Eastern Orthodox and the Mortal vs. Venial sin quandry

[gurneyhalleck1]

In Catholicism, there is the notion of mortal vs. venial sin. When one commits a mortal sin, it makes an individual ineligible to go to Communion. The catechism makes it clear what constitutes a mortal sin. The person then goes to confession.

In Orthodoxy, there isn’t that hard definition of mortal sin, etc. As a newbie studying Orthodoxy, I’d love to know from Orthodox in here, preferably EO’s, how do you know when or when not to go to confession. I would think, and this is my assumption (so it can be wrong!!!), that in the end, won’t the Orthodox Christian end up evaluating his/her sins almost like a Catholic when it comes to the criteria that the CC gives in the catechism? What is the thought process as to when to go to confession and how does an Orthodox know?

I’d love everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and thinking on this. Thanks!

 

[dcointin]

Generally we don’t make distinctions between “mortal” and “venial” sins. All sins, whether major or minor, serve the same purpose, which is to harden our hearts against love of God and each other, and as such need to be treated seriously. We are encouraged to go to confession a minimum of twice each year during the fast before Nativity and Lent, but may go any time we feel the weight of a particular sin on our conscience or are in need of spiritual counseling. I have personally never been told by a priest to obstain from the Eucharist if I sinned in a particular way, but I don’t know if that’s just my experience. We emphasize that the Eucharist is the “medicine of immortality” for the “healing of soul and body”, and so it’s the solution to our spiritual problems, not something to partake of only when we feel sufficiently holy. We are encouraged to prepare ourselves for it though with prayer and fasting, particularly with Vespers the night before and Orthros just before, and reciting the pre-communion prayers.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

The Melkite Greek Catholics (and Eastern Catholics of the Byzantine tradition in general) hold the same view as that described above by our friend and brother, Don. The Catholic tradition, therefore, isn’t as rigid in the mortal vs. venial sin thing as many think. This is primarily a development of the Latin West that came about thanks the the Jesuits. I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad development, but it’s certainly not a universal development in the Catholic Church, only in the Roman tradition.

 

[Mickey]

I’d love to know from Orthodox in here, preferably EO’s, how do you know when or when not to go to confession.

Every Orthodox Christian is encouraged to find a good spiritual father. He will also (usually) be your confessor. He will let you know how often you should receive the sacrament of Holy Confession. You can also meet with him about other subjects pertaining to spiritual guidance.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Generally we don’t make distinctions between “mortal” and “venial” sins. All sins, whether major or minor, serve the same purpose, which is to harden our hearts against love of God and each other, and as such need to be treated seriously. We are encouraged to go to confession a minimum of twice each year during the fast before Nativity and Lent, but may go any time we feel the weight of a particular sin on our conscience or are in need of spiritual counseling. I have personally never been told by a priest to obstain from the Eucharist if I sinned in a particular way, but I don’t know if that’s just my experience. We emphasize that the Eucharist is the “medicine of immortality” for the “healing of soul and body”, and so it’s the solution to our spiritual problems, not something to partake of only when we feel sufficiently holy. We are encouraged to prepare ourselves for it though with prayer and fasting, particularly with Vespers the night before and Orthros just before, and reciting the pre-communion prayers.

Thanks for that explaination. Less rigid, but taking sin very very seriously. I like that. Somehow that connects with me.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Generally we don’t make distinctions between “mortal” and “venial” sins. All sins, whether major or minor, serve the same purpose, which is to harden our hearts against love of God and each other, and as such need to be treated seriously. We are encouraged to go to confession a minimum of twice each year during the fast before Nativity and Lent, but may go any time we feel the weight of a particular sin on our conscience or are in need of spiritual counseling. ** I have personally never been told by a priest to obstain from the Eucharist if I sinned in a particular way, but I don’t know if that’s just my experience. We emphasize that the Eucharist is the “medicine of immortality” for the “healing of soul and body”, and so it’s the solution to our spiritual problems, not something to partake of only when we feel sufficiently holy**. We are encouraged to prepare ourselves for it though with prayer and fasting, particularly with Vespers the night before and Orthros just before, and reciting the pre-communion prayers.

Thank you for your explanation. The part which I put in bold font is interesting to me. Does the Orthodox Church teach that it’s alright to receive the Eucharist while having unconfessed sins on one’s conscience? If so, does this have to do with any particular difference in the Orthodox understanding of the Sacrament of either Confession or the Eucharist?

 

[dzheremi]

That explanation more or less squares with what I was told by a cradle Coptic Orthodox friend of mine a month or two ago when the subject of confession came up. I was kind of surprised that they did not have some sort of introductory word or phrase (no “bless me, father, for I have sinned”, though she said she really liked that), but she was even more surprised that Catholics would voluntarily abstain from communion if they had not been able to confess beforehand. As far as I can remember, her reasoning was that communion is so important, what on earth could we possibly think would do more for us? I have to admit, that was one of those moments where I spent a few minutes trying to come up with a decent reply that would encapsulate western objections before I realized that they actually seemed pretty lame in the face of such an enormously simple and yet profound approach to the sacrament.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Dzheremi,

but she was even more surprised that Catholics would voluntarily abstain from communion if they had not been able to confess beforehand. As far as I can remember, her reasoning was that communion is so important, what on earth could we possibly think would do more for us? I have to admit, that was one of those moments where I spent a few minutes trying to come up with a decent reply that would encapsulate western objections before I realized that they actually seemed pretty lame in the face of such an enormously simple and yet profound approach to the sacrament.

Those are strange reactions from your friend. Perhaps her bishop has a different policy, but growing up in the COC, we were expected to confess at least once a month. If a priest realizes that you have been lax in going to confession, he can restrict you from communion. And one is definitely not supposed to receive communion if one has unconfessed sin on your conscience - your friend obviously displayed a great love for the Eucharist, but not, it seems, a comparable appreciation for its utter holiness (but perhaps she misunderstood you). Further, abstaining from communion is an acceptable form of penance in the COC.

In any case, there is nothing substantially different between confession in the COC from confession in the LCC (except the form of absolution, which is the same in the Eastern Churches).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Mickey]

In any case, there is nothing substantially different between confession in the COC from confession in the LCC .

I found the RC confession to be very rigid and formal–enumerating sins–with an option of remaining anonymous.

 

[mardukm]

I found the RC confession to be very rigid and formal–enumerating sins–with an option of remaining anonymous.

Using “rigid” and “option” in the same sentence.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Anna_Scott]

In Catholicism, there is the notion of mortal vs. venial sin. When one commits a mortal sin, it makes an individual ineligible to go to Communion. The catechism makes it clear what constitutes a mortal sin. The person then goes to confession.

In Orthodoxy, there isn’t that hard definition of mortal sin, etc. As a newbie studying Orthodoxy, I’d love to know from Orthodox in here, preferably EO’s, how do you know when or when not to go to confession. I would think, and this is my assumption (so it can be wrong!!!), that in the end, won’t the Orthodox Christian end up evaluating his/her sins almost like a Catholic when it comes to the criteria that the CC gives in the catechism? What is the thought process as to when to go to confession and how does an Orthodox know?

I’d love everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and thinking on this. Thanks!

Gurney,

Very interesting answers so far.

I was just wondering what role private confession of sin to Christ, in prayer, plays in preparing for Communion. In the Orthodox view, does one need Absolution from a Priest to be forgiven?
Anna

 

[GaryTaylor]

I remember when you had to go to confession for venial sins. So basically it was a practice of weekly confession. Thats another V-II change.

Regardless as someone mentioned above about the idea of finding a good spiritual advisor, I agree, I go to completely different church for confesssion simply because I really feel we have a much better line of communication.

GT

 

[mardukm]

Generally we don’t make distinctions between “mortal” and “venial” sins. All sins, whether major or minor, serve the same purpose, which is to harden our hearts against love of God and each other, and as such need to be treated seriously. We are encouraged to go to confession a minimum of twice each year during the fast before Nativity and Lent, but may go any time we feel the weight of a particular sin on our conscience or are in need of spiritual counseling. I have personally never been told by a priest to obstain from the Eucharist if I sinned in a particular way, but I don’t know if that’s just my experience. We emphasize that the Eucharist is the “medicine of immortality” for the “healing of soul and body”, and so it’s the solution to our spiritual problems, not something to partake of only when we feel sufficiently holy. We are encouraged to prepare ourselves for it though with prayer and fasting, particularly with Vespers the night before and Orthros just before, and reciting the pre-communion prayers.

Are you sure about this? I thought I’ve read from others here that one normally goes to confession right before DL in the Eastern Tradition. Are you absolutely positive you are allowed to receive the Body and Blood with unconfessed sin in your heart? That doesn’t seem to square with our Lord’s exhortation about approaching the altar with a clean conscience, or St. Paul’s exhortation in Scripture about approaching the Body and Blood worthily. Forgive me if it seems like I am disparaging your Eastern Tradition. I don’t intend to. I am genuinely puzzled. May I ask what patristic or scriptural warrant your Tradition uses to permit receiving the Eucharist even while having unconfessed sin in your heart? If that’s not what you were saying, forgive me for misinterpreting.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[wisdomseeker]

Generally we don’t make distinctions between “mortal” and “venial” sins. All sins, whether major or minor, serve the same purpose, which is to harden our hearts against love of God and each other, and as such need to be treated seriously. We are encouraged to go to confession a minimum of twice each year during the fast before Nativity and Lent, but may go any time we feel the weight of a particular sin on our conscience or are in need of spiritual counseling. I have personally never been told by a priest to obstain from the Eucharist if I sinned in a particular way, but I don’t know if that’s just my experience. We emphasize that the Eucharist is the “medicine of immortality” for the “healing of soul and body”, and so it’s the solution to our spiritual problems, not something to partake of only when we feel sufficiently holy. We are encouraged to prepare ourselves for it though with prayer and fasting, particularly with Vespers the night before and Orthros just before, and reciting the pre-communion prayers.

But in Sacred Scriptures there is a difference. You cant simply equate stealing of chocolate bar from the store with someone who raped and kiled a child. can you?

 

[mardukm]

I remember when you had to go to confession for venial sins. So basically it was a practice of weekly confession. Thats another V-II change.

Regardless as someone mentioned above about the idea of finding a good spiritual advisor, I agree, I go to completely different church for confesssion simply because I really feel we have a much better line of communication.

In the COC, I was expected to confess every jot and tittle of anything that weighed on my conscience. When I was younger, we were taught to write it down on paper, and bring the paper with us to confession. It was comforting to me actually. I remember when I went to confession to a Latin Rite priest, and I didn’t know that in the Latin Rite only “mortal sins” are necessary to be confessed (basically sins against the 10 commandments, and a few other things, IIRC) to a priest. I remember getting some stares from the people waiting in line. I must hand it to that Latin-Rite priest, though, for putting up with what he must have thought was an extreme case of scrupulosity.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[GaryTaylor]

Are you sure about this? I thought I’ve read from others here that one normally goes to confession right before DL in the Eastern Tradition. Are you absolutely positive you are allowed to receive the Body and Blood with unconfessed sin in your heart? That doesn’t seem to square with our Lord’s exhortation about approaching the altar with a clean conscience, or St. Paul’s exhortation in Scripture about approaching the Body and Blood worthily. Forgive me if it seems like I am disparaging your Eastern Tradition. I don’t intend to. I am genuinely puzzled. May I ask what patristic or scriptural warrant your Tradition uses to permit receiving the Eucharist even while having unconfessed sin in your heart? If that’s not what you were saying, forgive me for misinterpreting.

Blessings,
Marduk

Matter of fact its a complete contradiction. There is no such thing as Receiving Communion when not in a complete State of Grace. It in itself is a Mortal Sin.

You know who speaks in depth on this is Teresa of Avila. But maybe the EO see’s it different but I find this very hard to believe. And am convinced its incorrect as Marduk is.

God Bless, Gary

 

[mardukm]

But in Sacred Scriptures there is a difference. You cant simply equate stealing of chocolate bar from the store with someone who raped and kiled a child. can you?

Isn’t mortal sin defined as a sin against the ten commandments in the Latin CC? Shouldn’t stealing be confessed, just as much as murder?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Matter of fact its a complete contradiction. There is no such thing as Receiving Communion when not in a complete State of Grace. It in itself is a Mortal Sin.

You know who speaks in depth on this is Teresa of Avila. But maybe the EO see’s it different but I find this very hard to believe. And am convinced its incorrect as Marduk is.

God Bless, Gary

I was just thinking about this a bit more, and I must admit I am more than puzzled. I am actually shocked.

I will have to inquire about this at the ECF.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Harpazo]

I was just thinking about this a bit more, and I must admit I am more than puzzled. I am actually shocked.

I will have to inquire about this at the ECF.

Blessings,
Marduk

If what you think he said were true, then you should be appalled. But he’s not saying what you thought he said. Look a little closer. He is talking about in context of confession, not forgoing it altogether. And I have experienced similar. I have never had a priest in confession tell me that anything I did warranted being barred from communion, but I’m sure there are some sins that would. I have been proscribed penance once or twice, but never told not to approach the Chalice. It’s far more pastoral than you might realize. We aren’t “theologically legalistic” as you might like to think.

There are things that would prevent someone from receiving, such as not confessing or not fasting during the week and/or the 12 hour pre-communion fast, willfully being unprepared, etc.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[RyanBlack]

Are you sure about this? I thought I’ve read from others here that one normally goes to confession right before DL in the Eastern Tradition. Are you absolutely positive you are allowed to receive the Body and Blood with unconfessed sin in your heart? That doesn’t seem to square with our Lord’s exhortation about approaching the altar with a clean conscience, or St. Paul’s exhortation in Scripture about approaching the Body and Blood worthily. Forgive me if it seems like I am disparaging your Eastern Tradition. I don’t intend to. I am genuinely puzzled. May I ask what patristic or scriptural warrant your Tradition uses to permit receiving the Eucharist even while having unconfessed sin in your heart? If that’s not what you were saying, forgive me for misinterpreting.

Blessings,
Marduk

I suppose one could make the argument that, from the Byzantine perspective, one is forgiven of all sins (both mortal and venial, using the Western categories) in receiving communion. In the prayers just before communion, we pray, “O Lord, I also believe and profess that this which I am about to receive is truly your most precious body, and your life-giving blood, which I pray, make me worthy to receive for the remission of all my sins and for life everlasting. Amen.” However, it has been my experience that most Byzantine Churches teach that one should be properly disposed before receiving communion. Being properly disposed involves having fasted and having confessed grave sins.