywhere else, it is due to the economic slump of the past 2 years.

What of it?

So if a person was forced into a marriage (for whatever reason), you feel that’s still a valid marriage?

That a man cannot marry after he joins the priesthood is a universal canon of all the apostolic Churches, not just the Catholic Church.

Blessings,
Marduk.

Kathy

What it is I need to know about the heirachy in the church? You don’t think Rome knew of the abuse allegations and advised to simply move the priests elsewhere? No, I wasn’t talking about ‘valid’ marriages. I was referring to the fact that to marry, again, in the Catholic church, Rome has to grant an anullment.

It is a sad fact that for many years now, even before the economic slump, Catholic churches and schools have been closing or consolidating due to lack of students and/or parishioners. Also, from where I grew up in the midwest, there are very few convents left. I still have very strong Catholic beliefs so am not putting down my own religion with the questions I am asking. My Mom’s first cousin is a nun and we used to go to the different convents she was at to visit. Time sure has changed many things.

Kathy